Anonymous
03/18/2019 15:11
Subject: Playing “dirty”?
SNOWFLAKES need not return.
Anonymous
03/18/2019 15:07
Subject: Playing “dirty”?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Shirt pulling, shoving, hard contact, and just physical play should be considered gamesmanship. Trying to intentionally injure someone or cleating someone would be considered dirty in my book.
Absolutely ALL those examples are NOT soccer.
What are you American folks doing to the sport?
Yes, true soccer is highlighted by players falling in writhing pain like they've suffered a gunshot wound.
This should only happen when an opposing player has made challenge and came within yard or two of the player.
Just want the euros and south americans for examples...
You aren't watching closely. If you can watch a player like Messi and not see people pulling him down by his shirt, bear hugging and taking him to the ground---you need your eyes checked.
I probably do need my eyes checked because I've seen Neymar go down like he was hit by a truck only to get back up and start running if he doesn't get the call.
I have watched several EPL, La Liga and Champion League games in person---and someone is continually getting grabbed, shoved, shirt pulled in the back to take them down, and ref misses a lot of it. It is very physical. Yes, you get some dramatics---but the game is rough and seeing it in front of you at the intensely high speed they play at is much different than the long shot on your TV screen---but even then I always see the fouls, shirt pulls, etc. How can you not?
Anonymous
03/18/2019 13:15
Subject: Re:Playing “dirty”?
They don't teach American kids to use their hands. Every European trainer or camp we've been to has always told my boys to use their hands more so they can feel the players around them. IF you are defending, you should be making contact with the player you are marking. Watch the pros, they are always touching. IF you are on offense, it helps so you can feel if someone is behind you. You also should be dribbling with arms out to create space around you and the ball. The opposing players can't get in close.
Some American parents are under the disillusion that there should be almost no physical contact at all. Leaning in with the shoulder is also legal. Slide tackling (not from the back) and getting 'all ball' is also legal and necessary at times.
I have seen a kid make a good, clean hard tackle and the opposing player falls and parents start crying and screaming on the sideline that it was 'dirty'. I think there are a lot of misconceptions.
As the kids get older, dangerous play can cause injuries that can be long-lasting and 'play-ending'. Very dirty players that are going after knees and ankles from behind, stomping on toes, etc and the ref isn't calling any of it---need to be taken care of. The only way to avoid having them seriously injuring you or a teammate is to take this dirty player out as hard as possible when the ref isn't looking. He/she will either need to come out of the game or will be scared to go near you again.
My dad always taught us (girl and boy siblings) that if a player is continually fouling you, get them when the ref isn't looking because if they think you are going to take it the entire game, they are going to keep doing it. It is so true.
Some American parents are under the disillusion that there should be almost no physical contact at all. Leaning in with the shoulder is also legal. Slide tackling (not from the back) and getting 'all ball' is also legal and necessary at times.
I have seen a kid make a good, clean hard tackle and the opposing player falls and parents start crying and screaming on the sideline that it was 'dirty'. I think there are a lot of misconceptions.
As the kids get older, dangerous play can cause injuries that can be long-lasting and 'play-ending'. Very dirty players that are going after knees and ankles from behind, stomping on toes, etc and the ref isn't calling any of it---need to be taken care of. The only way to avoid having them seriously injuring you or a teammate is to take this dirty player out as hard as possible when the ref isn't looking. He/she will either need to come out of the game or will be scared to go near you again.
My dad always taught us (girl and boy siblings) that if a player is continually fouling you, get them when the ref isn't looking because if they think you are going to take it the entire game, they are going to keep doing it. It is so true.
Anonymous
03/18/2019 13:10
Subject: Playing “dirty”?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Shirt pulling, shoving, hard contact, and just physical play should be considered gamesmanship. Trying to intentionally injure someone or cleating someone would be considered dirty in my book.
Absolutely ALL those examples are NOT soccer.
What are you American folks doing to the sport?
Shirt pulling and shoving are against the laws of the game and are therefore “dirty.” Hard contact and physical play are not dirty. Have you ever played soccer or watched a professional or international match? You must be kidding. Soccer is a physical, athletic, competitve sport. Thinking it is all about fancy foot skills and passing and movement off the ball is naive. Those are all very important, but so is the physicality of the game. Seriously, please watch a UEFA or South American game. Please.
You may want to watch a little more closely to the pros you referenced. Shirt pulling, tripping, shoving are accepted ways of playing, it's only illegal when a foul is called. Just the nature of the game.
I watch it closely and have played at many levels. Yes, shirt pulling, tripping, and shoving are accepted ways of playing, but something can still be "dirty" (i.e. against the rules) but still be practiced in common. Also, it is illegal if it against the rules, not only if you get caught. Just because no foul is called doesn't mean it isn't illegal or dirty., but we could argue that one forever.
I had two points. 1) To the dumb, gentle soul poster talking about American folks ruining the sport, I was pointing out that hard contact and physical play is hardly "dirty". It is in fact, indicative of a good player and a good competitor. 2) I was calling shirt pulling and shoving "dirty". Just like holding in football or pushing for a rebound in basketball, or throwing an inside pitch in baseball. It is all "dirty", but widely practiced and accepted. I personally have no issue with it, and trust that most referees will eventual call it, or if someone is doing it to me (or my kid) a little quid pro quo will usually do the trick. In other words, a little dirty play is ok as long as you're not trying to injure someone and are willing to accept the risk of having a foul called when caught and don't cry like a little baby when the ref. does catch it.
Anonymous
03/18/2019 13:06
Subject: Playing “dirty”?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Shirt pulling, shoving, hard contact, and just physical play should be considered gamesmanship. Trying to intentionally injure someone or cleating someone would be considered dirty in my book.
Absolutely ALL those examples are NOT soccer.
What are you American folks doing to the sport?
Yes, true soccer is highlighted by players falling in writhing pain like they've suffered a gunshot wound.
This should only happen when an opposing player has made challenge and came within yard or two of the player.
Just want the euros and south americans for examples...
You aren't watching closely. If you can watch a player like Messi and not see people pulling him down by his shirt, bear hugging and taking him to the ground---you need your eyes checked.
I have watched several EPL, La Liga and Champion League games in person---and someone is continually getting grabbed, shoved, shirt pulled in the back to take them down, and ref misses a lot of it. It is very physical. Yes, you get some dramatics---but the game is rough and seeing it in front of you at the intensely high speed they play at is much different than the long shot on your TV screen---but even then I always see the fouls, shirt pulls, etc. How can you not?
Anonymous
03/18/2019 13:03
Subject: Playing “dirty”?
Anonymous wrote:OP here, I knew I would get opposing opinions on this question because clearly someone is telling these kids to play this way, win at all costs, etc. But if DD doesn't want to engage in shirt pulling, wrist grabbing, etc. and really just want to play clean, beat her opponent purely based on skill and athleticism, what would be your advise to her?
Former elite girl player, play clean. BUT, if playing against a dirty team and you are continually being fouled, yanked, etc., and the ref isn't calling it, you are going to have to step up and show you won't take it--get them back hard.. This is done in a smart way, not blatant when the ref isn't looking. They will be scared to go near you again.
Anonymous
03/18/2019 12:32
Subject: Playing “dirty”?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Shirt pulling, shoving, hard contact, and just physical play should be considered gamesmanship. Trying to intentionally injure someone or cleating someone would be considered dirty in my book.
Absolutely ALL those examples are NOT soccer.
What are you American folks doing to the sport?
I have an exchange student (14) here from Argentina. He filled in at a futsal game last month and said it is much more physical at home.
Anonymous
03/18/2019 11:43
Subject: Playing “dirty”?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Shirt pulling, shoving, hard contact, and just physical play should be considered gamesmanship. Trying to intentionally injure someone or cleating someone would be considered dirty in my book.
Absolutely ALL those examples are NOT soccer.
What are you American folks doing to the sport?
Yes, true soccer is highlighted by players falling in writhing pain like they've suffered a gunshot wound.
This should only happen when an opposing player has made challenge and came within yard or two of the player.
Just want the euros and south americans for examples...
Anonymous
03/18/2019 11:38
Subject: Re:Playing “dirty”?
I just love when they finally get to the age when they stop apologizing for knocking into each other! 
When they are young it's so ingrained to be polite and they get a lot of pushback for being physical. And then at some point around when puberty kicks in, so does the natural aggression, and it's lovely to see them throw off the "nice girl" shackles and give themselves fully physically to the moment and to the game.
Which is totally different from rule-breaking, though I would rather see a yellow for an over-enthusiastic play than a player backing off prematurely.
So my advice would be to play clean, which means no intentional fouls, but also still means being fully physical and going all out. There is a difference between not fouling intentionally and risk-averse playing style that avoids fouls at too high a cost. Muscling a player off the ball, breaking contact, keeping her cool with provoked -- these are ABCs. She should be strong and determined and fierce and learn the psychological side of the game, not give an inch, not physically but also not mentally, either.
When they are young it's so ingrained to be polite and they get a lot of pushback for being physical. And then at some point around when puberty kicks in, so does the natural aggression, and it's lovely to see them throw off the "nice girl" shackles and give themselves fully physically to the moment and to the game.
Which is totally different from rule-breaking, though I would rather see a yellow for an over-enthusiastic play than a player backing off prematurely.
So my advice would be to play clean, which means no intentional fouls, but also still means being fully physical and going all out. There is a difference between not fouling intentionally and risk-averse playing style that avoids fouls at too high a cost. Muscling a player off the ball, breaking contact, keeping her cool with provoked -- these are ABCs. She should be strong and determined and fierce and learn the psychological side of the game, not give an inch, not physically but also not mentally, either.
Anonymous
03/18/2019 11:34
Subject: Playing “dirty”?
Talking trash can be effective since a lot of bullies just cannot control themselves well enough. Teach to to always know where the refs are so that she can provoke opposing players at the right moments. Also ganging up on a bully can be effective.
In general though it is not worth it and I have my super athletic girls focus on tennis and running as a backup since there is no payoff in women's sports besides sheer enjoyment of it.
In general though it is not worth it and I have my super athletic girls focus on tennis and running as a backup since there is no payoff in women's sports besides sheer enjoyment of it.
Anonymous
03/18/2019 10:48
Subject: Playing “dirty”?
My DD elevates her game when it gets physical/dirty/verbal during a match. She has good size and loves to stand up for her teammates. It seems like her adrenaline kicks in and her game goes to the next level.
Anonymous
03/18/2019 10:14
Subject: Playing “dirty”?
I’ve had coaches and parents suggest that I need to talk to my players about and show them how to dive to embellish contact and get calls because they don’t go down and try to play through it. Not a chance.
Anonymous
03/18/2019 10:07
Subject: Playing “dirty”?
Anonymous wrote:OP here, I knew I would get opposing opinions on this question because clearly someone is telling these kids to play this way, win at all costs, etc. But if DD doesn't want to engage in shirt pulling, wrist grabbing, etc. and really just want to play clean, beat her opponent purely based on skill and athleticism, what would be your advise to her?
I would tell her to play a clean game. She doesn’t have to engage with the other players who are not. She can shield herself with her arm and try to get the foul called on the other player.
I saw a girl get a red card this past weekend. I haven’t seen that before.
Anonymous
03/18/2019 10:04
Subject: Playing “dirty”?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Shirt pulling, shoving, hard contact, and just physical play should be considered gamesmanship. Trying to intentionally injure someone or cleating someone would be considered dirty in my book.
Absolutely ALL those examples are NOT soccer.
What are you American folks doing to the sport?
Yeah, you NORTH Americans.
Be more subtle, like in South America:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-40283286
To the OP, there is not a player in the world that is so skilled and athletic as to be unaffected by "dirty" play. I'll say that again: not a player in the world--not Messi, not Neymar, not Ronaldo.
If your DD wants to defend effectively, she'll have to either learn the ways of the Dark Side or find a less competitive level of soccer.
When attacking, there are a few things that can help:
1) Always be in motion, whether on or off the ball. Harder for defenders to get that grip and hide it effectively if a player doesn't stand still.
2) Play the ball quickly. I know, easier said than done.
3) Work on physical strength, primarily balance.
Anonymous
03/18/2019 09:41
Subject: Playing “dirty”?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Shirt pulling, shoving, hard contact, and just physical play should be considered gamesmanship. Trying to intentionally injure someone or cleating someone would be considered dirty in my book.
Absolutely ALL those examples are NOT soccer.
What are you American folks doing to the sport?
Shirt pulling and shoving are against the laws of the game and are therefore “dirty.” Hard contact and physical play are not dirty. Have you ever played soccer or watched a professional or international match? You must be kidding. Soccer is a physical, athletic, competitve sport. Thinking it is all about fancy foot skills and passing and movement off the ball is naive. Those are all very important, but so is the physicality of the game. Seriously, please watch a UEFA or South American game. Please.
You may want to watch a little more closely to the pros you referenced. Shirt pulling, tripping, shoving are accepted ways of playing, it's only illegal when a foul is called. Just the nature of the game.