Does ISLAM allow divorce? If so, under what conditions?

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Also, I've know at least one case where the man said talaq three times in front of a witness (wife was not present) and the divorce counted. The wife's family used their influence to make him lose a position he had recently been appointed to.

Scholars differ on whether notifying the wife is a condition of divorce. Some say only the intention counts. Common sense says wife must be notified.
Anonymous
She was notified just before he hopped aboard a plane for his new position (it was overseas). While he was in the air, the wife's family got him recalled so when he landed he was put directly on a plane back to his country. Revenge can be sweet when it is successful.
Anonymous
Well, it does have to be noted that there is nothing in the religion itself that prevents wife from guaranteeing the rights of divorce for herself. Marriage in Islam is not a sacrament. It's a civil contract, and like any contract, it can (and should) be preceded by negotiations. If you want to write into your contract that your husband must give you a new BMW every month, you can. It's the culture and societal pressures that prevent women from participating directly in their marital negotiation - typically, a woman's guardian negotiates on her behalf, and while a 30-something educated woman from a wealthy family is likely to manage the process herself, a typical sheltered 18-year old virgin right out of high school may not have either the confidence or the wherewithal to know her rights and insist on her guardian's attention to her requests.

In fact, as a non-Muslim wife of a Muslim husband, I feel that Islam's legal framework affords divorce rights to women that are more liberal than, say, conservative Jewish or Catholic laws. But I'm 40+ with balls of steel so I pretty much dictated what's in my contract to the imam. The problem is that the cultural and societal forces in Muslim-majority societies do not make it easy for women who aren't like me. It's out of the question for a typical 18-year old to say, daddy, I want to sit in all your negotiation with the groom's family and I will tell them directly what I want in my contract and I don't want anyone telling me otherwise. It's simply not done.
Anonymous
I agree--the pressure would be enormous, even for a twenty something. It could start all sorts of gossip with the putative groom's family. Why should he (or they) marry her when she's already planning to divorce him? Asking for this could end the negotiation except as PP notes where the bride to be is older and educated and asking for this is a sign of her education (and value).

It would be different of course if the girl's father asked on her behalf--then it wouldn't be attributed to her, but rather seen as a man looking out for all contingencies for his daughter. But few fathers are so perspacacious.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Muslima wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Muslima wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Muslima wrote:
Anonymous wrote:.


Op, yes divorce is allowed in Islam. Both muslim men and women have been getting divorces since the 7th century.  The only time a divorce cant be granted is when the woman is menstruating or if she is pregnant. Also , there is a 3 months waiting period called the Iddah , I guess this would be similar to separation period, before the divorce becomes final. During the iddah, the couple can reconcile which will nullify the divorce but after the iddah, they have to remarry If they want to get back together.

No, not "the couple can reconcile". The man decides whether he takes the wife back or not during these three months. The wife's opinion is not a factor.


That's completely false. Wives are not animals. The wife has an opinion and a say in this, there is no Forced Marriage in Islam

It's in the article that you yourself posted.
"In case divorce happens through the husband, he can take his wife back within three months."

If the wife does not wish to reconcile during a three-month separation period after the husband-initiated divorce, she will need to start her own divorce proceedings. In a husband-initiated divorce, it's the husband decision alone that decides whether the wife is divorced or kept.


He can take his wife back doesn't mean against her will. Where did it say that? And it cites the husband as taking the wife, because the opposite is not possible. A woman can't marry herself in Islam. You can't take your wife back against her will, forced marriages are invalid


Right here. You can bring your own ruling if you wish.

http://islamqa.info/en/75027

The wife’s consent is not a condition of taking her back after divorce

The husband has the right to take his wife back and it is not essential that she agree to that, so long as he is taking her back within the ‘iddah of a first or second talaaq, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And divorced women shall wait (as regards their marriage) for three menstrual periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allaah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allaah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allaah is All-Mighty, All-Wise”

[al-Baqarah 2:228]

This verse points to the conditions of taking back the wife, which are:

1- That it applies to talaaq (divorce). If it is the matter of annulment of the marriage, the husband cannot take her back, because Allaah says “And divorced women”.

2- That it should be a revocable divorce, which can only be a first or second talaaq. The phrase “The divorce is twice” [al-Baqarah 2:229] refers to the divorce where it is possible to take back the wife. If the third talaaq takes place, then he cannot take her back unless she marries another husband in a genuine marriage, then he separates from her in a proper manner after consummating the marriage.

3- It should be within the ‘iddah period, because Allaah says “And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period” i.e., during the ‘iddah. If the ‘iddah comes to an end and he wants to take her back, that is only possible with a new marriage contract and mahr.

4- By taking her back, he should not intend to harm her, rather he should intend to reconcile and set things straight, because Allaah says “if they wish for reconciliation”. If he intended to harm her, she has to prove that to the shar’i judge so that he may rule as he sees fit.

The verse clearly indicates that the wife has no choice in the matter if the husband wants to take her back, and she has no right to refuse to go back to him, because Allaah says “And their husbands have the better right to take them back”. Even if she does not go back to his house, if he says he takes her back and brings witnesses to that, then he has in fact taken her back.


Maybe you should not rely on google searches for authentic evidence. Just a thought.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Muslima wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Above is for men. Women do not have the right of divorce automatically, although they can write it into the marriage contract. Obviously, however, writing it in raises eyebrows so socially may be difficult to pull off.

Other than that, a woman can petition the Islamic court for a divorce for cause. Depending on the country, this could be extremely hard to obtain, even with more dire reasons like the husband is imprisoned or is a drug addict. Taking a second wife would not be cause for divorce as Muslim men are permitted more than one wife.


False again! Both men and women have the right to get a divorce for any reason and yes you can get a divorce if your husband gets a 2nd wife, you can get a divorce if you hate his guts , you can get a divorce just because you don't like him, really you can get a divorce for almost anything. The only difference between a husband and wife is
1., A husband has the right to divorce his wife at any time by just saying I divorce you and having the intention to divorce her.
2. A wife needs to ask for her husband to divorce her, ie she can't just say I divorce you and sever the marriage. She had to ask him and he has to agree to divorce her. If he doesn't agree, she can go to any imam and ask for a divorce, at which point the imam will grant a divorce whether the husband wants it or not.


True--forgot the step where she can ask her husband to divorce her because in practice this is often not readily agreed to. There are plenty of cases where the religious authorities will not grant the woman her request to divorce where her husband disagrees but rather encourage her to try reconciliation instead.

As I said, this depends on the country--imams in Lebanon would more likely grant the request than those in Afghanistan. But it is not a walk in the park in the U.S. even. As this article shows, women often go "imam shopping" for years to find one that will grant her a divorce, even in relatively straightforward cases of physical abuse.

http://www.arabamericannews.com/news/news/id_7475


Also, in cases of divorce women are almost always denied custody of their children if they are over a certain age.


This is NOT true. Please refer to the organization Karamah of Muslim women lawyers who are also knowledgeable about islamic law. Here is a Q and A from their web site on this issue:


http://karamah.org/resources/ask-zahra
Could you provide some insight into the mother’s right to the custody, hadanah, of her children, male and female, in the case of divorce in Islamic law? Does she have the right to keep them with her? Is there an age limit as to how long she can do so? What if the mother wishes to remarry? Does she loose her right to the custody of her children?
In the event of divorce, the term hadanah in Islamic law refers to the upbringing of a minor child by the mother or by someone who is legally entitled to it. The Arabic root of the word hadanah, literally means to hold in one’s arms, to embrace, and to place on the lap. A broader definition of the word refers to nursing, bringing up and raising a child. The concept of hadanah therefore refers to taking physical care of a child who is not able to do so by him/herself. It includes protection, love and care, education, and sheltering. In this context, Hadanah does not entail any legal responsibility or rights over the child. Legal and financial guardianship is referred to by the term wilayah, and has different rules in Islamic law.
The Qur’an did not address the question of hadanah directly, but general guidelines can be found in verses such as “And whatever the messenger has given you take, and whatever he has forbidden you refrain from”[1] . There are however numerous hadiths that dealt with the issue, in one instance for example, a woman came to the prophet and complained that her husband divorced her and wishes to take her child away from her. She said: “Messenger of God, this is my son, my womb contained him, my lap held him, and my breasts nurtured him; but his father divorced me and wishes to take him away from me. The prophet said: “You have the first right to him as long as you do not remarry.”[2] Subsequently, records of the sahabah show that the mother was always given preference over the father in matters of hadanah in the early stages of her children’s life. In an interesting incident, Abu Bakr, the first khalifah, ruled in favor of Omar’s ex-wife, Um ‘Assim, and granted her the custody of her child saying: “I heard the prophet say: a mother should not be separated from her child.” [3]
Needless to say that the emphasis in dealing with all hadanah matters is on the best interest of the child. Giving priority to the mother is therefore based on the assumption that it serves the child’s best interest, the mother being best at nurturing her child and meeting his/her needs. In fact, Muslim scholars have been so driven by the child’s best interest that they concluded that hadanah is the right of the child not the parents. Subsequently, it falls on the shoulders of the parent who is best qualified to meet the physical, emotional and educational needs of the child, the mother being better qualified during the early stages of life. The Shafi’is parted from this view and decided that it is a joint right of the mother and the child.
Muslim Sunni schools of legal thought differ on the age limit of hadanah. Here again as in other instances where women’s status and rights are an issue, cultural influences have transcended Qur’anic principles in shaping Muslim scholars’ understanding and rulings. The Hanafis for instance, ruled that in case the mother has the hadanah of her children, she keeps her daughter until the age of nine (9), at which age the girl becomes the object of sexual desire for men and needs her father’s protection. Worst yet, the Hanbalis define the age limit of hadanah for the girl at seven (7), at which age her hadanah goes to the father. The latter is in their view more trusted to protect and preserve his daughter until she gets married. Surprisingly, the Malikis differ from both views and rule that the girl stays with her mother until she marries. Their reasoning, however, falls in the same patriarchal trap as they justify their ruling by the fact that the mother is more likely to understand her daughter’s needs as she steps into womanhood and teach her the skills that would enable her to be a good wife. Only the Shafi’is steer away from this line of thinking and state that the child, female or male, stays with his/her mother until the age of seven (7), at which age they can choose whether to stay with the mother or live with their father. Modern scholars generally agree that the age limit for the mother’s hadanah is seven years for boys and nine for girls, after which they move to their father’s care.
There is a consensus among Muslim scholars from all Sunni schools that the mother always comes first in the line of females granted the hadanah of a child in the early years of life unless she is morally unfit to assume such responsibility or she willingly forfeits it. Hadanah moves in this case to the next female in the line, generally the maternal grandmother or the maternal aunt. The father comes after a long line of females alternating between the maternal and the paternal sides. The Hanafis for instance give priority to the mother, her mother, the father’s mother, then come the sisters: sister from the mother and father, maternal sister, and paternal; then the maternal aunt, and finally the paternal aunt.
The Malikis give priority to the mother, the mother’s mother, then the maternal aunt. Hadanah goes next to the females from the father’s side, starting by his mother then her mother, his sister, his aunt, and finally it goes to his niece. The Shafi’is start with the mother, then her mother and the mother’s mother, then it is transferred to those who inherit of her mother, then the sister, the maternal aunt, and finally the paternal aunt. Finally the Hanbalis state that after the mother, hadanah goes to her mother, then grandmother after which it goes to the father and females from his side.
In case the mother wishes to remarry, Most Sunni scholars rule that she loose her right of hadanah, which moves to the next female in line, unless she marries someone related to her child, his/her paternal uncle for instance. This puts the mother between a rock and a hard place as she has to choose between her children and starting a new life for herself. Imam Ibn Hanbal slightly parts from this view and rules that in case the mother remarries, the boy’s hadanah goes to the father, but the girl stays in the care of her mother.[4] They justify their ruling by the fact that caring for children is a big responsibility that no man will tolerate sharing his wife’s attention with her children from a previous marriage. However, this consensus has been questioned by two great Muslim scholars, first al-Hasan al-Basri, states that the mother keeps the right to the hadanah of her children, male and female, regardless of whether she remarries or not[5].
The second scholar, Ibn Hasm al Andalussi, engages in a long counter-argumentation to refute the arguments used to rob the mother from her right to care for her children and yet have a new life for herself. He starts by the strong affirmation that: “The mother is more entitled to the hadanah of her young son and young daughter until they reach puberty and they are mentally able and physically fit whether she (the mother) is a free woman or a slave, got remarried or not, and whether the father lives in the same city or moves to a different one.[6]” After this strong introduction, he exposes the flaws in the Muslim scholars’ consensus about this issue. Not only there are no valid arguments from the Qur’an or Sunnah that support their position, but to the opposite, there are verses and hadiths that support the mother’s right to keep her children’s hadanah even in the event of her remarriage. First, the Qur’an says: “Mothers shall suckle their children for two full years.[7]” It therefore the mother’s divine right to keep their children for the whole breastfeeding period regardless of whether they remarry or not and it is not permissible for anyone to take away a right granted by God. Second, there are many hadiths that imply that mothers are entitled to their childern’s hadanah even after they remarry. In one instance, the step father of Anas ibn Malik came to the prophet and asked him to take Anas as a personal assistant. Anas was 10 years old at the time and he was living with his mother and her husband Abu Talhah, the step father in question. In another instance, hadith shows that Umm Salamah married the prophet and yet kept her children from her previous marriage with her. Finally, there is no hadith sahih [authentic hadith] stating that the mother loses her children’s hadanah if she remarries[8]. As to the hadiths that are usually quoted to support the argument that the mother’s remarriage cancels out her right to hadanah, Ibn hazm dismisses them for obvious flaws in the chain of narration or the credibility of narrators, including the record involving Abu Bakr and Omar. He then concludes: “We therefore state that the mother’s remarriage does not cancel out her right to hadanah provided she is trustworthy and her new husband is trustworthy as well and this is supported by the texts to which we referred[9].”
And God knows best.
Raja El Habti
Director of Research

Anonymous
Apparently the Internet has multiple sources with multiple interpretations from multiple lawyers who all think they're 'right."
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Apparently the Internet has multiple sources with multiple interpretations from multiple lawyers who all think they're 'right."


Isn't that the way with all religions? Religion is not monolithic. Anything humans touch changes....
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Apparently the Internet has multiple sources with multiple interpretations from multiple lawyers who all think they're 'right."


Isn't that the way with all religions? Religion is not monolithic. Anything humans touch changes....


Karamah is a group of Muslim lawyers who are trained in islamic law. So a little bit more knowledgeable than you and I.
Anonymous
Karamah is a group of women Muslim lawyers for human rights as proclaimed on their website. There are many, many male Islamic judges and the like who would be very likely to disagree with their viewpoint.
Anonymous
Muslima wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Above is for men. Women do not have the right of divorce automatically, although they can write it into the marriage contract. Obviously, however, writing it in raises eyebrows so socially may be difficult to pull off.

Other than that, a woman can petition the Islamic court for a divorce for cause. Depending on the country, this could be extremely hard to obtain, even with more dire reasons like the husband is imprisoned or is a drug addict. Taking a second wife would not be cause for divorce as Muslim men are permitted more than one wife.


False again! Both men and women have the right to get a divorce for any reason and yes you can get a divorce if your husband gets a 2nd wife, you can get a divorce if you hate his guts , you can get a divorce just because you don't like him, really you can get a divorce for almost anything. The only difference between a husband and wife is
1., A husband has the right to divorce his wife at any time by just saying I divorce you and having the intention to divorce her.
2. A wife needs to ask for her husband to divorce her, ie she can't just say I divorce you and sever the marriage. She had to ask him and he has to agree to divorce her. If he doesn't agree, she can go to any imam and ask for a divorce, at which point the imam will grant a divorce whether the husband wants it or not.


Good luck with this while actually living in an islamic country. How many women have killed themselves, have been killed, have been shunned and shamed by their families etc. because they wanted a divorce but couldn't get one. Half truths again. Theory is one thing - what happens in real life is a completely different story.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Muslima wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Above is for men. Women do not have the right of divorce automatically, although they can write it into the marriage contract. Obviously, however, writing it in raises eyebrows so socially may be difficult to pull off.

Other than that, a woman can petition the Islamic court for a divorce for cause. Depending on the country, this could be extremely hard to obtain, even with more dire reasons like the husband is imprisoned or is a drug addict. Taking a second wife would not be cause for divorce as Muslim men are permitted more than one wife.


False again! Both men and women have the right to get a divorce for any reason and yes you can get a divorce if your husband gets a 2nd wife, you can get a divorce if you hate his guts , you can get a divorce just because you don't like him, really you can get a divorce for almost anything. The only difference between a husband and wife is
1., A husband has the right to divorce his wife at any time by just saying I divorce you and having the intention to divorce her.
2. A wife needs to ask for her husband to divorce her, ie she can't just say I divorce you and sever the marriage. She had to ask him and he has to agree to divorce her. If he doesn't agree, she can go to any imam and ask for a divorce, at which point the imam will grant a divorce whether the husband wants it or not.


Good luck with this while actually living in an islamic country. How many women have killed themselves, have been killed, have been shunned and shamed by their families etc. because they wanted a divorce but couldn't get one. Half truths again. Theory is one thing - what happens in real life is a completely different story.


It's completely false that "she can go to any imam and ask for divorce, at which point the imam will grant a divorce whether the husband wants it or not." Utter, unadulterated lie. There is nothing in theory or in the code of laws that compels the imam to dissolve the marriage "whether the husband wants it or not." If that were true, women wouldn't have to imam-shop for years to get out of their marriages.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Muslima wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Above is for men. Women do not have the right of divorce automatically, although they can write it into the marriage contract. Obviously, however, writing it in raises eyebrows so socially may be difficult to pull off.

Other than that, a woman can petition the Islamic court for a divorce for cause. Depending on the country, this could be extremely hard to obtain, even with more dire reasons like the husband is imprisoned or is a drug addict. Taking a second wife would not be cause for divorce as Muslim men are permitted more than one wife.


False again! Both men and women have the right to get a divorce for any reason and yes you can get a divorce if your husband gets a 2nd wife, you can get a divorce if you hate his guts , you can get a divorce just because you don't like him, really you can get a divorce for almost anything. The only difference between a husband and wife is
1., A husband has the right to divorce his wife at any time by just saying I divorce you and having the intention to divorce her.
2. A wife needs to ask for her husband to divorce her, ie she can't just say I divorce you and sever the marriage. She had to ask him and he has to agree to divorce her. If he doesn't agree, she can go to any imam and ask for a divorce, at which point the imam will grant a divorce whether the husband wants it or not.


Good luck with this while actually living in an islamic country. How many women have killed themselves, have been killed, have been shunned and shamed by their families etc. because they wanted a divorce but couldn't get one. Half truths again. Theory is one thing - what happens in real life is a completely different story.


You don't need luck just in Islamic countries. It can be hard to get an Islamic divorce in the U.S. as well. As posted above:

http://www.arabamericannews.com/news/news/id_7475
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Muslima wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Above is for men. Women do not have the right of divorce automatically, although they can write it into the marriage contract. Obviously, however, writing it in raises eyebrows so socially may be difficult to pull off.

Other than that, a woman can petition the Islamic court for a divorce for cause. Depending on the country, this could be extremely hard to obtain, even with more dire reasons like the husband is imprisoned or is a drug addict. Taking a second wife would not be cause for divorce as Muslim men are permitted more than one wife.


False again! Both men and women have the right to get a divorce for any reason and yes you can get a divorce if your husband gets a 2nd wife, you can get a divorce if you hate his guts , you can get a divorce just because you don't like him, really you can get a divorce for almost anything. The only difference between a husband and wife is
1., A husband has the right to divorce his wife at any time by just saying I divorce you and having the intention to divorce her.
2. A wife needs to ask for her husband to divorce her, ie she can't just say I divorce you and sever the marriage. She had to ask him and he has to agree to divorce her. If he doesn't agree, she can go to any imam and ask for a divorce, at which point the imam will grant a divorce whether the husband wants it or not.


Good luck with this while actually living in an islamic country. How many women have killed themselves, have been killed, have been shunned and shamed by their families etc. because they wanted a divorce but couldn't get one. Half truths again. Theory is one thing - what happens in real life is a completely different story.


It's completely false that "she can go to any imam and ask for divorce, at which point the imam will grant a divorce whether the husband wants it or not." Utter, unadulterated lie. There is nothing in theory or in the code of laws that compels the imam to dissolve the marriage "whether the husband wants it or not." If that were true, women wouldn't have to imam-shop for years to get out of their marriages.


I think previous posters have said this but I'll say it again: what people do, how hard a time they had in getting a divorce in other countries has no bearing on and is not a reflection of the religion itself. You keep confusing practice with the religion. Two entirely separate things. You can't rely on google stories and anecdotal evidence as your research for understanding the religion of Islam. If your goal is to find sad stories about Muslims, you can find it anywhere. However if your goal is to learn about Islam, you should stop relying on how it is practiced and learn the principles of Islam.
Anonymous
Please tell us the country where any Muslim woman who wants a divorce can go to any imam and he will grant her her request.

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