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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]One can enjoy makeup and understand marketing. [b]If you look back through history, women didn't start using clothes and makeup to look a certain way only after fashion magazines told them to do it. [/b]

If you'd like to see how much fun makeup can be, I suggest you check out some of Kevin Aucoin's books. [/quote]

That's not true.  Women throughout history have conformed to societal ideals of dress and appearance.  Women were doing crazy things in the name of beauty and attracting men long before fashion magazines.

The sad reality is that for much of history, women's primary worth has been viewed as either an object of beauty ("beauty" being defined by the norms of the time/place) and/or a babymaking machine.

I don't care if women wear makeup and spend lots of money to wear supposedly "fashionable" clothes or accessories.  I do think that it's valid to point out that, as far as we have come, these threads and others are proof that our worth and value is still tied up a lot in the two things I mention above (beauty and fertility).  Sure, there are standards for men, but on the whole, throughout history and now, men have had a lot more freedom to define their worth outside of being attractive and/or father material.  An unattractive bachelor still has other avenues of worth (power, prestige, career).  An unattractive single woman can be successful in a career and have power, and she is still hounded about being unattractive (according to norms) and childless/husbandless.

And the standards for men as far as hygiene and maintenance have ALWAYS been significantly less burdensome then the standards for women.  As an ex of mine used to say, "All men have to do every morning is shit, shower, and shave."

I do firmly believe, though, that a lot of the pressure to wear makeup and participate in "fashion" comes from other women, not men.  Just read the forums here about how bent out of shape women get about other women wearing capris.

And the women on here arguing that makeup and fashion are "artistic" expressions are full of it.  Look at the threads on tattoos.  I'm sure the very same women who think their ridiculous beauty regimen of spending an hour or an hour and a half on applying makeup, styling their hair, not to mention the time they spend getting their hair colored or highlighted or whatever, those very same women will demonize women who get tattoos.

If makeup and fashion is your way of expressing yourself, then you shouldn't care how other women decorate their bodies to express themselves.[/quote]

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