Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anything around their envy or jealousy or desire to hurt someone....they are likely more unconscious about. (Though not always). They have stirrings about those affects but they don't really own them or understand them deeply and may tgerefore project it outward, that you are the one with the problem. They have fragile egos and resort to immature defenses (denial, projection) when confronted.

This. Everyone else is the problem.

Yes. This they believe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anything around their envy or jealousy or desire to hurt someone....they are likely more unconscious about. (Though not always). They have stirrings about those affects but they don't really own them or understand them deeply and may tgerefore project it outward, that you are the one with the problem. They have fragile egos and resort to immature defenses (denial, projection) when confronted.

Don't forget silent treatment and triangulation!

💯

Very intense love bombing in the beginning. Gradually become disillusioned with you and begin to denigrate you in preparation for the discard.

They can become combative and defensive/aggressive or weak, teary, victimized. Both are defensive and attempts to protect the ego under confrontation. Neither position is higher level, which would involve listening, curiosity and empathy about how they impacted you, and then if appropriate an apology or effort to repair. You see how the first behaviors keep the focus on themselves, there's no real shift to a place of "how can we hear each other and work this out?" Narc's retreat to defending the fragile ego.

As if the excuses make anything different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well if they're like my mom (I'm a woman), everything has to revolve around her, and she tries to turn any event - someone else's wedding, or funeral - into her show. Doesn't know how to listen to someone else's troubles without trying to "win" it with her own story, interrupts, doesn't listen, only talks about herself. As a child, I was supposed to be her accessory and give her bragging rights, but couldn't ever complain about her. If I did complain, it turned into a vicious vitriolic attack against my whole life. For example, I was told I was a bad baby. My mother is the "church lady" and has been a Sunday School teacher for decades.

Narcissists can be men or women.

That sounds self centered or too talkative or anxious.

Narcs are way more calculating and manipulative, and in a sweet way, then you don’t know what hit you. Then they gaslight you and walk off. The hidden agendas. Over and over

Question: do they know that they're calculating and manipulative or are these behaviors a kind of defense mechanism due to their inner deficits? I can see both possibilities. I am never sure how much they know what they're doing and how much is unconscious behavior. Or are there different types/spectrums of behavior?

I’ve never figured this out for men or women. I’d like to think it is compulsive/ defense mechanism and not conscious but…….

Me too but how they do reconcile it when caught in a lie and yet still won’t admit it. It’s bizarre.

Exactly! They double down and lie or make excuses or blame.
It’s like they were never taught to apologize, vow to do better next time and everyone moves on. No permanent damage.

Crazy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well if they're like my mom (I'm a woman), everything has to revolve around her, and she tries to turn any event - someone else's wedding, or funeral - into her show. Doesn't know how to listen to someone else's troubles without trying to "win" it with her own story, interrupts, doesn't listen, only talks about herself. As a child, I was supposed to be her accessory and give her bragging rights, but couldn't ever complain about her. If I did complain, it turned into a vicious vitriolic attack against my whole life. For example, I was told I was a bad baby. My mother is the "church lady" and has been a Sunday School teacher for decades.

Narcissists can be men or women.

That sounds self centered or too talkative or anxious.

Narcs are way more calculating and manipulative, and in a sweet way, then you don’t know what hit you. Then they gaslight you and walk off. The hidden agendas. Over and over

Question: do they know that they're calculating and manipulative or are these behaviors a kind of defense mechanism due to their inner deficits? I can see both possibilities. I am never sure how much they know what they're doing and how much is unconscious behavior. Or are there different types/spectrums of behavior?

Yes they know. They’ll sweet talk you down to get their way.

I have an aspergers spouse who has zero empathy and gaslights but can’t remember stuff. But most of the time you see it’s stemming from cluelessness not malice like from a narcissist.

Anonymous wrote:Anything around their envy or jealousy or desire to hurt someone....they are likely more unconscious about. (Though not always). They have stirrings about those affects but they don't really own them or understand them deeply and may tgerefore project it outward, that you are the one with the problem. They have fragile egos and resort to immature defenses (denial, projection) when confronted.

This. Everyone else is the problem.

Anonymous wrote:Anything around their envy or jealousy or desire to hurt someone....they are likely more unconscious about. (Though not always). They have stirrings about those affects but they don't really own them or understand them deeply and may tgerefore project it outward, that you are the one with the problem. They have fragile egos and resort to immature defenses (denial, projection) when confronted.

Don't forget silent treatment and triangulation!

Anything around their envy or jealousy or desire to hurt someone....they are likely more unconscious about. (Though not always). They have stirrings about those affects but they don't really own them or understand them deeply and may tgerefore project it outward, that you are the one with the problem. They have fragile egos and resort to immature defenses (denial, projection) when confronted.

They also make big messes due to a lack of empathy. They know they're cold inside...they don't care.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well if they're like my mom (I'm a woman), everything has to revolve around her, and she tries to turn any event - someone else's wedding, or funeral - into her show. Doesn't know how to listen to someone else's troubles without trying to "win" it with her own story, interrupts, doesn't listen, only talks about herself. As a child, I was supposed to be her accessory and give her bragging rights, but couldn't ever complain about her. If I did complain, it turned into a vicious vitriolic attack against my whole life. For example, I was told I was a bad baby. My mother is the "church lady" and has been a Sunday School teacher for decades.

Narcissists can be men or women.

That sounds self centered or too talkative or anxious.

Narcs are way more calculating and manipulative, and in a sweet way, then you don’t know what hit you. Then they gaslight you and walk off. The hidden agendas. Over and over

Question: do they know that they're calculating and manipulative or are these behaviors a kind of defense mechanism due to their inner deficits? I can see both possibilities. I am never sure how much they know what they're doing and how much is unconscious behavior. Or are there different types/spectrums of behavior?

I’ve never figured this out for men or women. I’d like to think it is compulsive/ defense mechanism and not conscious but…….

Me too but how they do reconcile it when caught in a lie and yet still won’t admit it. It’s bizarre.

I think the level of consciousness can vary. The manipulative behavior is not thought of in those terms in their own mind. They might feel they're "just calling a spade a spade" or "being honest. " My sister for example when she tries to guilt me about an issue that's not her business ("you should do this" and I say basically "stay in your own lane" (none of your business)she will say, "I'll speak my mind, how dare you tell me otherwise?" She's offended in other words, she does not comprehend that something has nothing to do with her and she's stirring a pot and trying to influence and manipulate around something that has nothing to do with her but she feels ENTITLED to chime in. Entitlement is another narc defense, which is why socially they make big messes. The denying it when confronted....that's likely more conscious and an effort to save face.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well if they're like my mom (I'm a woman), everything has to revolve around her, and she tries to turn any event - someone else's wedding, or funeral - into her show. Doesn't know how to listen to someone else's troubles without trying to "win" it with her own story, interrupts, doesn't listen, only talks about herself. As a child, I was supposed to be her accessory and give her bragging rights, but couldn't ever complain about her. If I did complain, it turned into a vicious vitriolic attack against my whole life. For example, I was told I was a bad baby. My mother is the "church lady" and has been a Sunday School teacher for decades.

Narcissists can be men or women.

That sounds self centered or too talkative or anxious.

Narcs are way more calculating and manipulative, and in a sweet way, then you don’t know what hit you. Then they gaslight you and walk off. The hidden agendas. Over and over

Question: do they know that they're calculating and manipulative or are these behaviors a kind of defense mechanism due to their inner deficits? I can see both possibilities. I am never sure how much they know what they're doing and how much is unconscious behavior. Or are there different types/spectrums of behavior?

I’ve never figured this out for men or women. I’d like to think it is compulsive/ defense mechanism and not conscious but…….

Me too but how they do reconcile it when caught in a lie and yet still won’t admit it. It’s bizarre.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well if they're like my mom (I'm a woman), everything has to revolve around her, and she tries to turn any event - someone else's wedding, or funeral - into her show. Doesn't know how to listen to someone else's troubles without trying to "win" it with her own story, interrupts, doesn't listen, only talks about herself. As a child, I was supposed to be her accessory and give her bragging rights, but couldn't ever complain about her. If I did complain, it turned into a vicious vitriolic attack against my whole life. For example, I was told I was a bad baby. My mother is the "church lady" and has been a Sunday School teacher for decades.

Narcissists can be men or women.

That sounds self centered or too talkative or anxious.

Narcs are way more calculating and manipulative, and in a sweet way, then you don’t know what hit you. Then they gaslight you and walk off. The hidden agendas. Over and over

Question: do they know that they're calculating and manipulative or are these behaviors a kind of defense mechanism due to their inner deficits? I can see both possibilities. I am never sure how much they know what they're doing and how much is unconscious behavior. Or are there different types/spectrums of behavior?

I’ve never figured this out for men or women. I’d like to think it is compulsive/ defense mechanism and not conscious but…….

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well if they're like my mom (I'm a woman), everything has to revolve around her, and she tries to turn any event - someone else's wedding, or funeral - into her show. Doesn't know how to listen to someone else's troubles without trying to "win" it with her own story, interrupts, doesn't listen, only talks about herself. As a child, I was supposed to be her accessory and give her bragging rights, but couldn't ever complain about her. If I did complain, it turned into a vicious vitriolic attack against my whole life. For example, I was told I was a bad baby. My mother is the "church lady" and has been a Sunday School teacher for decades.

Narcissists can be men or women.

That sounds self centered or too talkative or anxious.

Narcs are way more calculating and manipulative, and in a sweet way, then you don’t know what hit you. Then they gaslight you and walk off. The hidden agendas. Over and over

Question: do they know that they're calculating and manipulative or are these behaviors a kind of defense mechanism due to their inner deficits? I can see both possibilities. I am never sure how much they know what they're doing and how much is unconscious behavior. Or are there different types/spectrums of behavior?