Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
The Op asked what Islam said about divorce and that's what I responded to. The fact that some imams don't follow this has nothing to do with Islam. Just like in the US, you will find Christian, Jewish, atheists, ect women who have to fight for years to get a divorce. Every case is different and the complexities of divorce or each case can't be summed up here. There is nothing in the text of the Quran or hadiths that make getting a divorce difficult, not for the woman or the man, really it shouldn't be that difficult. Citing examples about women who couldn't get a divorce for x, y reason doesn't change this either and saying it's hard to find an imam to grant a divorce to a woman is really false. I know a multitude of women who got divorced here in the US and in Muslim countries and I have yet had to meet one who had any issues of getting a divorce or an imam who refused to grant her a divorce, not a single one. In fact I am one of those women. I got divorced at my request and it took 5 minutes if that much , really lol.

Our niece in KSA had to pay her drug addicted husband 50K before he would agree to a divorce. He'd show up to court stoned out of his mind wearing dark glasses, and the judge would still say, you need sabr, my daughter, go home and reconcile with your husband.

Muslima wrote:
As far as children custody, saying some women are denied custody after a certain age is not correct. There are clear custody rules as well and all the 4 schools of though of Islam have different custody rulings. But for all of them, when the kids are young, they stay with the mother. If she remarries, the father gets custody. In practice though , this is rarely followed, all women that I know still had custody of their kids even after remarriage, men usually never go back to court just for custody, not saying some don't, but most do not.

I think you need to make up your mind whether the scripture or the practice matters most. In your first paragraph you say that what is in the Quran matters most, and it doesn't matter what some imams do. In this paragraph you say that fathers are entitled to custody if the mother remarries but it rarely happens in practice. If you are all about the scripture, then what happens in practice shouldn't matter. If you are all about the practice, then what is written in the scripture shouldn't matter. You cannot remain intellectually honest and say that it doesn't matter what some imams do but it matters what some fathers do.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

Op, yes divorce is allowed in Islam. Both muslim men and women have been getting divorces since the 7th century.  The only time a divorce cant be granted is when the woman is menstruating or if she is pregnant. Also , there is a 3 months waiting period called the Iddah , I guess this would be similar to separation period, before the divorce becomes final. During the iddah, the couple can reconcile which will nullify the divorce but after the iddah, they have to remarry If they want to get back together.

No, not "the couple can reconcile". The man decides whether he takes the wife back or not during these three months. The wife's opinion is not a factor.

That's completely false. Wives are not animals. The wife has an opinion and a say in this, there is no Forced Marriage in Islam

It's in the article that you yourself posted.
"In case divorce happens through the husband, he can take his wife back within three months."

If the wife does not wish to reconcile during a three-month separation period after the husband-initiated divorce, she will need to start her own divorce proceedings. In a husband-initiated divorce, it's the husband decision alone that decides whether the wife is divorced or kept.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

Op, yes divorce is allowed in Islam. Both muslim men and women have been getting divorces since the 7th century.  The only time a divorce cant be granted is when the woman is menstruating or if she is pregnant. Also , there is a 3 months waiting period called the Iddah , I guess this would be similar to separation period, before the divorce becomes final. During the iddah, the couple can reconcile which will nullify the divorce but after the iddah, they have to remarry If they want to get back together.

No, not "the couple can reconcile". The man decides whether he takes the wife back or not during these three months. The wife's opinion is not a factor.

That's completely false. Wives are not animals. The wife has an opinion and a say in this, there is no Forced Marriage in Islam

It's in the article that you yourself posted.
"In case divorce happens through the husband, he can take his wife back within three months."

If the wife does not wish to reconcile during a three-month separation period after the husband-initiated divorce, she will need to start her own divorce proceedings. In a husband-initiated divorce, it's the husband decision alone that decides whether the wife is divorced or kept.

He can take his wife back doesn't mean against her will. Where did it say that? And it cites the husband as taking the wife, because the opposite is not possible. A woman can't marry herself in Islam. You can't take your wife back against her will, forced marriages are invalid

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
The Op asked what Islam said about divorce and that's what I responded to. The fact that some imams don't follow this has nothing to do with Islam. Just like in the US, you will find Christian, Jewish, atheists, ect women who have to fight for years to get a divorce. Every case is different and the complexities of divorce or each case can't be summed up here. There is nothing in the text of the Quran or hadiths that make getting a divorce difficult, not for the woman or the man, really it shouldn't be that difficult. Citing examples about women who couldn't get a divorce for x, y reason doesn't change this either and saying it's hard to find an imam to grant a divorce to a woman is really false. I know a multitude of women who got divorced here in the US and in Muslim countries and I have yet had to meet one who had any issues of getting a divorce or an imam who refused to grant her a divorce, not a single one. In fact I am one of those women. I got divorced at my request and it took 5 minutes if that much , really lol.

Our niece in KSA had to pay her drug addicted husband 50K before he would agree to a divorce. He'd show up to court stoned out of his mind wearing dark glasses, and the judge would still say, you need sabr, my daughter, go home and reconcile with your husband.

Muslima wrote:
As far as children custody, saying some women are denied custody after a certain age is not correct. There are clear custody rules as well and all the 4 schools of though of Islam have different custody rulings. But for all of them, when the kids are young, they stay with the mother. If she remarries, the father gets custody. In practice though , this is rarely followed, all women that I know still had custody of their kids even after remarriage, men usually never go back to court just for custody, not saying some don't, but most do not.

I think you need to make up your mind whether the scripture or the practice matters most. In your first paragraph you say that what is in the Quran matters most, and it doesn't matter what some imams do. In this paragraph you say that fathers are entitled to custody if the mother remarries but it rarely happens in practice. If you are all about the scripture, then what happens in practice shouldn't matter. If you are all about the practice, then what is written in the scripture shouldn't matter. You cannot remain intellectually honest and say that it doesn't matter what some imams do but it matters what some fathers do.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

Op, yes divorce is allowed in Islam. Both muslim men and women have been getting divorces since the 7th century.  The only time a divorce cant be granted is when the woman is menstruating or if she is pregnant. Also , there is a 3 months waiting period called the Iddah , I guess this would be similar to separation period, before the divorce becomes final. During the iddah, the couple can reconcile which will nullify the divorce but after the iddah, they have to remarry If they want to get back together.

No, not "the couple can reconcile". The man decides whether he takes the wife back or not during these three months. The wife's opinion is not a factor.

That's completely false. Wives are not animals. The wife has an opinion and a say in this, there is no Forced Marriage in Islam

It's in the article that you yourself posted.
"In case divorce happens through the husband, he can take his wife back within three months."

If the wife does not wish to reconcile during a three-month separation period after the husband-initiated divorce, she will need to start her own divorce proceedings. In a husband-initiated divorce, it's the husband decision alone that decides whether the wife is divorced or kept.

He can take his wife back doesn't mean against her will. Where did it say that? And it cites the husband as taking the wife, because the opposite is not possible. A woman can't marry herself in Islam. You can't take your wife back against her will, forced marriages are invalid

Right here. You can bring your own ruling if you wish.

http://islamqa.info/en/75027

The wife’s consent is not a condition of taking her back after divorce

The husband has the right to take his wife back and it is not essential that she agree to that, so long as he is taking her back within the ‘iddah of a first or second talaaq, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And divorced women shall wait (as regards their marriage) for three menstrual periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allaah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allaah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allaah is All-Mighty, All-Wise”

[al-Baqarah 2:228]

This verse points to the conditions of taking back the wife, which are:

1- That it applies to talaaq (divorce). If it is the matter of annulment of the marriage, the husband cannot take her back, because Allaah says “And divorced women”.

2- That it should be a revocable divorce, which can only be a first or second talaaq. The phrase “The divorce is twice” [al-Baqarah 2:229] refers to the divorce where it is possible to take back the wife. If the third talaaq takes place, then he cannot take her back unless she marries another husband in a genuine marriage, then he separates from her in a proper manner after consummating the marriage.

3- It should be within the ‘iddah period, because Allaah says “And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period” i.e., during the ‘iddah. If the ‘iddah comes to an end and he wants to take her back, that is only possible with a new marriage contract and mahr.

4- By taking her back, he should not intend to harm her, rather he should intend to reconcile and set things straight, because Allaah says “if they wish for reconciliation”. If he intended to harm her, she has to prove that to the shar’i judge so that he may rule as he sees fit.

The verse clearly indicates that the wife has no choice in the matter if the husband wants to take her back, and she has no right to refuse to go back to him, because Allaah says “And their husbands have the better right to take them back”. Even if she does not go back to his house, if he says he takes her back and brings witnesses to that, then he has in fact taken her back.

The waiting period (idda) for the woman will be similar to that of a woman who was given an irrevocable divorce (ba’in) which is three menstrual cycles. The husband can not take her back within or after the waiting period without her consent (by contracting a new agreement of marriage).

Finally, it should also be remembered that a Khul’ agreement can only be carried out with the consent of the husband. The wife does not have the jurisdiction to enforce Khul’ without the consent of her husband. This is an agreed upon ruling in all of the four Sunni schools of Islamic law.

The great Hanafi jurist, Imam al-Sarakhsi says:

“An agreement of Khul’ is permissible with or without the presence of a judge, as it is a contract that is based on mutual agreement.” (al-Mabsut, 6/173)

The same has also been mentioned in Radd al-Muhtar, al-Fatawa al-Hindiyya and other major works.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
The Op asked what Islam said about divorce and that's what I responded to. The fact that some imams don't follow this has nothing to do with Islam. Just like in the US, you will find Christian, Jewish, atheists, ect women who have to fight for years to get a divorce. Every case is different and the complexities of divorce or each case can't be summed up here. There is nothing in the text of the Quran or hadiths that make getting a divorce difficult, not for the woman or the man, really it shouldn't be that difficult. Citing examples about women who couldn't get a divorce for x, y reason doesn't change this either and saying it's hard to find an imam to grant a divorce to a woman is really false. I know a multitude of women who got divorced here in the US and in Muslim countries and I have yet had to meet one who had any issues of getting a divorce or an imam who refused to grant her a divorce, not a single one. In fact I am one of those women. I got divorced at my request and it took 5 minutes if that much , really lol.

Our niece in KSA had to pay her drug addicted husband 50K before he would agree to a divorce. He'd show up to court stoned out of his mind wearing dark glasses, and the judge would still say, you need sabr, my daughter, go home and reconcile with your husband.

Muslima wrote:
As far as children custody, saying some women are denied custody after a certain age is not correct. There are clear custody rules as well and all the 4 schools of though of Islam have different custody rulings. But for all of them, when the kids are young, they stay with the mother. If she remarries, the father gets custody. In practice though , this is rarely followed, all women that I know still had custody of their kids even after remarriage, men usually never go back to court just for custody, not saying some don't, but most do not.

I think you need to make up your mind whether the scripture or the practice matters most. In your first paragraph you say that what is in the Quran matters most, and it doesn't matter what some imams do. In this paragraph you say that fathers are entitled to custody if the mother remarries but it rarely happens in practice. If you are all about the scripture, then what happens in practice shouldn't matter. If you are all about the practice, then what is written in the scripture shouldn't matter. You cannot remain intellectually honest and say that it doesn't matter what some imams do but it matters what some fathers do.

That's unfortunate for your niece, but really KSA? You do know that they are not the beacon of Islamic enlightenment and this is not the norm in the Muslim world.

Now as far as your simplistic argument about practice/texts, it just shows how little you know about Islam. Of course the Quran supersede practice. Newsflash for you, there is nothing in the Quran about child custody, so the texts im referring to when talking about custody are hadiths and shariah I-e Islamic jurisprudence which is man-made so not set in stone. Shariah changes according to context, time and place. Now When I cited texts earlier and said the text said so , I was referring to the Quran since divorce is discussed in the Quran, the is an entire chapter about it, so in the case of divorce shariah can't supersede the Quran.

Muslima wrote:

This is why it is dangerous to learn Islam by using Sheikh Google or reading Islam for dummies. I'm not going to play this game with you. I can bring you a hundred of other sites that will say the opposite of what you just quotes. Here is just one:

Muslima wrote:“An agreement of Khul’ is permissible with or without the presence of a judge, as it is a contract that is based on mutual agreement.” (al-Mabsut, 6/173)

The same has also been mentioned in Radd al-Muhtar, al-Fatawa al-Hindiyya and other major works.

Muslima wrote:
Do you know who writes the answers on islam q/a? I have read throughout the years many things on that site that make no sense whatsoever. This is why whenever Muslims have a disagreement on a ruling, we have to go back to the source which is the Quran. Why do you think scholars have been debating Fiqh for the past centuries? Because Islamic jurisprudence is complex on matters that are not clear in the Quran, scholars debate these things for years and more often than not do not agree. So we follow the Quran first, and if there is a disagreement amongst scholars on a particular issue, the ruling is you are free to follow whatever scholar you choose, meaning of course someone reputable that you trust , not sheikh google.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
The Op asked what Islam said about divorce and that's what I responded to. The fact that some imams don't follow this has nothing to do with Islam. Just like in the US, you will find Christian, Jewish, atheists, ect women who have to fight for years to get a divorce. Every case is different and the complexities of divorce or each case can't be summed up here. There is nothing in the text of the Quran or hadiths that make getting a divorce difficult, not for the woman or the man, really it shouldn't be that difficult. Citing examples about women who couldn't get a divorce for x, y reason doesn't change this either and saying it's hard to find an imam to grant a divorce to a woman is really false. I know a multitude of women who got divorced here in the US and in Muslim countries and I have yet had to meet one who had any issues of getting a divorce or an imam who refused to grant her a divorce, not a single one. In fact I am one of those women. I got divorced at my request and it took 5 minutes if that much , really lol.

Our niece in KSA had to pay her drug addicted husband 50K before he would agree to a divorce. He'd show up to court stoned out of his mind wearing dark glasses, and the judge would still say, you need sabr, my daughter, go home and reconcile with your husband.

Muslima wrote:
As far as children custody, saying some women are denied custody after a certain age is not correct. There are clear custody rules as well and all the 4 schools of though of Islam have different custody rulings. But for all of them, when the kids are young, they stay with the mother. If she remarries, the father gets custody. In practice though , this is rarely followed, all women that I know still had custody of their kids even after remarriage, men usually never go back to court just for custody, not saying some don't, but most do not.

I think you need to make up your mind whether the scripture or the practice matters most. In your first paragraph you say that what is in the Quran matters most, and it doesn't matter what some imams do. In this paragraph you say that fathers are entitled to custody if the mother remarries but it rarely happens in practice. If you are all about the scripture, then what happens in practice shouldn't matter. If you are all about the practice, then what is written in the scripture shouldn't matter. You cannot remain intellectually honest and say that it doesn't matter what some imams do but it matters what some fathers do.

That's unfortunate for your niece, but really KSA? You do know that they are not the beacon of Islamic enlightenment and this is not the norm in the Muslim world.

Now as far as your simplistic argument about practice/texts, it just shows how little you know about Islam. Of course the Quran supersede practice. Newsflash for you, there is nothing in the Quran about child custody, so the texts im referring to when talking about custody are hadiths and shariah I-e Islamic jurisprudence which is man-made so not set in stone. Shariah changes according to context, time and place. Now When I cited texts earlier and said the text said so , I was referring to the Quran since divorce is discussed in the Quran, the is an entire chapter about it, so in the case of divorce shariah can't supersede the Quran.

I see. So your argument is, is it not, that practice matters when referring to hadith and shariah, but does not matter when referring to the Quran? Is that the gist of it?

Then please, o the enlightened one, cite for us what the Quran says on women-initiated divorces.

Please also tell us when the last change to shariah was made, with dates, if possible.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
The Op asked what Islam said about divorce and that's what I responded to. The fact that some imams don't follow this has nothing to do with Islam. Just like in the US, you will find Christian, Jewish, atheists, ect women who have to fight for years to get a divorce. Every case is different and the complexities of divorce or each case can't be summed up here. There is nothing in the text of the Quran or hadiths that make getting a divorce difficult, not for the woman or the man, really it shouldn't be that difficult. Citing examples about women who couldn't get a divorce for x, y reason doesn't change this either and saying it's hard to find an imam to grant a divorce to a woman is really false. I know a multitude of women who got divorced here in the US and in Muslim countries and I have yet had to meet one who had any issues of getting a divorce or an imam who refused to grant her a divorce, not a single one. In fact I am one of those women. I got divorced at my request and it took 5 minutes if that much , really lol.

Our niece in KSA had to pay her drug addicted husband 50K before he would agree to a divorce. He'd show up to court stoned out of his mind wearing dark glasses, and the judge would still say, you need sabr, my daughter, go home and reconcile with your husband.

Muslima wrote:
As far as children custody, saying some women are denied custody after a certain age is not correct. There are clear custody rules as well and all the 4 schools of though of Islam have different custody rulings. But for all of them, when the kids are young, they stay with the mother. If she remarries, the father gets custody. In practice though , this is rarely followed, all women that I know still had custody of their kids even after remarriage, men usually never go back to court just for custody, not saying some don't, but most do not.

I think you need to make up your mind whether the scripture or the practice matters most. In your first paragraph you say that what is in the Quran matters most, and it doesn't matter what some imams do. In this paragraph you say that fathers are entitled to custody if the mother remarries but it rarely happens in practice. If you are all about the scripture, then what happens in practice shouldn't matter. If you are all about the practice, then what is written in the scripture shouldn't matter. You cannot remain intellectually honest and say that it doesn't matter what some imams do but it matters what some fathers do.

That's unfortunate for your niece, but really KSA? You do know that they are not the beacon of Islamic enlightenment and this is not the norm in the Muslim world.

Now as far as your simplistic argument about practice/texts, it just shows how little you know about Islam. Of course the Quran supersede practice. Newsflash for you, there is nothing in the Quran about child custody, so the texts im referring to when talking about custody are hadiths and shariah I-e Islamic jurisprudence which is man-made so not set in stone. Shariah changes according to context, time and place. Now When I cited texts earlier and said the text said so , I was referring to the Quran since divorce is discussed in the Quran, the is an entire chapter about it, so in the case of divorce shariah can't supersede the Quran.

I see. So your argument is, is it not, that practice matters when referring to hadith and shariah, but does not matter when referring to the Quran? Is that the gist of it?

Then please, o the enlightened one, cite for us what the Quran says on women-initiated divorces.

Please also tell us when the last change to shariah was made, with dates, if possible.

Google it! Self-imposed ignorance isn't bliss and I don't have the patience, the will or time to educate you.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
The Op asked what Islam said about divorce and that's what I responded to. The fact that some imams don't follow this has nothing to do with Islam. Just like in the US, you will find Christian, Jewish, atheists, ect women who have to fight for years to get a divorce. Every case is different and the complexities of divorce or each case can't be summed up here. There is nothing in the text of the Quran or hadiths that make getting a divorce difficult, not for the woman or the man, really it shouldn't be that difficult. Citing examples about women who couldn't get a divorce for x, y reason doesn't change this either and saying it's hard to find an imam to grant a divorce to a woman is really false. I know a multitude of women who got divorced here in the US and in Muslim countries and I have yet had to meet one who had any issues of getting a divorce or an imam who refused to grant her a divorce, not a single one. In fact I am one of those women. I got divorced at my request and it took 5 minutes if that much , really lol.

Our niece in KSA had to pay her drug addicted husband 50K before he would agree to a divorce. He'd show up to court stoned out of his mind wearing dark glasses, and the judge would still say, you need sabr, my daughter, go home and reconcile with your husband.

Muslima wrote:
As far as children custody, saying some women are denied custody after a certain age is not correct. There are clear custody rules as well and all the 4 schools of though of Islam have different custody rulings. But for all of them, when the kids are young, they stay with the mother. If she remarries, the father gets custody. In practice though , this is rarely followed, all women that I know still had custody of their kids even after remarriage, men usually never go back to court just for custody, not saying some don't, but most do not.

I think you need to make up your mind whether the scripture or the practice matters most. In your first paragraph you say that what is in the Quran matters most, and it doesn't matter what some imams do. In this paragraph you say that fathers are entitled to custody if the mother remarries but it rarely happens in practice. If you are all about the scripture, then what happens in practice shouldn't matter. If you are all about the practice, then what is written in the scripture shouldn't matter. You cannot remain intellectually honest and say that it doesn't matter what some imams do but it matters what some fathers do.

That's unfortunate for your niece, but really KSA? You do know that they are not the beacon of Islamic enlightenment and this is not the norm in the Muslim world.

Now as far as your simplistic argument about practice/texts, it just shows how little you know about Islam. Of course the Quran supersede practice. Newsflash for you, there is nothing in the Quran about child custody, so the texts im referring to when talking about custody are hadiths and shariah I-e Islamic jurisprudence which is man-made so not set in stone. Shariah changes according to context, time and place. Now When I cited texts earlier and said the text said so , I was referring to the Quran since divorce is discussed in the Quran, the is an entire chapter about it, so in the case of divorce shariah can't supersede the Quran.

I see. So your argument is, is it not, that practice matters when referring to hadith and shariah, but does not matter when referring to the Quran? Is that the gist of it?

Then please, o the enlightened one, cite for us what the Quran says on women-initiated divorces.

Please also tell us when the last change to shariah was made, with dates, if possible.

Google it! Self-imposed ignorance isn't bliss and I don't have the patience, the will or time to educate you.

That's 'cause you can't.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to say Talaq, Talaq, Talaq - 3 times to your wife in front of witnesses.

If you divorce her once and want to remarry her, she will need to marry another person first, consummate that marriage and hope that he divorces her before you can marry her again.


A clever way to ensure that people do not divorce for trivial reasons.

This is completely false!! First of all you do not need to say Talaq to your wife 3 times for a divorce to happen. 2nd of all, you can remarry your spouse 3 times after divorcing her 3 times. The only time she has to marry someone else before you can remarry her is after the 3rd divorce between the same 2 spouses, and yes this would be to prevent trivial divorces

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to say Talaq, Talaq, Talaq - 3 times to your wife in front of witnesses.

If you divorce her once and want to remarry her, she will need to marry another person first, consummate that marriage and hope that he divorces her before you can marry her again.


A clever way to ensure that people do not divorce for trivial reasons.

This is completely false!! First of all you do not need to say Talaq to your wife 3 times for a divorce to happen. 2nd of all, you can remarry your spouse 3 times after divorcing her 3 times. The only time she has to marry someone else before you can remarry her is after the 3rd divorce between the same 2 spouses, and yes this would be to prevent trivial divorces

It sounds like you're saying that the part about a man repeating the word "talaq" three times to his wife, and then he's divorced her, is "completely false." But wasn't that part of the post, at least, true? And a woman cannot divorce her husband by repeating "talaq" three times, instead she needs to go before a judge, right? Is all of this in the Quran, hadith or practice?