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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Most folks with DCUM. Do not believe in anything fun. The only fun they have is driving a sensible Prius to Trader Joe's! Of course while listening to NPR!![/quote]

:lol:  :lol:  I got my wrangler as I was tired of boring sensible SUV's.. [/quote]

PP here.  I am not pro or anti Wrangler.  I am just  [b]looking for rational, factual, supportable reasons to get one for my new driver.[/b]  Serioulsy looking.  This thread has been very helpful with that, and only a few buttheads spouting nonsense/ad hominem attacks.  Thanks for all of the responses.  [/quote]

Other than buying your new driver one for fun, there are no rational reasons.  They are expensive, have poor reliability rankings, have limited storage capacity, poor mileage and below average safety ratings.  So if you are making an informed decision and not going by anecdotal replies here, you are only buying a Jeep because its fun - and you probably enjoy the idea of your kids being very happy with you.  Seems that simple.  [/quote]

This pretty much nails it. A Jeep is a princess purchase. They're uncomfortable, unreliable, and [b]aren't even the best 4WD at that price point[/b]. They're a canvas for a "don't tread on me" or "silly boys, girls like jeeps too" license plate frame. The storage is awful and the interior feels smaller than it should. I'd happily get rid of ours except it's paid for and we don't drive it more than a few hundred miles a month. But it's fun and that's okay. Just make sure your driver understands how to get the most out of 4WD and has solid roadside assistance coverage. [/quote]

Now you’re talking complete nonsense right [b]there[/b], and it’s immediately clear to everyone you don’t know sh!t about four wheel drive, or off-road driving in general.

All your other points can be argued for merit or not.  But when you claim they aren’t the best off-road vehicle, you’ve exposed your ignorance and your credibility is gone.

Jeeps might(?) be overpriced. They’re not the most comfortable things. They’re slow. They brake and go around corners begrudgingly at best. If you’re too stupid to do basic fixes on a vehicle, an older Jeep might not be for you. They can roll over more easily than a car. All those things are true to some degree.

But there is NOTHING on earth as capable off-road for the $$$ - for any $$$ - as a Jeep Wrangler.

If you balk at that then it proves you understand nothing about suspension design and the importance of live axles front and rear.

[/quote]

They're so important that [b]they're switching to front and rear full-floats for 2024[/b]. Which is a shame, because the commitment to axle purity was the only redeeming quality outside of the cuteness. [/quote]

Why do you see that as a negative? I think it’s fantastic. They should’ve done it decades ago. I did a Teraflex full float retrofit kit on my Dana 44 rear on my TJ and it cost like $1,200 (in 2002 dollars!)

Full floaters are great. The hub bearing carries the entire weight of the vehicle, so all the axle-shaft has to do is turn the hub, and nothing else. It doesn’t need to carry any of the vehicle’s weight. And if you break an axle-shaft, all you need to do is pull the cover off the hub, pull the broken shaft out, and slide the new one in. You can replace the axle shaft on a full floater axle in under 5 minutes. Plus, if you DO break a shaft, the wheel assembly won’t come walking out of the axle tube. Dana 35’s rears were infamous for that. Even the D44 is only a semi-float design. All the burden of holding the hub and wheel assembly in the tube falls on the retaining nuts of the flange. Dicey solution at best.

Full float axles are amazing. Don’t be afraid of them. [/quote]

Oh, I agree with you entirely. There's a reason that every 4WD maker outside of Jeep moved away from live axles a long time ago. I found the stubborn dedication to lives cute though. As long as it's still unreliable, it's still a Jeep at heart![/quote]

I can tell right away you don’t know sh*t about off road driving or how suspension articulation works. You should probably stop now before you further embarrass yourself.

You don’t even understand the difference between a c-clip axle, a semi floater axle, and a full floater axle, and how they work in a live axle design. It’s clear you don’t even understand what you’re snarking about, because you’re mixing apples and hammers while trying to sound witty and clever.

Manufacturers (including Jeep, for the SUV models) went to IFS and then FIS set ups because most owners never use these vehicles off-road, and whined like children about wanting a plush ride like a car. So automakers caved in to public demand and offered less-capable vehicles with independent suspensions to appease an idiotic consumer base. This country used to produce some fantastic off-road vehicles, all of which had live axles and real off-road capabilities - GM K-series Blazers, Dodge Ramchargers, IH Scouts, Ford Bronco, all types of early/mid Jeeps, Datsun/Nissan Patrol, Suzuki Jimny and Samurai, Toyota Cruiser, SFA pick up, Prado, Isuzu Brigadier, etc…. all had live axles and could perform well off road. But the public demanded trucks that rode like cars, not trucks, so all these amazing vehicles died off and were replaced by hulking oversized station wagons with less off-road capability than a 1971 Volkswagen Beetle.

Jeep kept the wrangler a live axle design because Jeep understands some things about its customer base:  1) Wrangler owners are far more likely to use their vehicles off-road than owners of other four wheel drive vehicles. 2) live axles are vastly superior for low-speed off-road driving situations where uneven terrain and rocks require a suspension to flex and articulate over obstacles. Because of the fulcrum effect, when you push one end of a live axle up (as when it runs over a rock) it forces the opposite side of the axle down, keeping the tire on the side in contact with the ground. You don’t have traction unless a tire is in contact with the ground, so the axle forcing the tire downwards helps maintain traction. An independent suspension will lift the opposite side tire when the other tire climbs an obstacle, putting the other tire in the air, losing traction.

You’re out of your depth here. 
[/quote]

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