Anonymous
11/28/2023 23:30
Subject: Wrangler - safety
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Most folks with DCUM. Do not believe in anything fun. The only fun they have is driving a sensible Prius to Trader Joe's! Of course while listening to NPR!!
PP here. I am not pro or anti Wrangler. I am just looking for rational, factual, supportable reasons to get one for my new driver. Serioulsy looking. This thread has been very helpful with that, and only a few buttheads spouting nonsense/ad hominem attacks. Thanks for all of the responses.
Other than buying your new driver one for fun, there are no rational reasons. They are expensive, have poor reliability rankings, have limited storage capacity, poor mileage and below average safety ratings. So if you are making an informed decision and not going by anecdotal replies here, you are only buying a Jeep because its fun - and you probably enjoy the idea of your kids being very happy with you. Seems that simple.
This pretty much nails it. A Jeep is a princess purchase. They're uncomfortable, unreliable, and aren't even the best 4WD at that price point. They're a canvas for a "don't tread on me" or "silly boys, girls like jeeps too" license plate frame. The storage is awful and the interior feels smaller than it should. I'd happily get rid of ours except it's paid for and we don't drive it more than a few hundred miles a month. But it's fun and that's okay. Just make sure your driver understands how to get the most out of 4WD and has solid roadside assistance coverage.
Ours has never been on a tow truck! But we only have 220,000 on it. We have been to Key West in it on our lap of Florida. It is actually more comfortable than my wife's Outback on road trips!! But not as good as our new King Ranch F250!
I would have zero hesitation on driving our Wrangler Unlimited cross country today. Very reliable and easy to fix if it did have an issue. Any auto parts store will have any needed part and most likely could be fixed in the parking lot. I bet you ladies can't say the same about whatever you are driving!
You must have snagged a good year. Ours is a 2009 with 140K and clings to life by the tiniest of threads. It doesn't get driven much and our other car is very much The Family Car, so we can deal with the occasional downtime. But I would never want it as the only car.
I have a 97, a 13 and a 20. All reliable. Will keep driving them until I can no longer climb into them.
Anonymous
11/28/2023 23:28
Subject: Wrangler - safety
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So. For all the Jeep haters. What did you drive in high school?? And what do you drive now??
In high school I drove something called a “station wagon” because I had a bunch of younger siblings.
Now I drive a minivan or a CRV.
It’s ok not to drive a Jeep.
I drove a BMW 3 series in high school and a Rubicon now.
It's OK to drive a Jeep.
Anonymous
11/22/2023 17:55
Subject: Re:Wrangler - safety
Anonymous wrote:We just decided to go to Easter Jeep in Moab Utah for Easter!!
Check out videos on YouTube!!
The trail ride picks fill up QUICK! Don’t wait til you get there to pick your rides, check Red Rock 4 Wheelers website for updates about when you can start picking rides to get a spot on.
If you’ve never Jeeped Moab before (but DO have off-road experience) I recommend Hell’s Revenge, Fins and Things, and Golden Spike. Those are fun trails that almost-stock Jeeps can run. Locker(s), 33’s or bigger and disconnects are encouraged, but you could probably get a bone stock Wrangler through most of those trails with an experienced driver and good tires.
Anonymous
11/22/2023 14:24
Subject: Wrangler - safety
Anonymous wrote:I don't get Wrangler/Jeep lovers just like I don't get MAGA folks and anti-vaxxers.
I sure there’s lots of things in life you don’t “get”, Hon. That says more about you than it says about all those things.
Anonymous
11/22/2023 14:18
Subject: Wrangler - safety
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Most folks with DCUM. Do not believe in anything fun. The only fun they have is driving a sensible Prius to Trader Joe's! Of course while listening to NPR!!
PP here. I am not pro or anti Wrangler. I am just looking for rational, factual, supportable reasons to get one for my new driver. Serioulsy looking. This thread has been very helpful with that, and only a few buttheads spouting nonsense/ad hominem attacks. Thanks for all of the responses.
Other than buying your new driver one for fun, there are no rational reasons. They are expensive, have poor reliability rankings, have limited storage capacity, poor mileage and below average safety ratings. So if you are making an informed decision and not going by anecdotal replies here, you are only buying a Jeep because its fun - and you probably enjoy the idea of your kids being very happy with you. Seems that simple.
This pretty much nails it. A Jeep is a princess purchase. They're uncomfortable, unreliable, and aren't even the best 4WD at that price point. They're a canvas for a "don't tread on me" or "silly boys, girls like jeeps too" license plate frame. The storage is awful and the interior feels smaller than it should. I'd happily get rid of ours except it's paid for and we don't drive it more than a few hundred miles a month. But it's fun and that's okay. Just make sure your driver understands how to get the most out of 4WD and has solid roadside assistance coverage.
Now you’re talking complete nonsense right there, and it’s immediately clear to everyone you don’t know sh!t about four wheel drive, or off-road driving in general.
All your other points can be argued for merit or not. But when you claim they aren’t the best off-road vehicle, you’ve exposed your ignorance and your credibility is gone.
Jeeps might(?) be overpriced. They’re not the most comfortable things. They’re slow. They brake and go around corners begrudgingly at best. If you’re too stupid to do basic fixes on a vehicle, an older Jeep might not be for you. They can roll over more easily than a car. All those things are true to some degree.
But there is NOTHING on earth as capable off-road for the $$$ - for any $$$ - as a Jeep Wrangler.
If you balk at that then it proves you understand nothing about suspension design and the importance of live axles front and rear.
They're so important that they're switching to front and rear full-floats for 2024. Which is a shame, because the commitment to axle purity was the only redeeming quality outside of the cuteness.
Why do you see that as a negative? I think it’s fantastic. They should’ve done it decades ago. I did a Teraflex full float retrofit kit on my Dana 44 rear on my TJ and it cost like $1,200 (in 2002 dollars!)
Full floaters are great. The hub bearing carries the entire weight of the vehicle, so all the axle-shaft has to do is turn the hub, and nothing else. It doesn’t need to carry any of the vehicle’s weight. And if you break an axle-shaft, all you need to do is pull the cover off the hub, pull the broken shaft out, and slide the new one in. You can replace the axle shaft on a full floater axle in under 5 minutes. Plus, if you DO break a shaft, the wheel assembly won’t come walking out of the axle tube. Dana 35’s rears were infamous for that. Even the D44 is only a semi-float design. All the burden of holding the hub and wheel assembly in the tube falls on the retaining nuts of the flange. Dicey solution at best.
Full float axles are amazing. Don’t be afraid of them.
Oh, I agree with you entirely. There's a reason that every 4WD maker outside of Jeep moved away from live axles a long time ago. I found the stubborn dedication to lives cute though. As long as it's still unreliable, it's still a Jeep at heart!
I can tell right away you don’t know sh*t about off road driving or how suspension articulation works. You should probably stop now before you further embarrass yourself.
You don’t even understand the difference between a c-clip axle, a semi floater axle, and a full floater axle, and how they work in a live axle design. It’s clear you don’t even understand what you’re snarking about, because you’re mixing apples and hammers while trying to sound witty and clever.
Manufacturers (including Jeep, for the SUV models) went to IFS and then FIS set ups because most owners never use these vehicles off-road, and whined like children about wanting a plush ride like a car. So automakers caved in to public demand and offered less-capable vehicles with independent suspensions to appease an idiotic consumer base. This country used to produce some fantastic off-road vehicles, all of which had live axles and real off-road capabilities - GM K-series Blazers, Dodge Ramchargers, IH Scouts, Ford Bronco, all types of early/mid Jeeps, Datsun/Nissan Patrol, Suzuki Jimny and Samurai, Toyota Cruiser, SFA pick up, Prado, Isuzu Brigadier, etc…. all had live axles and could perform well off road. But the public demanded trucks that rode like cars, not trucks, so all these amazing vehicles died off and were replaced by hulking oversized station wagons with less off-road capability than a 1971 Volkswagen Beetle.
Jeep kept the wrangler a live axle design because Jeep understands some things about its customer base: 1) Wrangler owners are far more likely to use their vehicles off-road than owners of other four wheel drive vehicles. 2) live axles are vastly superior for low-speed off-road driving situations where uneven terrain and rocks require a suspension to flex and articulate over obstacles. Because of the fulcrum effect, when you push one end of a live axle up (as when it runs over a rock) it forces the opposite side of the axle down, keeping the tire on the side in contact with the ground. You don’t have traction unless a tire is in contact with the ground, so the axle forcing the tire downwards helps maintain traction. An independent suspension will lift the opposite side tire when the other tire climbs an obstacle, putting the other tire in the air, losing traction.
You’re out of your depth here.
Anonymous
11/19/2023 19:20
Subject: Wrangler - safety
I don't get Wrangler/Jeep lovers just like I don't get MAGA folks and anti-vaxxers.
Anonymous
11/19/2023 19:10
Subject: Wrangler - safety
Why not take a Wrangler with 220,000 on it all the way to Moab!! Only 2000 miles!! Beat on it hard off road and then drive 2000 miles home!! Will be a great time with my daughter who is a senior!!
Anonymous
11/19/2023 19:06
Subject: Re:Wrangler - safety
We just decided to go to Easter Jeep in Moab Utah for Easter!!
Check out videos on YouTube!!
Check out videos on YouTube!!
Anonymous
11/16/2023 15:07
Subject: Wrangler - safety
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Most folks with DCUM. Do not believe in anything fun. The only fun they have is driving a sensible Prius to Trader Joe's! Of course while listening to NPR!!
PP here. I am not pro or anti Wrangler. I am just looking for rational, factual, supportable reasons to get one for my new driver. Serioulsy looking. This thread has been very helpful with that, and only a few buttheads spouting nonsense/ad hominem attacks. Thanks for all of the responses.
Other than buying your new driver one for fun, there are no rational reasons. They are expensive, have poor reliability rankings, have limited storage capacity, poor mileage and below average safety ratings. So if you are making an informed decision and not going by anecdotal replies here, you are only buying a Jeep because its fun - and you probably enjoy the idea of your kids being very happy with you. Seems that simple.
This pretty much nails it. A Jeep is a princess purchase. They're uncomfortable, unreliable, and aren't even the best 4WD at that price point. They're a canvas for a "don't tread on me" or "silly boys, girls like jeeps too" license plate frame. The storage is awful and the interior feels smaller than it should. I'd happily get rid of ours except it's paid for and we don't drive it more than a few hundred miles a month. But it's fun and that's okay. Just make sure your driver understands how to get the most out of 4WD and has solid roadside assistance coverage.
Ours has never been on a tow truck! But we only have 220,000 on it. We have been to Key West in it on our lap of Florida. It is actually more comfortable than my wife's Outback on road trips!! But not as good as our new King Ranch F250!
I would have zero hesitation on driving our Wrangler Unlimited cross country today. Very reliable and easy to fix if it did have an issue. Any auto parts store will have any needed part and most likely could be fixed in the parking lot. I bet you ladies can't say the same about whatever you are driving!
You must have snagged a good year. Ours is a 2009 with 140K and clings to life by the tiniest of threads. It doesn't get driven much and our other car is very much The Family Car, so we can deal with the occasional downtime. But I would never want it as the only car.
Anonymous
11/16/2023 15:06
Subject: Wrangler - safety
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Most folks with DCUM. Do not believe in anything fun. The only fun they have is driving a sensible Prius to Trader Joe's! Of course while listening to NPR!!
PP here. I am not pro or anti Wrangler. I am just looking for rational, factual, supportable reasons to get one for my new driver. Serioulsy looking. This thread has been very helpful with that, and only a few buttheads spouting nonsense/ad hominem attacks. Thanks for all of the responses.
Other than buying your new driver one for fun, there are no rational reasons. They are expensive, have poor reliability rankings, have limited storage capacity, poor mileage and below average safety ratings. So if you are making an informed decision and not going by anecdotal replies here, you are only buying a Jeep because its fun - and you probably enjoy the idea of your kids being very happy with you. Seems that simple.
This pretty much nails it. A Jeep is a princess purchase. They're uncomfortable, unreliable, and aren't even the best 4WD at that price point. They're a canvas for a "don't tread on me" or "silly boys, girls like jeeps too" license plate frame. The storage is awful and the interior feels smaller than it should. I'd happily get rid of ours except it's paid for and we don't drive it more than a few hundred miles a month. But it's fun and that's okay. Just make sure your driver understands how to get the most out of 4WD and has solid roadside assistance coverage.
Now you’re talking complete nonsense right there, and it’s immediately clear to everyone you don’t know sh!t about four wheel drive, or off-road driving in general.
All your other points can be argued for merit or not. But when you claim they aren’t the best off-road vehicle, you’ve exposed your ignorance and your credibility is gone.
Jeeps might(?) be overpriced. They’re not the most comfortable things. They’re slow. They brake and go around corners begrudgingly at best. If you’re too stupid to do basic fixes on a vehicle, an older Jeep might not be for you. They can roll over more easily than a car. All those things are true to some degree.
But there is NOTHING on earth as capable off-road for the $$$ - for any $$$ - as a Jeep Wrangler.
If you balk at that then it proves you understand nothing about suspension design and the importance of live axles front and rear.
They're so important that they're switching to front and rear full-floats for 2024. Which is a shame, because the commitment to axle purity was the only redeeming quality outside of the cuteness.
Why do you see that as a negative? I think it’s fantastic. They should’ve done it decades ago. I did a Teraflex full float retrofit kit on my Dana 44 rear on my TJ and it cost like $1,200 (in 2002 dollars!)
Full floaters are great. The hub bearing carries the entire weight of the vehicle, so all the axle-shaft has to do is turn the hub, and nothing else. It doesn’t need to carry any of the vehicle’s weight. And if you break an axle-shaft, all you need to do is pull the cover off the hub, pull the broken shaft out, and slide the new one in. You can replace the axle shaft on a full floater axle in under 5 minutes. Plus, if you DO break a shaft, the wheel assembly won’t come walking out of the axle tube. Dana 35’s rears were infamous for that. Even the D44 is only a semi-float design. All the burden of holding the hub and wheel assembly in the tube falls on the retaining nuts of the flange. Dicey solution at best.
Full float axles are amazing. Don’t be afraid of them.
Oh, I agree with you entirely. There's a reason that every 4WD maker outside of Jeep moved away from live axles a long time ago. I found the stubborn dedication to lives cute though. As long as it's still unreliable, it's still a Jeep at heart!
Mine has been very reliable.
Anonymous
11/16/2023 15:04
Subject: Wrangler - safety
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Most folks with DCUM. Do not believe in anything fun. The only fun they have is driving a sensible Prius to Trader Joe's! Of course while listening to NPR!!
PP here. I am not pro or anti Wrangler. I am just looking for rational, factual, supportable reasons to get one for my new driver. Serioulsy looking. This thread has been very helpful with that, and only a few buttheads spouting nonsense/ad hominem attacks. Thanks for all of the responses.
Other than buying your new driver one for fun, there are no rational reasons. They are expensive, have poor reliability rankings, have limited storage capacity, poor mileage and below average safety ratings. So if you are making an informed decision and not going by anecdotal replies here, you are only buying a Jeep because its fun - and you probably enjoy the idea of your kids being very happy with you. Seems that simple.
This pretty much nails it. A Jeep is a princess purchase. They're uncomfortable, unreliable, and aren't even the best 4WD at that price point. They're a canvas for a "don't tread on me" or "silly boys, girls like jeeps too" license plate frame. The storage is awful and the interior feels smaller than it should. I'd happily get rid of ours except it's paid for and we don't drive it more than a few hundred miles a month. But it's fun and that's okay. Just make sure your driver understands how to get the most out of 4WD and has solid roadside assistance coverage.
Now you’re talking complete nonsense right there, and it’s immediately clear to everyone you don’t know sh!t about four wheel drive, or off-road driving in general.
All your other points can be argued for merit or not. But when you claim they aren’t the best off-road vehicle, you’ve exposed your ignorance and your credibility is gone.
Jeeps might(?) be overpriced. They’re not the most comfortable things. They’re slow. They brake and go around corners begrudgingly at best. If you’re too stupid to do basic fixes on a vehicle, an older Jeep might not be for you. They can roll over more easily than a car. All those things are true to some degree.
But there is NOTHING on earth as capable off-road for the $$$ - for any $$$ - as a Jeep Wrangler.
If you balk at that then it proves you understand nothing about suspension design and the importance of live axles front and rear.
They're so important that they're switching to front and rear full-floats for 2024. Which is a shame, because the commitment to axle purity was the only redeeming quality outside of the cuteness.
Why do you see that as a negative? I think it’s fantastic. They should’ve done it decades ago. I did a Teraflex full float retrofit kit on my Dana 44 rear on my TJ and it cost like $1,200 (in 2002 dollars!)
Full floaters are great. The hub bearing carries the entire weight of the vehicle, so all the axle-shaft has to do is turn the hub, and nothing else. It doesn’t need to carry any of the vehicle’s weight. And if you break an axle-shaft, all you need to do is pull the cover off the hub, pull the broken shaft out, and slide the new one in. You can replace the axle shaft on a full floater axle in under 5 minutes. Plus, if you DO break a shaft, the wheel assembly won’t come walking out of the axle tube. Dana 35’s rears were infamous for that. Even the D44 is only a semi-float design. All the burden of holding the hub and wheel assembly in the tube falls on the retaining nuts of the flange. Dicey solution at best.
Full float axles are amazing. Don’t be afraid of them.
Oh, I agree with you entirely. There's a reason that every 4WD maker outside of Jeep moved away from live axles a long time ago. I found the stubborn dedication to lives cute though. As long as it's still unreliable, it's still a Jeep at heart!
Anonymous
11/14/2023 01:04
Subject: Wrangler - safety
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Noting the poor IIHS reviews on the 2019-2023 Wranglers, and also noting the massive number of Wranglers I see on the road. I know people probably cannot answer this question with any precision, but what gives? Do others just have a higher risk tolerance than I do? DC wants a Wrangler (and seems that most of the drivers I see on the road in a Wrangler are teens). Seems an easy choice - don't get one.
some idiots think wranglers are cool to drive
some idiots think accidents only happen to others
some idiots think they can't possibly get into an accident because they are excellent drivers
some idiots think chicks dig wranglers
Enjoy your subway trip!!
Subways aren't entirely safe either.
Lol 😆 I have over 500,000 miles of driving Wranglers and CJs. No injuries yet!!
Impossible. According to the smartest minds here on DCUM, you would’ve died at least 28.7 times in that many miles of driving Jeeps.
Anonymous
11/12/2023 05:27
Subject: Wrangler - safety
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So. For all the Jeep haters. What did you drive in high school?? And what do you drive now??
In high school I drove something called a “station wagon” because I had a bunch of younger siblings.
Now I drive a minivan or a CRV.
It’s ok not to drive a Jeep.
How many accidents have you been in??
Anonymous
11/11/2023 21:29
Subject: Wrangler - safety
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Noting the poor IIHS reviews on the 2019-2023 Wranglers, and also noting the massive number of Wranglers I see on the road. I know people probably cannot answer this question with any precision, but what gives? Do others just have a higher risk tolerance than I do? DC wants a Wrangler (and seems that most of the drivers I see on the road in a Wrangler are teens). Seems an easy choice - don't get one.
some idiots think wranglers are cool to drive
some idiots think accidents only happen to others
some idiots think they can't possibly get into an accident because they are excellent drivers
some idiots think chicks dig wranglers
Enjoy your subway trip!!
Subways aren't entirely safe either.
Lol 😆 I have over 500,000 miles of driving Wranglers and CJs. No injuries yet!!
I hear DC and New York subways are really dangerous these days!
Driving in DC with a Hybrid is really dangerous!! Although a stick shift Jeep . Well the car jackers can't drive a stick!!
LOL, I'll take my Wrangler over a subway any day. At least if there is an emergency the Wrangler can drive over things and hopefully get us out.
Anonymous
11/11/2023 21:24
Subject: Wrangler - safety
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Noting the poor IIHS reviews on the 2019-2023 Wranglers, and also noting the massive number of Wranglers I see on the road. I know people probably cannot answer this question with any precision, but what gives? Do others just have a higher risk tolerance than I do? DC wants a Wrangler (and seems that most of the drivers I see on the road in a Wrangler are teens). Seems an easy choice - don't get one.
some idiots think wranglers are cool to drive
some idiots think accidents only happen to others
some idiots think they can't possibly get into an accident because they are excellent drivers
some idiots think chicks dig wranglers
Enjoy your subway trip!!
Subways aren't entirely safe either.
Lol 😆 I have over 500,000 miles of driving Wranglers and CJs. No injuries yet!!
I hear DC and New York subways are really dangerous these days!
Driving in DC with a Hybrid is really dangerous!! Although a stick shift Jeep . Well the car jackers can't drive a stick!!