Anonymous wrote:

FruminousBandersnatch wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is a terrific article on proof of the soul, or if not proof, at least something that current science can not explain:

SATURDAY, APR 21, 2012 04:00 PM EDT
Near death, explained
New science is shedding light on what really happens during out-of-body experiences -- with shocking results.
MARIO BEAUREGARD

Near death, explained
This article was adapted from the new book "Brain Wars", from Harper One.

...
Mario Beauregard is associate research professor at the Departments of Psychology and Radiology and the Neuroscience Research Center at the University of Montreal. He is the coauthor of "The Spiritual Brain" and more than one hundred publications in neuroscience, psychology and psychiatry.

The article was on Salon.com in 2012 at http://www.salon.com/2012/04/21/near_death_explained/

The article prompted this response from PZ Myers, who writes the science blog Pharyngula: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/04/30/near-death-rehashed/

Myers' response included a quote from The Spiritual Brain. I'll let you be the judge of Beauregard's scientific conclusions:

“Individual minds and selves arise from and are linked together by a divine Ground of Being (or primordial matrix). That is the spaceless, timeless, and infinite Spirit, which is the ever-present source of cosmic order, the matrix of the whole universe, including both physics (material nature) and psyche (spiritual nature). Mind and consciousness represent a fundamental and irreducible property of the Ground of Being. Not only does the subjective experience of the phenomenal world exist within mind and consciousness, but mind, consciousness, and self profoundly affect the physical world…it is this fundamental unity and interconnectedness that allows the human mind to causally affect physical reality and permits psi interaction between humans and with physical or biological systems. With regard to this issue, it is interesting to note that quantum physicists increasingly recognize the mental nature of the universe.”

Ahhhhh, yes, PZ Myers. While Dr. Beauregard's information has been confirmed in the Lancet, the world's most prestigious medical publication, PZ Myers is nothing but a zebrafish researcher who should go back to playing with his zebrafish.

FruminousBandersnatch wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

FruminousBandersnatch wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is a terrific article on proof of the soul, or if not proof, at least something that current science can not explain:

SATURDAY, APR 21, 2012 04:00 PM EDT
Near death, explained
New science is shedding light on what really happens during out-of-body experiences -- with shocking results.
MARIO BEAUREGARD

Near death, explained
This article was adapted from the new book "Brain Wars", from Harper One.

...
Mario Beauregard is associate research professor at the Departments of Psychology and Radiology and the Neuroscience Research Center at the University of Montreal. He is the coauthor of "The Spiritual Brain" and more than one hundred publications in neuroscience, psychology and psychiatry.

The article was on Salon.com in 2012 at http://www.salon.com/2012/04/21/near_death_explained/

The article prompted this response from PZ Myers, who writes the science blog Pharyngula: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/04/30/near-death-rehashed/

Myers' response included a quote from The Spiritual Brain. I'll let you be the judge of Beauregard's scientific conclusions:

“Individual minds and selves arise from and are linked together by a divine Ground of Being (or primordial matrix). That is the spaceless, timeless, and infinite Spirit, which is the ever-present source of cosmic order, the matrix of the whole universe, including both physics (material nature) and psyche (spiritual nature). Mind and consciousness represent a fundamental and irreducible property of the Ground of Being. Not only does the subjective experience of the phenomenal world exist within mind and consciousness, but mind, consciousness, and self profoundly affect the physical world…it is this fundamental unity and interconnectedness that allows the human mind to causally affect physical reality and permits psi interaction between humans and with physical or biological systems. With regard to this issue, it is interesting to note that quantum physicists increasingly recognize the mental nature of the universe.”

Ahhhhh, yes, PZ Myers. While Dr. Beauregard's information has been confirmed in the Lancet, the world's most prestigious medical publication, PZ Myers is nothing but a zebrafish researcher who should go back to playing with his zebrafish.

Do you have a cite for the Lancet article? The article you posted came from Salon.com and was excerpted from Beauregard's book. When you go to Lancet.com and search for Beauregard as an author, no articles about near-death experiences come up for any of the Lancet journals.

Anonymous wrote:Bearegards information was confirmed in the Lancet article. Both conclude that science can not explain the phenomena of near death experience, and there must be some other explanation. Thousands of people across various religions and culture report similar experiences after death. They report hearing details of conversations, seeing particular people, etc..They can't all be lying. Current science can not explain it.

Anonymous wrote:Bearegards information was confirmed in the Lancet article. Both conclude that science can not explain the phenomena of near death experience, and there must be some other explanation. Thousands of people across various religions and culture report similar experiences after death. They report hearing details of conversations, seeing particular people, etc..They can't all be lying. Current science can not explain it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bearegards information was confirmed in the Lancet article. Both conclude that science can not explain the phenomena of near death experience, and there must be some other explanation. Thousands of people across various religions and culture report similar experiences after death. They report hearing details of conversations, seeing particular people, etc..They can't all be lying. Current science can not explain it.

I doubt many (if any) of them are lying about what they believe they experienced, however neuroscience has provided some explanations. Even if it were a completely inexplicable mystery, it's a VERY long leap from "something's going on that we can't explain" to Beauregards's "divine Ground of Being."

Lack of an explanation does not automatically mean that a supernatural explanation is the only possible explanation. Science has demonstrated repeatedly that what has been believed to be a supernatural event is actually explicable via natural causes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bearegards information was confirmed in the Lancet article. Both conclude that science can not explain the phenomena of near death experience, and there must be some other explanation. Thousands of people across various religions and culture report similar experiences after death. They report hearing details of conversations, seeing particular people, etc..They can't all be lying. Current science can not explain it.

I doubt many (if any) of them are lying about what they believe they experienced, however neuroscience has provided some explanations. Even if it were a completely inexplicable mystery, it's a VERY long leap from "something's going on that we can't explain" to Beauregards's "divine Ground of Being."

Lack of an explanation does not automatically mean that a supernatural explanation is the only possible explanation. Science has demonstrated repeatedly that what has been believed to be a supernatural event is actually explicable via natural causes.

When your EEG shows there are no brain waves and you are, by medical definition, dead, then there should be no consciousness. There should be no remembrance of what happened to your body or conversations around you while your brain was not functioning. You should not be able to hear conversations in other rooms down the hall or on other floors either. If your EEG shows no brain waves and you are clinically dead, you should not be able to visit with deceased relatives who you never knew about and be able to report back about them. Yet, those with NDE's report they did. And thousands of people have NDE's. There is no possible way science today can explain this without accepting the concept of a soul or consciousness after death. And when science is finally able to explain it, every medical textbook will have to be trashed and rewritten to include a chapter on consciousness surviving death.

There's something happening to people who have these experiences and while some sit on their hands waiting for science to figure out an explanation, the believers in the world already know. It's the only plausible explanation - our consciousness does survive death. Too bad science can't explain it but religion did though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bearegards information was confirmed in the Lancet article. Both conclude that science can not explain the phenomena of near death experience, and there must be some other explanation. Thousands of people across various religions and culture report similar experiences after death. They report hearing details of conversations, seeing particular people, etc..They can't all be lying. Current science can not explain it.

I doubt many (if any) of them are lying about what they believe they experienced, however neuroscience has provided some explanations. Even if it were a completely inexplicable mystery, it's a VERY long leap from "something's going on that we can't explain" to Beauregards's "divine Ground of Being."

Lack of an explanation does not automatically mean that a supernatural explanation is the only possible explanation. Science has demonstrated repeatedly that what has been believed to be a supernatural event is actually explicable via natural causes.

When your EEG shows there are no brain waves and you are, by medical definition, dead, then there should be no consciousness. There should be no remembrance of what happened to your body or conversations around you while your brain was not functioning. You should not be able to hear conversations in other rooms down the hall or on other floors either. If your EEG shows no brain waves and you are clinically dead, you should not be able to visit with deceased relatives who you never knew about and be able to report back about them. Yet, those with NDE's report they did. And thousands of people have NDE's. There is no possible way science today can explain this without accepting the concept of a soul or consciousness after death. And when science is finally able to explain it, every medical textbook will have to be trashed and rewritten to include a chapter on consciousness surviving death.

There's something happening to people who have these experiences and while some sit on their hands waiting for science to figure out an explanation, the believers in the world already know. It's the only plausible explanation - our consciousness does survive death. Too bad science can't explain it but religion did though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bearegards information was confirmed in the Lancet article. Both conclude that science can not explain the phenomena of near death experience, and there must be some other explanation. Thousands of people across various religions and culture report similar experiences after death. They report hearing details of conversations, seeing particular people, etc..They can't all be lying. Current science can not explain it.

I doubt many (if any) of them are lying about what they believe they experienced, however neuroscience has provided some explanations. Even if it were a completely inexplicable mystery, it's a VERY long leap from "something's going on that we can't explain" to Beauregards's "divine Ground of Being."

Lack of an explanation does not automatically mean that a supernatural explanation is the only possible explanation. Science has demonstrated repeatedly that what has been believed to be a supernatural event is actually explicable via natural causes.

When your EEG shows there are no brain waves and you are, by medical definition, dead, then there should be no consciousness. There should be no remembrance of what happened to your body or conversations around you while your brain was not functioning. You should not be able to hear conversations in other rooms down the hall or on other floors either. If your EEG shows no brain waves and you are clinically dead, you should not be able to visit with deceased relatives who you never knew about and be able to report back about them. Yet, those with NDE's report they did. And thousands of people have NDE's. There is no possible way science today can explain this without accepting the concept of a soul or consciousness after death. And when science is finally able to explain it, every medical textbook will have to be trashed and rewritten to include a chapter on consciousness surviving death.

There's something happening to people who have these experiences and while some sit on their hands waiting for science to figure out an explanation, the believers in the world already know. It's the only plausible explanation - our consciousness does survive death. Too bad science can't explain it but religion did though.

Kidding, right? I wish someone could confirm that this is a person who is trying to make a believer look dumb.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bearegards information was confirmed in the Lancet article. Both conclude that science can not explain the phenomena of near death experience, and there must be some other explanation. Thousands of people across various religions and culture report similar experiences after death. They report hearing details of conversations, seeing particular people, etc..They can't all be lying. Current science can not explain it.

I doubt many (if any) of them are lying about what they believe they experienced, however neuroscience has provided some explanations. Even if it were a completely inexplicable mystery, it's a VERY long leap from "something's going on that we can't explain" to Beauregards's "divine Ground of Being."

Lack of an explanation does not automatically mean that a supernatural explanation is the only possible explanation. Science has demonstrated repeatedly that what has been believed to be a supernatural event is actually explicable via natural causes.

When your EEG shows there are no brain waves and you are, by medical definition, dead, then there should be no consciousness. There should be no remembrance of what happened to your body or conversations around you while your brain was not functioning. You should not be able to hear conversations in other rooms down the hall or on other floors either. If your EEG shows no brain waves and you are clinically dead, you should not be able to visit with deceased relatives who you never knew about and be able to report back about them. Yet, those with NDE's report they did. And thousands of people have NDE's. There is no possible way science today can explain this without accepting the concept of a soul or consciousness after death. And when science is finally able to explain it, every medical textbook will have to be trashed and rewritten to include a chapter on consciousness surviving death.

There's something happening to people who have these experiences and while some sit on their hands waiting for science to figure out an explanation, the believers in the world already know. It's the only plausible explanation - our consciousness does survive death. Too bad science can't explain it but religion did though.

Kidding, right? I wish someone could confirm that this is a person who is trying to make a believer look dumb.

Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong. Ever hear that?

Anonymous wrote:I think atheists derive comfort from the denial of this concept. There is also a certain arrogance and ignorance with atheists that is needed to maintain this denial, the ignorance in the belief that the undiscovered is assumed be nonexistent and the arrogance that mankind's knowledge is supreme.

Most believers do not think Franklin and Pasteur's discoveries are in conflict with God's laws. We believe
God's laws will always be reflected in science but science has not been able to reveal all of God's laws.

But the bottom line is that Bearegard's assertion has been cited in the Lancet article and that is simply that the evidence seems to show consciousness survives death. There can be no denial of this. It's been experienced and documented by many doctors now. Regardless of whether atheists can use science to understand or explain it, it occurs.

We need to stop going back and forth on the issue of whether a soul exists. Atheists don't believe it exists. You've been heard loud and clear but no believer will deny its existence regardless of how persuasively you think you're constructing your rebuttals.