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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]i apologize for nitpicking, but isn't the PP who is limiting to the last 75 years the same one who said "where else in the 10,000 years of recorded civilizations ..."?  Actually, perhaps the difference between 75 and 10,000 is more than a nit.  BTW, what recorded civilizations go back 10,000 years???

This is just rhetorical, since the other PP was actually limiting to the past century anyway, so don't feel a need to respond.  The 10,000 exaggeration did not bother me until the fuss over the 75.[/quote]

ugh.  try to follow along dimwit. 10,000 years of history was an exaggeration.  I'm happy to limit it to 3,000.  Is that better?  Over all of recorded history, when one country had hegemonic power (even regionally), they have always been not shy about exercising that power in expanding, conquering and oppressing others.  The examples are countless.  Roman, Greek, Persian, French, British, Mongols, Russian, Saxons, Mayans, Aztec, Incans, etc etc etc.  The USA has been in that category for say the last 75 years, that was the point.  We did not invade Canada in 1952, we invaded Canada in 1812.[/quote]

I would like to point out again that the Roman Empire went 200 years without war.

Also despite China's immense size, I don't think it has expanded its territory in any significant way since 1950, which was just a few short years after the revolution, and the territory it annexed had been part of the former chinese empire.  China's military activity is almost exclusively contained to its own region and the countries which border it.  We can't say the same, that's for sure.  You may not like what they do and why, but when was the last time you saw China drop troops into South America?

I'm not sure how a country in the Western Hemisphere, which puts nuclear weapons in Europe and Asia, can call its military policy restrained.  I'm not sure how a country which invades nations half way around the world is restrained.  In what part of human history has any country felt that its vital interests extended 12,000 miles away from its border?

We are a highly interventionist country.  That's not restraint.[/quote]

if China or the UK or Russia could afford it, they would.  and China will soon be able to afford it, and will be projecting its force wherever they can.  trust me on that.[/quote]

+1
People keep confusing capacity with motivation. Many countries would not hesitate to enslave us if they could. But they can't.[/quote]

Wow, with that belief I guess you can justify anything we do.  So why even bother pretending about restraint?

Have you ever wondered why most embassies in our country have little or no security, while all of our buildings require barricades and bomb proof glass?  You can walk up to the Swedish Embassy and go in.  The last embassy I visited had not even plugged in its metal detector.

Guess what?  No one wants to enslave or destroy those countries.  Their defense is to not make enemies.[/quote]

No their defense is the US, actually. Other countries fear the US when thinking about attacking others.[/quote]

Uh, they seem to attack us with some frequency.  So that logic is out the window.[/quote]

The frequency is much lower than it would otherwise be. Also US allies are much less likely to be attacked.[/quote]

Now you are just stating your political belief.  You can't say that we would be attacked more if we stayed out of the Middle East.  Every indication is that they attack us for our support of Israel, our occupation of Lebanon, our military presence in the ME.  That's what Hizbollah said, that's what Bin Laden said.  I take them at their word that they want us out of the Middle East.[/quote]

Bin Laden explicitly said that he wants us all convert to convert to islam. Here:

"(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.

It is to this religion that we call you; the seal of all the previous religions. It is the religion of Unification of God, sincerity, the best of manners, righteousness, mercy, honour, purity, and piety. It is the religion of showing kindness to others, establishing justice between them, granting them their rights, and defending the oppressed and the persecuted. It is the religion of enjoining the good and forbidding the evil with the hand, tongue and heart. It is the religion of Jihad in the way of Allah so that Allah's Word and religion reign Supreme. And it is the religion of unity and agreement on the obedience to Allah, and total equality between all people, without regarding their colour, sex, or language.

(b) It is the religion whose book - the Quran - will remained preserved and unchanged, after the other Divine books and messages have been changed. The Quran is the miracle until the Day of Judgment. Allah has challenged anyone to bring a book like the Quran or even ten verses like it."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver [/quote]

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