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Obama's A More Perfect Union Speech
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Anonymous
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Surprised not to see any threads on this here...considering how involved folks are! Or is everyone tired of the politics already?
I read the speech & watched his delivery, and I was moved by his sincerity and candidness. I want to kill bonehead media analysts who keep focusing on Rev. Wright, and don't call out McCain for embracing conservative Christian leaders who've made similarly horrible statements. And for focusing on "Is this enough to help Obama recover?" and not on the many good points he made in the speech. |
Anonymous
| I am not sure I follow on McCain? I am not aware of his having an anti semetic, anti white, anti US religious leader that he has followed for 20 years and wrote a book using words from one of his sermons?? I think you haven't heard a lot about this on this board because it's uncomfortable to get into and there are a lot of Obama people who are now a bit confused. I question his sincerity since he only talked about this aspect of race when he was forced to because the videos were publicized (and keep in mind these videos we saw were part of a "best of series of videos available to buy so they are not some kind of whoops sermon) and while he may explain the behavior of Rev Wrightl, it doesn't excuse why oh why would he sit in a pew and listen to this man spew hate for 20 years unchecked and then ask him to be on his campaign?? The sad issue is the double standard is alive and well--if a white person had a religious leader this contraversial--he would be out. Think of Mitt Romney--a lot of people didn't vote for him because of the mormon church, right or wrong they were uncomfortable with policies on Poligamy that were ended a hundred years ago and policies on black people that were ended 30 years ago. All in all I am disapointed--I thought more of him and another "powerful' speech after the fact, doesn't do it for me or apparently a lot of people since he is dropping in the polls. |
Anonymous
| Agree with PP that there are probably "a lot of Obama people that are confused". I think that puts it nicely. I was a big Obama supporter and now I really question that choice. I now think that he's not all that he presents himself to be. I have a hard time believing that one would sit in that church for 20 years and listen to all that hate speech and not agree with it to a certain extent, which I find very, very disturbing. It's a big disappointment, because I had high hopes, and now I feel let down and, quite frankly, duped. |
jsteele
Site Admin Online
Site Admin Online
Clearly, you are the one confused. Allow me to correct several misrepresentations: 1) McCain has enthusiastically accepted the endorsement of an anti-Semitic, anti-Catholic, and anti-Gay minister. Hagee claims that God wiped out New Orleans because of a gay pride parade. That's no less ridiculous than anything Wright has said. McCain's "spiritual advisor", Rod Parsley, has called Islam a "false religion" that America was founded to destroy. It seems as far as being surrounded by religious wack jobs is concerned, its pretty much a wash between Obama and McCain. 2) What we get are snippets of a handful of sermons out of 30 years of sermons. To suggest that the snippets are representative is simply wrong. Some of the quotes being publicized are not even from sermons. One was from a speech at Howard University, for instance. The media is conducting a smear job, plain and simple. 3) Obama has said he did not hear these remarks while he attended services. An army of reporters has been working around the clock to disprove that with no success. William Krystal had to issue an retraction to his NYT column when he wrongly said that Obama had been in attendance when some of the more outrageous remarks were made. Turns out, Obama was in Florida and you can watch him give a speech there on YouTube. 4) Have you even watched the speech? It has been praised by almost every Editorial page in the country and even right wingers like Charles Murray have praised it. Rush is probably too stoned to comprehend, but he's about the only holdout. 5) Its a shame that Obama has dropped in the polls. He only beats McCain by 5 points in yesterday's NYT/CBS poll. That's still three points better than Clinton would beat McCain. But, I guess after the worst week of press he could ever imagine, that's not so bad. Once people start to remember how bad the economy sucks and McCain's plan to keep us in Iraq for 1,000 years won't help matters any, Wright will become a distant memory. |
Anonymous
| I would guess that the pp's didn't read or see the speech. I don't know how anyone would be able to read it and NOT say it was the most monumental speech in recent history. |
Meconbear
Member Offline
Member Offline
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I am a person who was on the fence (hilary or Obama) and his speech has switched me firmly to his side. I think it's a shame that we don't talk about race in as measured a way as he does in his More Perfect Union Speech. I think it's a shame that most white people really do have "race fatigue" and think everything is great and that some black people still hold very misguided views on the motives and intent of white people. When I was growing up in the 70's, there was so much hope for racial reconcilliation. Our pop culture reflected it. Our TV programming was full of messages of unity and hope. Now we have "black" shows and "white" shows and never the twain shall meet.
I think Obama's minister is very misguided, but I thought Obama himself have a revolutionary speech that, if we all really listen to what he is saying, will tell us a lot about our country. Namely, if we try to understand each other's hurts and anger, we can overcome them and come together. |
Anonymous
| I'm another who prefer(s)?(ed)? Hilary's depth of experience and vowed that I couldn't be swayed by mere charisma. But damn if that speech didn't knock my socks off. Bill C was "charismatic" and could give good speech, but I was never sold on his sincerity during his reign. I thoroughly believed every word out of Obama's mouth in this speech -- I don't think it's spin. |
Anonymous
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Excellent speech. Would have loved to hear more about how American Indians, Latino Americans, and Asian Americans fit into the scheme of things. Wonder if he considered including Jesse Jackson's statement about how he fears young black men, thinking "robbery"; it might have softened the bit about his white grandmother.
John Kerry on why Obama's race is a positive, from Ben Smith's Politico blog (sorry, don't know how to include the video): It's not just Clinton surrogates who say surprising things about race. Check out John Kerry's explanation, in the interview with a Massachusetts paper above, saying that Obama can help "bridge the divide of religious extremism." Why? he's asked. "Because he's African-American. Because he's a black man," he says (around 0:44 in the video above), citing Obama's roots in "a place of oppression and repression." It's a tricky argument for a campaign navigating between "race doesn't matter" --as the crowd memorably chanted in South Carolina -- and arguments that race is an explicit plus. Kerry, for instance, chided Ferraro for saying Obama is winning because he's black (which is a different, but related, argument to saying he'll be a better president because he's black). Bonus Obama surrogate today: Claire McCaskill gives a quote to the Kansas City paper that won't make an earlier generation of black candidates happy: “He, for the first time, I think, as a black leader in America, has come to the American people not as a victim, but rather as a leader,” McCaskill said. |
Anonymous
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OP here.
What I meant re McCain was, as a PP noted, his acceptance of Hagee's endorsement, plus his "courtship" of conservative leaders like Falwell & Robertson, who in the days after 9-11 publicly stated that what happened was punishment for America's tolerance of homosexuality, gay marriage, abortion, etc. Obama clearly and eloquently pointed out that what he knows of his pastor includes his wrong-minded views, but he also knows him as someone who preached love, care for the sick and poor, someone who helped him become a more committed Christian. His refusal to spurn his pastor, though he condemns his pastor's words, is more genuine, more real than McCain, who was clearly just courting the conservative vote even if his record as a senator reflects a tolerant, even liberal attitude. Maybe Obama could've left the church, as some people say, if he disagreed with some of the Rev's opinions. But for many people, a church is home. If it's the church that helped you strengthen your faith, you see it as a home and a family. You feel rooted in it. And your church is more than your pastor--it's the community you have, the people who care for your kids in Sunday school, the people who bring you food when you're sick. The fellowship you have with the other churchgoers. The missions the church supports. I also don't get how people are coming to the conclusion that Obama is now an anti-Semite!?! |
Anonymous
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If my home was a house full of racists, I would find family elsewhere. This isn't about a paster who makes some off color remarks from time to time--this man is a true bigot--well scratch that..unless you are black at which place he will move mountains to help you. I could even accept if Obama embraced his endorsement because let's face it..politics is politics but sitting in the row of a church that spews hate and then sort of brushes it off as the "historical black experience" is just awful. I don't need a history lesson, it's beneath a lot of us including those of us from black and multiracial families. But part of the problem that the Democratic party is in a bind now since he is still leading and Hillary really doesn't have a chance to catch up i.e. the showdown at the convention is that he was never really heavily scrutinized like the rest of the candidates. I just watch this whole thing and still see a lot of people thinking a geat speech equates a great man--but I didn't think the speech was great, I was even disqusted how he brought his I think dead grandmother into the speech--who knows if she said something racial in her home--it doesn't put her on par with a man who touts it proudly from a pulpit.
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Anonymous
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“He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.”
It is amazing how many are casting stones. I am sure at some point in everyone's life they have said or heard someone else say something about another person whether it be about their appearance, race, gender, actions, sexuality etc etc etc. Was your character quickly attacked and looked upon differently. This is exactly what Obama was saying in his speech accept the fact that we may not always be as politically correct as we would like about race and similiar issues but put it on the table and deal with it. Come on let's work together and stop working against one another. |
jsteele
Site Admin Online
Site Admin Online
Let me ask you this. Did you ever support Obama? Would you have ever supported Obama? If Wright and Trinity never existed, would you be an Obama supporter? Are you truly interested in Trinity, or is your interest limited simply to political expedience? I can fully understand those who have honest misgivings about Obama's relationship with Trinity and Wright. But, what I don't understand are people who are willing to attack and destroy individuals and institutions for nothing more than political gain. Obama's entire life has been an attempt to reach across racial lines, to contribute to a more perfect union, if you will. Why is such an endeavor a threat to you? Why must you oppose such a goal? Do you have any evidence that Obama is not sincere in this quest? Your suggestion that he sat week after week listening to racially divisive rhetoric is not supported by the facts. If you have evidence that contrary to his statement, Obama was in attendance when the well-publicized snippets were delivered, please present it. I assure you that Fox will have you on O'Reilly and Hannity this evening. But, short of that, you are doing nothing more than tarnishing someone by proxy. |
Anonymous
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To answer your question-I doubt I would support Obama because I am more conservative on some issues but..I always liked him as a man and thought well.. if he were president I know he would have honor even if all my political objectives weren't met. Sometimes you don't get everything. The original question was about this speech ..This whole thing with Wright truly shocked me--never did I think this of him (Obama). To put things in perspective, I definitely could see if he was looking for votes from maybe some pastors who wouldn't have been my cup of tea but..his close association with him--this is a man who also has an association with Louis Farrakeim (sp)--this bothers me a lot. I also saw the people in this church and..a lot of young people so I can't even say this is an age thing..just jumping up and down at the hate and there was a lot of hate. I thought of myself and what I would do..I would leave never to come back. I would realize there are a lot of houses of faith and I would not want to be around a paster and a congregation who jumped up and down with glee at hateful talk of the US, of Jews of White people--there is just no excuse and there shouldn't be. See this is one of the problems of race and being real today--if a white person was in a church that spoke this way--this would be called racist and would be looked down upon.--we should all have the same standards for each other. I also look at someone who is President as someone who is special--someone who would have the character and the decision making ability to say--"this isn't right and I am not going to perpetuate this anymore by staying here"--would that be tough in some ways if this kind of thinking is in your community--yes maybe but the right thing to do isn't always easy. The only positive thing that has come out of this mess is the discussion of race in terms of double standards and what each persective race thinks is acceptable--I do think that by talking openly we can maybe move forward but it doesn't excuse Obama his participation in racism--it just explains it. My early question on McCain was a real question by the way because if I thought he had a spiritual leader as a racist--he would be totally off my radar in terms of support so this is a partisian thing for me.
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Anonymous
| correction isn't a partisian thing for me. |
jsteele
Site Admin Online
Site Admin Online
Again, do you have any evidence of "Obama's participation in racism"? All that you appear to know about Trinity UCC are a few snippets of sermons -- not even complete sermons. Everyone who has first-hand experience with the church says these snippets present is a totally false picture. Obama says he was never in the Church to hear the most sensationalist statements. So far, his assertion has not been disproved, despite the efforts of a large number of reporters to do so. Therefore, you are basing your entire dislike of Obama on something that exists primarily in your imagination. As to your question about McCain, is racism the only thing that bothers you are are you offended equally by religious bigotry? On February 26, McCain appeared at a rally with the Reverend Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church of Columbus. McCain called Parsley his "spiritual guide". In his book "Silent No More", Parsley has a chapter titled "Islam: The Deception of Allah". In that chapter, Parsley writes about Islam, "The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed...". He further writes that "Allah was a demon spirit" He repeatedly calls on Americans to take up the challenge of eradicating Islam. Obama has an extensive history that shows no sign of his agreeing with any of the racially insensitive remarks that have been aggressively pushed by the media. This is what the conservative Chicago Tribune recently had to say about Obama: "When we endorsed Obama for the Democratic presidential nomination Jan. 27, we said we had formed our opinions of him during 12 years of scrutiny. We concluded that the professional judgment and personal decency with which he has managed himself and his ambition distinguish him." This story was mainly addressing the Rezko matter, but the point remains. Would the Tribune praise the "personal decency" of someone who fits the caricature that you paint? The picture of Trinity that has been drawn for you is unfair and inaccurate. Here is the full text of the "Audacity of Hope" sermon from which Obama chose the title of his book: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/for-the-record.html Read this and see if it fits the ideas you have about Wright. |