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Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?
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GnosticChristianBishop
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Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?
Christian dogma says that Adam and Eve were murdered by neglect when God locked away the tree of life. Eve was deceived by Satan and the talking serpent that God put in Eden. This caused the Original Sin concept that Christianity calls a happy fault and necessary to God’s plan. Was gaining an education and a moral sense, which basically is what gaining knowledge is, justifiable to you? Can you see yourself punishing your children for gaining an education and a moral sense the way God is punishing Adam and Eve to this day? Regards DL |
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It wasn’t the tree of “knowledge.” It was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The snake told Eve if she ate of it, she would be as smart as God, a God herself. She didn’t eat it to “get an education,” she ate of it to elevate herself to God’s level.
Genesis 3:5 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Knowing good and evil was not a positive thing for Adam and Eve; rather, it served as the entry of sin into humanity. Now, all people sin and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23), and we all live under the twin curse of sin and death (Romans 6:23). “Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!” (Romans 7:24–25; cf. John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8–9). |
Anonymous
| No, because God knew in advance they would fail his "test" and he gave it to them anyway, so he must have done it solely to sate his desire to punish. |
Anonymous
He didn’t know. He gave them a choice. They chose. |
Anonymous
| “There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). Because of the sacrifice of Christ, God sees only the righteousness of Christ when He looks at us. Our sin has been nailed to the cross with Jesus, and we will never be punished for it. |
Anonymous
What? I thought god was all-knowing? There was something he didn't know? |
GnosticChristianBishop
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I know the myth and do not need to hear it from you. The issue is God murdering A & E by neglect and locking away the tree of life just because they sought to not be as bright as bricks and without a moral sense. Do you value your education and moral sense and should you be punished for trying to elevate both of those? Regards DL |
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I agree that reading this myth literally must lead to that conclusion. The Jews interpreted the same myth as man's elevation and not his fall. They value what God said. They have become as Gods in the knowing of good and evil. I see nothing wrong with that. Do you? Regards DL |
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Spoken like a true immoral coward who would let another suffer for his unrighteousness while ignoring what Jesus taught. Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin. Regards DL |
Anonymous
He knew, but didn’t force them to make the wrong choice. Adam and Eve weren’t robots. They chose. Free will. |
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In the first place, death was not part of God's creation. Adam was created to be eternal – not, as some have mistakenly claimed, immortal since 1 Timothy 6:15-16 tells us: "He who is … King of kings and Lord of lords who alone has immortality." God placed Adam in the Garden of Eden and, on that first Friday, invited him to eat the fruit of any tree except "the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil … for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die" [Genesis 2:15-17]. Neither Adam nor Eve died on the day they ate the forbidden fruit but rather Scripture records that Adam died at the age of 930 years [Genesis 5:5]. The traditional explanation is an appeal to 2 Peter 3:8: "With the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." None of the pre-flood patriarchs lived more than a thousand years – thus, they all died within one of God's "days."
http://www.creationmoments.com/content/did-adam-really-live-930-years I don’t get the whole “God murdered Adam and Eve.” If that’s your view, okee dokee. |
Anonymous
The scriptures you quoted are referring to the fact that God does not punish children for the sins of their parents. 1 John 2:25 http://biblehub.com/1_john/2-25.htm Jesus promises us eternal life. “And this is what he promised us—eternal life.” |
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You cannot make a free willed choice without knowing good and evil as you would not know what you are choosing or even have the desire required to choose freely. You might want to think before opening your mouth. Eve was correct in eating of the tree of knowledge and rejecting God. It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin. 1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. This indicates that Jesus had no choice. If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate? God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan. This then begs the question. What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to? Only an insane and immoral God. That’s who. The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality. One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women. They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men. ------------------------ Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”. That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy." But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem. If all sin by nature, then the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong. Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility. Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution. Consider. First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Evil then is only human to human. As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate. Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times. Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct. This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well. Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition. Regards DL ----------------------- Evolutionary theology. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXOvYn1OAL0&list=UUDXjzOeZRqLxhYaaEhWLb_A&index=9 |
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If locking away what would have kept them alive was not murder by neglect, then what would you call it? If death was not a party of God's plan, then you are saying that man is powerful enough to screw up God's plan. You show how little faith you have in your genocidal son murdering prick of a God that you have judged to be good, somehow. Justify your position. Regards DL |
Anonymous
| Whatever. This is just another example of men blaming stuff on women. |