Obama's A More Perfect Union Speech

[Anonymous]

What I find amazing is if McCain belonged to a church with such a racist preacher, all of you Obama people would go nuts, but it is okay if Obama is racist, you just make another excuse for him. But that said, I really don't care because I don't think Obama has a chance in hell of being the next president with McCain running against him.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:What I find amazing is if McCain belonged to a church with such a racist preacher, all of you Obama people would go nuts, but it is okay if Obama is racist, you just make another excuse for him. But that said, I really don't care because I don't think Obama has a chance in hell of being the next president with McCain running against him.

I will ask again despite my question being repeatedly ignored. What evidence do you have that Obama is a racist? If you are going to come here and make such a charge, at least have the decency to back it up. All you know are a few unrepresentative clips that do not accuracy describe the church or the minister. Can you prove that Obama even heard those snippets? Nobody else seems to have been able, but maybe you can be the first.

And, maybe you should care. McCain is supposed to be a foreign policy expert, but can't tell a Shia from a Sunni. If it weren't for the media's love affair with McCain, he wouldn't even be taken seriously. Obama will clean his clock in the general election.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I find amazing is if McCain belonged to a church with such a racist preacher, all of you Obama people would go nuts, but it is okay if Obama is racist, you just make another excuse for him. But that said, I really don't care because I don't think Obama has a chance in hell of being the next president with McCain running against him.

I will ask again despite my question being repeatedly ignored. What evidence do you have that Obama is a racist? If you are going to come here and make such a charge, at least have the decency to back it up. All you know are a few unrepresentative clips that do not accuracy describe the church or the minister. Can you prove that Obama even heard those snippets? Nobody else seems to have been able, but maybe you can be the first.

And, maybe you should care. McCain is supposed to be a foreign policy expert, but can't tell a Shia from a Sunni. If it weren't for the media's love affair with McCain, he wouldn't even be taken seriously. Obama will clean his clock in the general election.
Jeff, you are right, I do not have proof, but please anwswer this honestly, if it were McCain in Obama's shoes, would you need proof? I am a fan of McCain. I think he is a hero, I hope he wins. I will say this too, no matter who wins, I will back them up, respect them and pray for them every night. I come from a military back ground and believe that the president is the man in charge and deserves the respect. I could not stand Clinton but he was the commander in chief while running the office. I hope that all of you that are against McCain give him his respect when/if he wins.

[Anonymous]

Okay JSteele now you are just being silly--"clean his clock??"--let's elevate this discussion. As for your asking what proof--the proof is in the fact that he admits to being a willing participant in a racist church because he not only didn't quit, he still isn't quiting --I am mildly amused that everyone is saying "snippets" of the sermon as if the rest of the sermon was about peace and love and lovin the jews etc.--The more I see about Rev Wright, the more concerned I am--for whatever reason, he hates white people and has come to hate the US--and you can't say we caused 911 and love the US and you can't say that the aids virus was a governmental policy to kill black people etc.--I can't even call the man ignorant since he is highly educated and should know better. But I digress--for me --we go back to the original post of what did I think of the speech and of course what do I think of Obama--for me a racist is someone who sits in a church full of fellow racists and doesn't quit, doesn't speak out publicly on the hate and just sort of "soft shoes" it when when they are forced and almost takes on the "it's acceptable because we are oppressed nonsense. Obama also first said that he wasn't aware of Rev Wright making any hate speeches--I don't buy that--again he is close to this man and someone doesn't hold these kind of thoughts to himself--not to mention these speeches or sermons are available for sale on a "best of DVD"--the man thinks this represents his best work?? And Obama is now saying that he in fact was in the church when some things were said --I am thinking that he thought better of the total denial since someone could come up with footage of him at the church during one of Rev Wright's speeches. I notice that as always when something comes up it is necessary to then put down someone on the other side-fine if you don't like McCain--it's not really believable that he doesn't have salient foreign policy experience..and considering Obama has none, I would think he is better. But..again that wasn't the original post was it? I also noticed when I said that Romney was essentially kicked out of the race because people were uncomfortable with the mormon faith, there was no discussion--Mormons are considered awful because they had poligmy over 100 years ago and because they didn't accept black people until 30 years ago--today I would say the Mormons are one of the kindest most tolerant people--I know many mormons myself and I have never ever heard the kind of hate come out of their mouth that I heard from Rev Wright. In the end, I am happy to see that a lot of people are questioning the double standard and I hope that all of us no matter what our faith will check ourselves before we say something offensive. I again state that I would be as offended if I felt a Republican was operating in this manner--I have not seen this in John McCain but if I did, I wouldn't support him and would hope that other people wouldn't support him either and another candidate would take his place.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Jeff, you are right, I do not have proof, but please anwswer this honestly, if it were McCain in Obama's shoes, would you need proof?

As I've written, McCain has his own problems with some of the people who have endorsed him. So, in his shoes, I would say that this shouldn't be an issue for either candidate. As it happens, that's exactly what McCain did do:

[Anonymous]

GO JSTEELE! though i'm afraid it appears you are arguing at a different level than the other poster. in a very anecdotal way, this exemplifies the difference between right and left supporters.

[Anonymous]

How is his at a different level?? I am not impressed--the issue is not about endorsements--both sides will have some wackos--the issue is direct participation in a racist Church. Come to think of it--let's bring in Michele and her talk that for the first time in her life she is proud of her country. Why? Because a black man is running for President?--that is something to feel pride for but not anything else?? Not Christopher Reeve showing the endurance in seeing through a horrible injury and giving the world hope, not his wife who stood by his side and created a great foundation with him, not the firefighters and policeman who ran up the stairs of World Trade Center knowing they would die? Not the good samitaritian who gave his life chasing a robber out of Starbucks and getting shot? Not our soldiers in Iraq who are fighting to better our world? Not Americans who join the peace corps to also better the world? I could go on and on but to people like Michele Obama and maybe even Barrack --unless it is directly part of being black--it isn't relevant and if it is offensive to whites and to also a lot of other races..who cares. That is how they are coming across and that could be in the white house soon--scary for a lot of people and that thought is showing up in the polls. I realize this sight tends to be very liberal and that's fine because it's always interesting to see what the other side feels but the most liberal and also the most conservative are not how the majority of American are--majority are somewhere in the middle and Mr. Obama is now showing himself to be I don't know where he is but it isn't in the middle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay JSteele now you are just being silly--"clean his clock??"--let's elevate this discussion. As for your asking what proof--the proof is in the fact that he admits to being a willing participant in a racist church because he not only didn't quit, he still isn't quiting --I am mildly amused that everyone is saying "snippets" of the sermon as if the rest of the sermon was about peace and love and lovin the jews etc.--The more I see about Rev Wright, the more concerned I am--for whatever reason, he hates white people and has come to hate the US--and you can't say we caused 911 and love the US and you can't say that the aids virus was a governmental policy to kill black people etc.--I can't even call the man ignorant since he is highly educated and should know better. But I digress--for me --we go back to the original post of what did I think of the speech and of course what do I think of Obama--for me a racist is someone who sits in a church full of fellow racists and doesn't quit, doesn't speak out publicly on the hate and just sort of "soft shoes" it when when they are forced and almost takes on the "it's acceptable because we are oppressed nonsense. Obama also first said that he wasn't aware of Rev Wright making any hate speeches--I don't buy that--again he is close to this man and someone doesn't hold these kind of thoughts to himself--not to mention these speeches or sermons are available for sale on a "best of DVD"--the man thinks this represents his best work?? And Obama is now saying that he in fact was in the church when some things were said --I am thinking that he thought better of the total denial since someone could come up with footage of him at the church during one of Rev Wright's speeches. I notice that as always when something comes up it is necessary to then put down someone on the other side-fine if you don't like McCain--it's not really believable that he doesn't have salient foreign policy experience..and considering Obama has none, I would think he is better. But..again that wasn't the original post was it? I also noticed when I said that Romney was essentially kicked out of the race because people were uncomfortable with the mormon faith, there was no discussion--Mormons are considered awful because they had poligmy over 100 years ago and because they didn't accept black people until 30 years ago--today I would say the Mormons are one of the kindest most tolerant people--I know many mormons myself and I have never ever heard the kind of hate come out of their mouth that I heard from Rev Wright. In the end, I am happy to see that a lot of people are questioning the double standard and I hope that all of us no matter what our faith will check ourselves before we say something offensive. I again state that I would be as offended if I felt a Republican was operating in this manner--I have not seen this in John McCain but if I did, I wouldn't support him and would hope that other people wouldn't support him either and another candidate would take his place.

yeah, what she/he said. Thanks, I could not of said this, but it is what I wanted to say.

[jsteele]

21:31 - Obama does not admit to being a "participant in a racist church". Basing your entire argument on a falsehood is generally not a good strategy and certainly not a way to "elevate this discussion".

Its quite rich of you to write "My early question on McCain was a real question by the way because if I thought he had a spiritual leader as a racist--he would be totally off my radar in terms of support so this is a partisian thing for me" and then criticize me for explaining that indeed McCain does have connections with bigoted a religious leader. I was under the apparently incorrect assumption that "real questions" are meant to be answered.

I will again ask you to present any evidence that Obama was not truthful in saying that he was not present when Wright made his well publicized remarks. As you admit, there are video tapes available. Why hasn't a reporter been able to place Obama in the church for one of these?

Finally, I didn't address your Romney point because I don't agree he was defeated due to his religion. He got beat because he has been on both sides of every issue and was all too obvious in his pandering. He seems to have believed that immigration was a winning issue, when in fact it has been a loser for everyone who tried to run on it. I actually respect McCain for his own position on immigration.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:let's bring in Michele

Oh, okay. Now you want to bring the wives into it? What about Cindy? She had an affair with a married man who she married one month after his divorce, used her inherited money to fund his Congressional campaign, and then stole drugs from a charity she operated to feed her drug habit. Her congressman husband used his influence to cover up her arrest. How does that compare to one slip of the tongue?

[Anonymous]

But she didn't say the first time she was proud to be an American was because of a black man running for President and then sit in a racist church for twenty years. Also--you seem to forget that Barrack has now admitted that he was present for some of Rev. Wright's racist tirades--maybe he wasn't in for the sermons we have seen on tv but...being there for any racist tirade is awful and again..I said that the kind of speech that Wright says just doesn't happen a few times.. Again...he packaged his best of DVD with all this racist crap so again...this wasn't a theme that was out of line for him also Barrack disinvited him to his invocation because he might not go over well with the Jewish supporters so I would say he knew..... I am not sure you are reading what I have said or just will excuse him of anything.

Now back to Cindi--have to admit I am not a fan of extramarital affairs and divorce--I would prefer someone without that baggage but the fact that they have been married a long time and he still has a good relationship with wife number one is okay with me.
As for drugs, I would think a liberal would give a bye to someone who is fighting a drug habit and who has now done so successfully--seems like she was most hurting herself and good for her that she has cleaned up. Again..if she sat in a racist Church that promoted white seperatism, she would be out in my book. I would also be disgusted if she said the first time in her adult life she was proud to be an American was because her husband who was white was running for office--I would think she has just an agenda for white people.

As for Romney--JSteele I would hope you aren't the only one who comments--no one weighed in on his religion and yes it was a huge factor--remember he had to make a speech about it--sad.. wish he didn't- as there is no shame in being a mormon nor need to explain-the media just wouldn't leave it alone.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Barrack has now admitted that he was present for some of Rev. Wright's racist tirades

Here is what he said:

"I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely – just as I’m sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren’t simply controversial. They weren’t simply a religious leader’s effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country – a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam."

Nowhere does he say that he was present for "racial tirades". You expressed an interest in elevating the discussion. A good starting point is accurately reporting what has and has not been said.

For what its worth, I disagree with Obama's last sentence above. The conflict in the Middle East is not rooted primarily in radical Islam. The conflict was around well before radical Islam was even a factor in the region. That's not to say that Israel is to blame, but the problems of the region are much to complex to summarize in such a fashion.

[Anonymous]

My priest never said anything at all racist--nothing about US causing 911 not about whites doing us wrong--and if he did--I would leave--I wouldn't just sit there and keep coming back --that's the problem--he had a choice to say "This guy doesn't reflect my view of the world"- and find another church because there are tonnnnnnnnnns of churches to go to. He wouldn't be the first person to leave that church due to the pastor's views--Oprah Winfrey left because of his views.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:My priest never said anything at all racist--nothing about US causing 911 not about whites doing us wrong--and if he did--I would leave--I wouldn't just sit there and keep coming back --that's the problem--he had a choice to say "This guy doesn't reflect my view of the world"- and find another church because there are tonnnnnnnnnns of churches to go to. He wouldn't be the first person to leave that church due to the pastor's views--Oprah Winfrey left because of his views.

Again, do you have any evidence that Obama was present when racist statements were made? You keep repeating that he was as if its fact. He says he wasn't there. You have repeatedly ignored this question.

I will ask it again. Do you have evidence that Obama was in the church when racist statements were made. Yes, or no?

[Anonymous]

How come George Bush became president after speaking at Bob Jones University? A racist institution with racist rules (in writing). How come that was overlooked?

I am African American, and the minister concerns me, he is a bit weird*. But I do not think for one minute that he will have any influence on policy. Obama is surrounded by great experts in many fields. I can't imagine why he would turn to his minister for advice if in office. Obama was using that church to get ahead politically, that's all.

* By the way, I find all overly religious people weird.