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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]My sophomore is thinking of taking IB program. She does great in her AP classes and is getting A's and is ok with the workload but we are worried if she takes IB the intensity may be too much.  All of her friends are doing it and she mentions it gives a great bump for college acceptances. Curious if anyone would share their experience.  Thanks![/quote]

The IB’s great bump for college acceptance is a myth, same as the supposed superiority for writing in IB compared to AP. I’ve never seen any independent evidence to support these claims.

The problem with IB is that it’s really light on actual classes, only 6 over two years, to end up with a shaky general knowledge foundation. In exchange you get busywork classes like Theory of Knowledge, “extracurricular” activities etc. When people extol the “analysis” and “critical thinking” in IB, it’s just to mask the lack of breadth and depth in the curriculum.

A comparable schedule for an AP student would be 5-8 AP classes plus a few regular ones. If you’re careful with your choices you can get a solid preparation in either sciences and humanities because it’s a la carte, so you can align the coursework with your interests.

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AP is different than IB in terms of writing.  All IB classes, even STEM, require a lot of analytical writing. AP classes not so much.  The amount of writing is different between the two.

That said, you can indeed get a solid education with taking just AP classes.[/quote]

+1. You can do well with either and one might be better than another for a given kid but to suggest that IB lacks depth or gives you a shaky foundation is just dumb (as in do you work for the College Board dumb) [/quote]

The point is in IB you don’t get enough breadth and depth from the number of classes you take. Is one single humanities class enough preparation if you’re interested in this area? I’m doubtful.

Supposedly there’s more “analytical writing” in IB. What does that even mean? There’s less of it in AP, is that teacher dependent, built in the curriculum? Posters in this thread make a lot of assertions that don’t stand even the most cursory scrutiny.[/quote]

Arguing that IB lacks depth because some of its classes  require 2 years is a good example of an assertion that doesn’t stand the most cursory scrutiny. [/quote]

Lets see:

Two year IB Math HL AA gets the same college credit as the one year AP Calculus BC

Two year IB HL Physics gets the same college credit as the one year AP Physics C

Two year IB HL Chemistry gets the same college credit as the one year AP Chemistry

Hopefully you see the pattern. That’s true for all HL classes compared to the AP counterparts, humanities included.

Interpret this how you’d like, but to me it looks like IB HL classes are a hybrid of slow paced college classes. Doesn’t exactly inspire depth to be honest. If you’re relying on the IB courses alone over two years in the diploma program, you’re stuck with two HL classes (ie the slow paced college level classes) and four SL classes, roughly the equivalent of regular high school classes. Thats six classes in two years!

That’s the problem with one size fits all approaches that IB is modeled on, they can’t be too rigorous because they risk loosing enrollment. They can’t be too much like regular classes, because there’s no incentive to sign up. In the end IB is trying to strike a balance and set itself apart through other features, TOK, EE, “analytical writing” etc. of dubious benefit to the students.[/quote]

IB is an international standard, used for university admissions all over the world. It isn’t designed to align with typical American course sequences like AP is. [/quote]

I don’t disagree with what you said. I only take issue with the IB cheerleaders that claim IB is the pinnacle of high school education when it’s far from it. Classes are slower paced compared to college, for what is worth some students may need and benefit from it, some won’t.

AP’s are designed as college classes, not typical American college classes. AP Calculus has the same syllabus as an American, European or any other university in the world. IB on the other hand is not. Half of it is review material of high school math, which is why is taught over two years.[/quote]

You are just making stuff up now.  Tbh neither IB nor AP is equivalent to a top college class.  Plenty of students find that out when they get to college.

Leaving that aside, inferring that receiving the same credit for HL IB and AP classes means that the classes are equivalent and therefore HL IB goes at a slower pace is just something you made up in your head.

Finally, if it matters, plenty of colleges give credit for SL (1 year) IB classes. 
[/quote]

I meant the slow pace in the IB class is due to spending time to review high school topics. Top students students don’t need to review linear equations and quadratics, and would benefit more from going straight into calculus topics.

It matters how colleges view these advanced classes in relation to their own, that’s a proxy for rigor.

Besides that, there’s the opportunity cost for the student. If you spend two years in the HL class, then you don’t have room in your schedule for other classes that might be of interest.[/quote]

I tend to agree that IB may not be the best path for math or possibly even for STEM generally but it’s very possible to do IB diploma and AP math.

Also if you are just concerned about the *number* of topics covered in a class then I agree AP is probably better for you than IB but that doesn’t mean AP is more rigorous (or better prep for college or of more interest to college admissions officers). [/quote]

It depends what you mean by rigorous and the evidence is in the finer details. Contrary to what has been said in this thread to me it seems that IB AA teaches more to the test than BC. At least in the AP course there’s some effort to go over fundamental theorems in calculus with a modicum of proofs. Examples are Intermediate Value, Mean Value, Fundamental Theorems of Calculus etc.  which are either absent or presented in the IB class more like a recipe to follow because there’s simply no time to go in depth. When you have a few instruction hours for limits you’re not discussing the squeeze theorem and as a consequence you won’t prove the derivatives of trigonometric functions, you’re just going to apply the formula being shown in class.

I’m very skeptical that the supposed depth of IB curriculum has any substance at least in math. This being said I’m sure plenty of kids can be successful in stem majors with this background, but given the choice I’d rather go with AP.[/quote]

Do you have any basics for your claims?

The squeeze theorem takes 5 minutes to demonstrate.

http://educ.jmu.edu/~ohmx/squeeze_proof.pdf

[b]Calc BC crams 2 semesters of college courses into one HS year, so obviously it can only do so superficially without proving the theorems, right?[/b]

[/quote]

That depends on the local high school and teacher. College board gives a lot more latitude on course content and organization than IB. You don’t need to teach a prescribed syllabus, you only need to pass the course audit. Magnets generally teach the real deal college level.

Two semesters for Calculus 1 and 2 is standard, that wouldn’t be considered crammed. Supposedly AP is for students that can handle college classes in high school, not for ones that need a watered down, in between, course version. The truth is that it varies, that’s why we have AP Calculus AB, which is about 3/4 of Calculus BC, or AP Statistics which is taught over one year in high school but over one semester in college. The redeeming quality is that the AP classes align well with college classes and its easy to decide what you’ve mastered and what to take next.

IB HL AA suffers from the same shortcomings and more, not really a college class, but a mix of advanced and basic topics put together under the same label. Sometimes you see it getting credit for a combination of Calculus 1 and/or Statistics, but it’s not comparable with either. Occasionally you see people jumping straight into Multivariable after HL AA which is ill advised.[/quote]

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