takoma wrote:Americans have many different outlook and expectations. Some wonderful people may have well-motivated reasons for voting in ways that seem insane to me. If I am a patriotic American, my loyalty should be to the American people, including those I disagree with, including those misguided enough (in my own personal view) to start divisive threads like this one.

And I hope others will feel that way even about people who write preachy notes like this.

Anonymous wrote:I'll blame the people who put their hatred for Hillary over their love of this country.

Trump is a loose cannon with zero political experience. Not to mention a blatant racist and sexist. For anyone sane enough to see this and still choose to vote for him because "Hillary is worse" is, well, insane.

Anonymous wrote:

takoma wrote:Americans have many different outlook and expectations. Some wonderful people may have well-motivated reasons for voting in ways that seem insane to me. If I am a patriotic American, my loyalty should be to the American people, including those I disagree with, including those misguided enough (in my own personal view) to start divisive threads like this one.

And I hope others will feel that way even about people who write preachy notes like this.

As someone whose posts I respect, I am surprised that you think I am seeking to be divisive. What prompted me to post this topic was Jeff's citing of the PPP poll in PA that showed the race to be even. Unlike many of my liberal compatriots, I don't think a Trump presidency is out of the question. He has tapped into a strain of real discontent with the status quo, as did Bernie.

Since I know friends and associates and even family members who planning on voting for Trump, I assure you that they are not racists or bigots.

Anonymous wrote:I'll blame the people who put their hatred for Hillary over their love of this country.

Trump is a loose cannon with zero political experience. Not to mention a blatant racist and sexist. For anyone sane enough to see this and still choose to vote for him because "Hillary is worse" is, well, insane.

Anonymous wrote:I am independent but if he wins, I will blame the lack of an educated populace and the fact that politicians and the media (particularly Fox News) do not feel their job is to correct incorrect ideas or information.

It is sad - when they poll other countries, Trump loses by a lot particularly among our allies. But he does win in Russia, China and North Korea where of course, there is an interest in having a malleable person in charge of the US.

takoma wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

takoma wrote:Americans have many different outlook and expectations. Some wonderful people may have well-motivated reasons for voting in ways that seem insane to me. If I am a patriotic American, my loyalty should be to the American people, including those I disagree with, including those misguided enough (in my own personal view) to start divisive threads like this one.

And I hope others will feel that way even about people who write preachy notes like this.

As someone whose posts I respect, I am surprised that you think I am seeking to be divisive. What prompted me to post this topic was Jeff's citing of the PPP poll in PA that showed the race to be even. Unlike many of my liberal compatriots, I don't think a Trump presidency is out of the question. He has tapped into a strain of real discontent with the status quo, as did Bernie.

Since I know friends and associates and even family members who planning on voting for Trump, I assure you that they are not racists or bigots.

I apologize for misreading your intent. It looked to me that you were inviting a flurry of blame-throwing, but as I said in the previous note, there are often good motives that are not clear to me.

I definitely agree that a Trump win can happen. It scares me senseless because I fear his view of leadership is closer to Mussolini than to FDR or Reagan.

Anonymous wrote:

takoma wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

takoma wrote:Americans have many different outlook and expectations. Some wonderful people may have well-motivated reasons for voting in ways that seem insane to me. If I am a patriotic American, my loyalty should be to the American people, including those I disagree with, including those misguided enough (in my own personal view) to start divisive threads like this one.

And I hope others will feel that way even about people who write preachy notes like this.

As someone whose posts I respect, I am surprised that you think I am seeking to be divisive. What prompted me to post this topic was Jeff's citing of the PPP poll in PA that showed the race to be even. Unlike many of my liberal compatriots, I don't think a Trump presidency is out of the question. He has tapped into a strain of real discontent with the status quo, as did Bernie.

Since I know friends and associates and even family members who planning on voting for Trump, I assure you that they are not racists or bigots.

I apologize for misreading your intent. It looked to me that you were inviting a flurry of blame-throwing, but as I said in the previous note, there are often good motives that are not clear to me.

I definitely agree that a Trump win can happen. It scares me senseless because I fear his view of leadership is closer to Mussolini than to FDR or Reagan.

Apology accepted and I thank you for it.

In fairness, I sometimes encourage discussion - which is what I sought to do in this instance. My own leanings are decidedly liberal but I can't blindly dismiss what may be the reality. I was the OP on the thread that showed apparently surprising Hispanic support for Trump and you see two schools of reaction - there are those who dismiss the poll because the link was from Fox News although the actual poll was from another entity. Then there are others who were more open to its possible significance.

I think Latino support is probably more than some expect. My DIL is Hispanic and she is planning on voting for Trump as are some of her friends who are also Hispanic. I think the divide is among those who came here legally - and are not activists - where support for Trump is more marked.

For my part, I am fearful of a Trump presidency mainly because he lacks the knowledge that any president should have about world issues. What is even more bothersome is that he does not seem to feel a need to develop that knowledge even after he was likely to get the nomination. He has a authoritarian bent, probably from his background as the CEO of a large company, where everyone does his bidding. He does not seem to realize that it is a different ballgame when you have other players who will not take orders.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am independent but if he wins, I will blame the lack of an educated populace and the fact that politicians and the media (particularly Fox News) do not feel their job is to correct incorrect ideas or information.

It is sad - when they poll other countries, Trump loses by a lot particularly among our allies. But he does win in Russia, China and North Korea where of course, there is an interest in having a malleable person in charge of the US.

I always have a problem with this line of reasoning because it is some within the same populace who voted decisively for Obama in 08 and 12. Rightwing sites always attribute the Obama victory to "low information" voters - so I guess both Democrats and Republicans appear to agree that the uneducated voters are responsible for the victory by the other side.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think Latino support is probably more than some expect. My DIL is Hispanic and she is planning on voting for Trump as are some of her friends who are also Hispanic. I think the divide is among those who came here legally - and are not activists - where support for Trump is more marked.

Did you ask your DIL and your Hispanic friends how they feel about Trump now that he accused a judge of being biased because his parents are Mexican?

takoma wrote:Americans have many different outlook and expectations. Some wonderful people may have well-motivated reasons for voting in ways that seem insane to me. If I am a patriotic American, my loyalty should be to the American people, including those I disagree with, including those misguided enough (in my own personal view) to start divisive threads like this one.

And I hope others will feel that way even about people who write preachy notes like this.