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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Shirt pulling, shoving, hard contact, and just physical play should be considered gamesmanship.  Trying to intentionally injure someone or cleating someone would be considered dirty in my book.

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Absolutely ALL those examples are NOT soccer.

What are you American folks doing to the sport?[/quote]

Shirt pulling and shoving are against the laws of the game and are therefore “dirty.” Hard contact and physical play are not dirty. Have you ever played soccer or watched a professional or international match?  You must be kidding. Soccer is a physical, athletic, competitve sport. Thinking it is all about fancy foot skills and passing and movement off the ball is naive. Those are all very important, but so is the physicality of the game. Seriously, please watch a UEFA or South American game. Please. [/quote]

You may want to watch a little more closely to the pros you referenced.  Shirt pulling, tripping, shoving are accepted ways of playing, it's only illegal when a foul is called.  Just the nature of the game.  [/quote]

I watch it closely and have played at many levels.  Yes, shirt pulling, tripping, and shoving are accepted ways of playing, but something can still be "dirty" (i.e. against the rules) but still be practiced in common.  Also, it is illegal if it against the rules, not only if you get caught.  Just because no foul is called doesn't mean it isn't illegal or dirty., but we could argue that one forever.

I had two points.  1) To the dumb, gentle soul poster talking about American folks ruining the sport, I was pointing out that hard contact and physical play is hardly "dirty".  It is in fact, indicative of a good player and a good competitor.  2) I was calling shirt pulling and shoving "dirty".  Just like holding in football or pushing for a rebound in basketball, or throwing an inside pitch in baseball.  It is all "dirty", but widely practiced and accepted. I personally have no issue with it, and trust that most referees will eventual call it, or if someone is doing it to me (or my kid) a little quid pro quo will usually do the trick.  In other words, a little dirty play is ok as long as you're not trying to injure someone and are willing to accept the risk of having a foul called when caught and don't cry like a little baby when the ref. does catch it.[/quote]

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