Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great Article, and indicates there is still hope for US Men's Soccer - just a few more years to go:

https://sports.yahoo.com/usmnt-doesnt-need-better-athletes-win-world-cup-060526124.html

He's right that it's not about getting the "best athletes." For anyone who thinks that - that's the best way to identify yourself as a complete noob. This writer falls for the second best way though. "Look how well the [U17, U20] team has done lately. Success is right around the corner. No need to panic. We are making progress. Just need to be patient and stay the course, ...." That's a story line that has been written over and over and over again over the past 15-20 years, at least. Just like "we beat Spain," "we made it out of the 'group of death'", all little meaningless blips that do nothing but hide the lack of real progress.

Are we better at developing soccer players than we were 10-15 years ago? Sure. More small sided games at the younger ages, more year-round training, the DA system, a slow but steady growth in the number of coaches teaching (and a few actually playing) a possession style for development's sake .... We've probably taken 5 steps forward on the development path. The problem is the rest of the world has taken 10 steps forward in the same time frame. We are getting better, but we are still falling farther and farther behind.

To date, the United States men's soccer development system has developed ONE player capable of making a meaningful contribution on a regular basis for a knock-stage caliber Champion's League team.

This is not due to lack of popularity, number of participants, best athletes, not recruiting players from "the hood", or from lack of money being invested in youth development.

It is because our system does not incentivize player development, and the system used by the rest of the world does. Yes, the federation has a role to play (see Germany, Spain, Belgium), and yes, it helps when professional leagues work WITH the federation to do what's best for the country (see Germany vs England). But the inescapable truth is that player development in the rest of the world is primarily driven by individual professional clubs competing in an open market. The market is controlled by rules that are standardized world wide pursuant to FIFA regulations that the US is for some reason exempt from.

Individual Clubs not Single Entity (MLS)
Promotion and Relegation.
Solidarity Payments.
Training Compensation (note - not the same thing).

Those are the steps forward. Contrary to the author's assertion, we will never truly have a "level playing field" with the rest of the world until we start playing by the same rules.

I agree with your post, though I do think we've made some progress over the last several years. On our U20 team, the college players are the exception. Most are professionals, and Ramos called up a number of players currently in Europe whose clubs refused to release them (many of the U17s are already signed to pro contracts too). There are a lot more talented Americans (born and raised in America) playing in Germany and other countries than in the past, and I think their numbers will grow as more kids realize you can make a good living from soccer if you have the talent and the drive.[b]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

SoccerRef wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ America is not responsible for Pulisic’s talent or development. That’s been said over and over again. Try to catch up.

How do you figure?

Pulisic was in the DA system (PA Classics) from 2008-2015, age 10-15.

Those are formative years, so it's hard to say the US system has no responsibility for developing his talent.

That said, it is beyond dispute that if he had stayed in the US system instead of going to Dortmund at age 16, his development would not have accelerated as it did.

He only trained in official practice 2 days per week. He first learned the game in England. His parents did most of the training and Christian did most of the work in his own backyard. He took several overseas trips to train with the best along the way---even including the famed 'La Masia'.

Nope. It wasn't a system of Us travel/DA coaches that made him the player he is today. I love how they are now trying to glom onto him and claim the credit. It's laughable.

Nope---323 million people in the Country and they don't even get to truly claim the one shining star that made it. And, it's telling at the young age of 15 he hightailed it the hell out of here. That is Freshmen HS age for many.

Anonymous wrote:how come the US can produce top women's teams but not men's in the current system?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:how come the US can produce top women's teams but not men's in the current system?

Please read the entire thread before asking the same question over and over again.

US Women started playing soccer decades before all other Countries. They got their *ss handed to them at the last Olympics and lost. As these other Nations (the real soccer nations) catch-up, the US women are going to suffer the same fate because they rely on the same shitty physical style as the USMNT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:how come the US can produce top women's teams but not men's in the current system?

Please read the entire thread before asking the same question over and over again.

US Women started playing soccer decades before all other Countries. They got their *ss handed to them at the last Olympics and lost. As these other Nations (the real soccer nations) catch-up, the US women are going to suffer the same fate because they rely on the same shitty physical style as the USMNT.

and they did the same whiny bullshit the USMNT is doing. Hope Solo crying that the other team didn't play 'pretty soccer' and making all kinds of excuses.

The US men complaining about field conditions and crying when they had to rely on OTHER nations to try to propel them into the qualifying group. The Belgian game was played in a cow pasture. Come on.

Own the responsibility. We lost because we played like sh*t and we develop like shit. It is a politicized, pay-to-play system that is 'team centric'.

Maybe those of us who have been around the sport for 30+ years seem cynical. That's because we hear the same excuses year after year after year. The decades bleed together.

Anonymous wrote:Now this is a good article: https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/world-cup-articles/us-soccer-failures-has-an-easy-fix_aid43012

SoccerRef wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now this is a good article: https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/world-cup-articles/us-soccer-failures-has-an-easy-fix_aid43012

There's an big difference between an easy fix, and an obvious fix.
Pro/rel is an obvious fix, but it's certainly not easy to implement.
I'm sure that there isn't an current owner that would allow it...why would they risk a massive financial hit?
MLS could require that new owners buy into it, but I'd imagine prices would tank, and it would take forever until the new owners are in the majority.

So doable? Maybe. Easy? Heck no.

Anonymous wrote:

SoccerRef wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now this is a good article: https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/world-cup-articles/us-soccer-failures-has-an-easy-fix_aid43012

There's an big difference between an easy fix, and an obvious fix.
Pro/rel is an obvious fix, but it's certainly not easy to implement.
I'm sure that there isn't an current owner that would allow it...why would they risk a massive financial hit?
MLS could require that new owners buy into it, but I'd imagine prices would tank, and it would take forever until the new owners are in the majority.

So doable? Maybe. Easy? Heck no.

It shouldn't be up to MPS, or their franchise owners. Pro/rel isn't a league decision, it's a US Soccer Federation decision. If MPS doesn't like it, they can always opt out. They just wouldn't get the Fed's D1 sanction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:how come the US can produce top women's teams but not men's in the current system?

Please read the entire thread before asking the same question over and over again.

US Women started playing soccer decades before all other Countries. They got their *ss handed to them at the last Olympics and lost. As these other Nations (the real soccer nations) catch-up, the US women are going to suffer the same fate because they rely on the same shitty physical style as the USMNT.

and they did the same whiny bullshit the USMNT is doing. Hope Solo crying that the other team didn't play 'pretty soccer' and making all kinds of excuses.

The US men complaining about field conditions and crying when they had to rely on OTHER nations to try to propel them into the qualifying group.