Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women still can't vote in Saudi Arabia, although they will be able to vote next year.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/saudi-arabia-women-vote/

Please! Woman! Stop buying into the "Saudi Arabia is reforming" PR machine.

Women have the right to run in MUNICIPAL elections that mean absolutely nothing. Appointments to the Shoura Council, mwahahah, I'll have you know this august body is known derisively as the Shourba Council (soup committee). It's an advisory committee whose powers extend to being able to fart as loudly as they desire. They don't make laws. They don't vote for squat. Power in KSA belongs exclusively to the Al-Saud.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women still can't vote in Saudi Arabia, although they will be able to vote next year.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/saudi-arabia-women-vote/

Please! Woman! Stop buying into the "Saudi Arabia is reforming" PR machine.

Women have the right to run in MUNICIPAL elections that mean absolutely nothing. Appointments to the Shoura Council, mwahahah, I'll have you know this august body is known derisively as the Shourba Council (soup committee). It's an advisory committee whose powers extend to being able to fart as loudly as they desire. They don't make laws. They don't vote for squat. Power in KSA belongs exclusively to the Al-Saud.

Haha, no doubt you're right. It just seemed worth pointing out to Muslima that voting rights for women in Saudi Arabia, far from being granted 1400 years ago, still don't exist in 2014.

The leader of an Islamic state is confirmed by the people through a process known as bai’ah; a symbolic contract between the leader and the people wherein the leader promises to obey Islamic law and the people, in exchange, promise their allegiance. Iqbal, Justice Javid, "The Concept of State in Islam" State, Politics, and Islam (ed. Mumtaz Ahmed, American Trust Publications 1986, p. 38).

In early Islam women were included in the giving of the bai’ah. Prophet Muhammad received the bai’ah from the people. The Quran addresses the issue of women giving the bai’ah to Prophet Muhammad and God tells Muhammad to accept the pledge of the women. "O Prophet! Whenever believing women come unto thee to pledge their allegiance to thee...then accept their pledge of allegiance." (Quran 60:12). In 645 A.D. (23 A.H.) Umar, the second head of state after the death of Prophet Muhammad, convened a group to determine his successor. One of the group, Abdul Rahman, went to the people to consult with them as to who should be the next leader. Abdul Rahman consulted both women and men, thus women had a say in who would be their leader. Through this process Uthman was selected to succeed Umar. Iqbal, Justice Javid, "The Concept of State in Islam" State, Politics, and Islam (ed. Mumtaz Ahmed, American Trust Publications 1986, p. 43).

Women and Shura

In addition to participation in the electoral process, women have also been involved in political activities. These activities appear to be sanctioned by Islamic law. In Islam, community decisions must be made through a process of consultation (shura). The Quran, in describing the qualifications of true believers, states "...and whose rule in all matters of common concern is consultation among themselves." (Quran 42:38). Muhammad Asad argues that this verse reaches into all aspects of political life and that to fulfill the requirements of this verse, a legislative assembly should be formed. Muhammad Asad, The Principles of State and Government in Islam, Dar Al-Andalus, 1980, pp. 44-45. He further argues that the verse refers to the entire community; therefore, the legislative assembly must be representative of the entire community, women and men and that to achieve true representation, the members of the legislative assembly must be elected through free elections with wide suffrage, including both women and men. Muhammad Asad, The Principles of State and Government in Islam, Dar Al-Andalus, 1980, pp. 45.

The Quran, sunnah, and Islamic history provide ample evidence of women undertaking various forms of political involvement from the bai’ah to fighting in battles to influencing political decisions.

Anonymous wrote:Wikipedia has a timeline of women's suffrage in Muslim countries.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_first_women's_suffrage_in_majority-Muslim_countries

Oops, nothing before 1900. Some as late as the 2000s.

Who said something about lying?

The leader of an Islamic state is confirmed by the people through a process known as bai’ah; a symbolic contract between the leader and the people wherein the leader promises to obey Islamic law and the people, in exchange, promise their allegiance. Iqbal, Justice Javid, "The Concept of State in Islam" State, Politics, and Islam (ed. Mumtaz Ahmed, American Trust Publications 1986, p. 38).

In early Islam women were included in the giving of the bai’ah. Prophet Muhammad received the bai’ah from the people. The Quran addresses the issue of women giving the bai’ah to Prophet Muhammad and God tells Muhammad to accept the pledge of the women. "O Prophet! Whenever believing women come unto thee to pledge their allegiance to thee...then accept their pledge of allegiance." (Quran 60:12). In 645 A.D. (23 A.H.) Umar, the second head of state after the death of Prophet Muhammad, convened a group to determine his successor. One of the group, Abdul Rahman, went to the people to consult with them as to who should be the next leader. Abdul Rahman consulted both women and men, thus women had a say in who would be their leader. Through this process Uthman was selected to succeed Umar. Iqbal, Justice Javid, "The Concept of State in Islam" State, Politics, and Islam (ed. Mumtaz Ahmed, American Trust Publications 1986, p. 43).

Women and Shura

In addition to participation in the electoral process, women have also been involved in political activities. These activities appear to be sanctioned by Islamic law. In Islam, community decisions must be made through a process of consultation (shura). The Quran, in describing the qualifications of true believers, states "...and whose rule in all matters of common concern is consultation among themselves." (Quran 42:38). Muhammad Asad argues that this verse reaches into all aspects of political life and that to fulfill the requirements of this verse, a legislative assembly should be formed. Muhammad Asad, The Principles of State and Government in Islam, Dar Al-Andalus, 1980, pp. 44-45. He further argues that the verse refers to the entire community; therefore, the legislative assembly must be representative of the entire community, women and men and that to achieve true representation, the members of the legislative assembly must be elected through free elections with wide suffrage, including both women and men. Muhammad Asad, The Principles of State and Government in Islam, Dar Al-Andalus, 1980, pp. 45.

The Quran, sunnah, and Islamic history provide ample evidence of women undertaking various forms of political involvement from the bai’ah to fighting in battles to influencing political decisions.

Anonymous wrote:Women still can't vote in Saudi Arabia, although they will be able to vote next year.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/saudi-arabia-women-vote/

Muslima wrote:Saudi Arabia?? That's the best you can come up with? For your information, I do not think Saudi Arabia is a "Muslim" Country. It is a "muslim-majority" country. The women's rights issues in Saudi Arabia are issues of a nation (of man), not of a religion. Islam commands men to women with the utmost respect, whether or not the laws are followed has nothing to do with the religion itself. Of course, under dictatorship rulings , in most of the Muslim majority countries neither men nor women had the right to vote for a long time. I repeat, Islam gave women the right to vote over 1400 years ago, it is a fact! You are doing a wonderful job confusing ISLAM with MUSLIMS. You think 1400 years ago, people lined up with ballots to cast their votes? How do you think they used to do it back in the day??? Since I don't want us to go on and about for 20 pages about Muslim Women voting rights which of course makes you pause since in your world such oppressed creatures could really not have this right 1400 years ago when in the US we only got that right like in 1920, I will go against my best judgment and try to "enlighten" you because clearly, i want to move on.....

The leader of an Islamic state is confirmed by the people through a process known as bai’ah; a symbolic contract between the leader and the people wherein the leader promises to obey Islamic law and the people, in exchange, promise their allegiance. Iqbal, Justice Javid, "The Concept of State in Islam" State, Politics, and Islam (ed. Mumtaz Ahmed, American Trust Publications 1986, p. 38).

In early Islam women were included in the giving of the bai’ah. Prophet Muhammad received the bai’ah from the people. The Quran addresses the issue of women giving the bai’ah to Prophet Muhammad and God tells Muhammad to accept the pledge of the women. "O Prophet! Whenever believing women come unto thee to pledge their allegiance to thee...then accept their pledge of allegiance." (Quran 60:12). In 645 A.D. (23 A.H.) Umar, the second head of state after the death of Prophet Muhammad, convened a group to determine his successor. One of the group, Abdul Rahman, went to the people to consult with them as to who should be the next leader. Abdul Rahman consulted both women and men, thus women had a say in who would be their leader. Through this process Uthman was selected to succeed Umar. Iqbal, Justice Javid, "The Concept of State in Islam" State, Politics, and Islam (ed. Mumtaz Ahmed, American Trust Publications 1986, p. 43).

Women and Shura

In addition to participation in the electoral process, women have also been involved in political activities. These activities appear to be sanctioned by Islamic law. In Islam, community decisions must be made through a process of consultation (shura). The Quran, in describing the qualifications of true believers, states "...and whose rule in all matters of common concern is consultation among themselves." (Quran 42:38). Muhammad Asad argues that this verse reaches into all aspects of political life and that to fulfill the requirements of this verse, a legislative assembly should be formed. Muhammad Asad, The Principles of State and Government in Islam, Dar Al-Andalus, 1980, pp. 44-45. He further argues that the verse refers to the entire community; therefore, the legislative assembly must be representative of the entire community, women and men and that to achieve true representation, the members of the legislative assembly must be elected through free elections with wide suffrage, including both women and men. Muhammad Asad, The Principles of State and Government in Islam, Dar Al-Andalus, 1980, pp. 45.

The Quran, sunnah, and Islamic history provide ample evidence of women undertaking various forms of political involvement from the bai’ah to fighting in battles to influencing political decisions.

Source: http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/rights/polirights.html

On that note, good night!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women still can't vote in Saudi Arabia, although they will be able to vote next year.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/saudi-arabia-women-vote/

Your nasty little Muslim here. Tell me you are not that ignorant to believe SA is reflective of Islam throughout the world or reflective of the way Islam was in its purest form 1400 yrs ago. Ever heard of the wahabi belief system? They have a much harsher, literalist interpretation. Thats why its not accurate to look at SA.

Anonymous wrote:I repeat, Islam gave women the right to vote over 1400 years ago, it is a fact! You are doing a wonderful job confusing ISLAM with MUSLIMS.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:Saudi Arabia?? That's the best you can come up with? For your information, I do not think Saudi Arabia is a "Muslim" Country. It is a "muslim-majority" country. The women's rights issues in Saudi Arabia are issues of a nation (of man), not of a religion. Islam commands men to women with the utmost respect, whether or not the laws are followed has nothing to do with the religion itself. Of course, under dictatorship rulings , in most of the Muslim majority countries neither men nor women had the right to vote for a long time. I repeat, Islam gave women the right to vote over 1400 years ago, it is a fact! You are doing a wonderful job confusing ISLAM with MUSLIMS. You think 1400 years ago, people lined up with ballots to cast their votes? How do you think they used to do it back in the day??? Since I don't want us to go on and about for 20 pages about Muslim Women voting rights which of course makes you pause since in your world such oppressed creatures could really not have this right 1400 years ago when in the US we only got that right like in 1920, I will go against my best judgment and try to "enlighten" you because clearly, i want to move on.....

The leader of an Islamic state is confirmed by the people through a process known as bai’ah; a symbolic contract between the leader and the people wherein the leader promises to obey Islamic law and the people, in exchange, promise their allegiance. Iqbal, Justice Javid, "The Concept of State in Islam" State, Politics, and Islam (ed. Mumtaz Ahmed, American Trust Publications 1986, p. 38).

In early Islam women were included in the giving of the bai’ah. Prophet Muhammad received the bai’ah from the people. The Quran addresses the issue of women giving the bai’ah to Prophet Muhammad and God tells Muhammad to accept the pledge of the women. "O Prophet! Whenever believing women come unto thee to pledge their allegiance to thee...then accept their pledge of allegiance." (Quran 60:12). In 645 A.D. (23 A.H.) Umar, the second head of state after the death of Prophet Muhammad, convened a group to determine his successor. One of the group, Abdul Rahman, went to the people to consult with them as to who should be the next leader. Abdul Rahman consulted both women and men, thus women had a say in who would be their leader. Through this process Uthman was selected to succeed Umar. Iqbal, Justice Javid, "The Concept of State in Islam" State, Politics, and Islam (ed. Mumtaz Ahmed, American Trust Publications 1986, p. 43).

Women and Shura

In addition to participation in the electoral process, women have also been involved in political activities. These activities appear to be sanctioned by Islamic law. In Islam, community decisions must be made through a process of consultation (shura). The Quran, in describing the qualifications of true believers, states "...and whose rule in all matters of common concern is consultation among themselves." (Quran 42:38). Muhammad Asad argues that this verse reaches into all aspects of political life and that to fulfill the requirements of this verse, a legislative assembly should be formed. Muhammad Asad, The Principles of State and Government in Islam, Dar Al-Andalus, 1980, pp. 44-45. He further argues that the verse refers to the entire community; therefore, the legislative assembly must be representative of the entire community, women and men and that to achieve true representation, the members of the legislative assembly must be elected through free elections with wide suffrage, including both women and men. Muhammad Asad, The Principles of State and Government in Islam, Dar Al-Andalus, 1980, pp. 45.

The Quran, sunnah, and Islamic history provide ample evidence of women undertaking various forms of political involvement from the bai’ah to fighting in battles to influencing political decisions.

Source: http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/rights/polirights.html

On that note, good night!

All you brought was what you think Islam should be like. You didn't bring any evidence of what actually happened.

BTW, there is more than one view of how Mr. Uthman came to power. What you brought is just one of them.

Muhammad Asad is a nice guy but at the core he's just another white dude who thought he could tell Muslims how to practice Islam properly. Distinguished life but tossed out by every Muslim country he happened to serve, finished his days in New York.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:Saudi Arabia?? That's the best you can come up with? For your information, I do not think Saudi Arabia is a "Muslim" Country. It is a "muslim-majority" country. The women's rights issues in Saudi Arabia are issues of a nation (of man), not of a religion. Islam commands men to women with the utmost respect, whether or not the laws are followed has nothing to do with the religion itself. Of course, under dictatorship rulings , in most of the Muslim majority countries neither men nor women had the right to vote for a long time. I repeat, Islam gave women the right to vote over 1400 years ago, it is a fact! You are doing a wonderful job confusing ISLAM with MUSLIMS. You think 1400 years ago, people lined up with ballots to cast their votes? How do you think they used to do it back in the day??? Since I don't want us to go on and about for 20 pages about Muslim Women voting rights which of course makes you pause since in your world such oppressed creatures could really not have this right 1400 years ago when in the US we only got that right like in 1920, I will go against my best judgment and try to "enlighten" you because clearly, i want to move on.....

The leader of an Islamic state is confirmed by the people through a process known as bai’ah; a symbolic contract between the leader and the people wherein the leader promises to obey Islamic law and the people, in exchange, promise their allegiance. Iqbal, Justice Javid, "The Concept of State in Islam" State, Politics, and Islam (ed. Mumtaz Ahmed, American Trust Publications 1986, p. 38).

In early Islam women were included in the giving of the bai’ah. Prophet Muhammad received the bai’ah from the people. The Quran addresses the issue of women giving the bai’ah to Prophet Muhammad and God tells Muhammad to accept the pledge of the women. "O Prophet! Whenever believing women come unto thee to pledge their allegiance to thee...then accept their pledge of allegiance." (Quran 60:12). In 645 A.D. (23 A.H.) Umar, the second head of state after the death of Prophet Muhammad, convened a group to determine his successor. One of the group, Abdul Rahman, went to the people to consult with them as to who should be the next leader. Abdul Rahman consulted both women and men, thus women had a say in who would be their leader. Through this process Uthman was selected to succeed Umar. Iqbal, Justice Javid, "The Concept of State in Islam" State, Politics, and Islam (ed. Mumtaz Ahmed, American Trust Publications 1986, p. 43).

Women and Shura

In addition to participation in the electoral process, women have also been involved in political activities. These activities appear to be sanctioned by Islamic law. In Islam, community decisions must be made through a process of consultation (shura). The Quran, in describing the qualifications of true believers, states "...and whose rule in all matters of common concern is consultation among themselves." (Quran 42:38). Muhammad Asad argues that this verse reaches into all aspects of political life and that to fulfill the requirements of this verse, a legislative assembly should be formed. Muhammad Asad, The Principles of State and Government in Islam, Dar Al-Andalus, 1980, pp. 44-45. He further argues that the verse refers to the entire community; therefore, the legislative assembly must be representative of the entire community, women and men and that to achieve true representation, the members of the legislative assembly must be elected through free elections with wide suffrage, including both women and men. Muhammad Asad, The Principles of State and Government in Islam, Dar Al-Andalus, 1980, pp. 45.

The Quran, sunnah, and Islamic history provide ample evidence of women undertaking various forms of political involvement from the bai’ah to fighting in battles to influencing political decisions.

Source: http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/rights/polirights.html

On that note, good night!

All you brought was what you think Islam should be like. You didn't bring any evidence of what actually happened.

BTW, there is more than one view of how Mr. Uthman came to power. What you brought is just one of them.

Muhammad Asad is a nice guy but at the core he's just another white dude who thought he could tell Muslims how to practice Islam properly. Distinguished life but tossed out by every Muslim country he happened to serve, finished his days in New York.

yehhhhhh, you asked for a source, woman/man whatever you are. Once you get the source , your argument is "you brought what you think Islam should be like" ahhahahaha WELL, the problem is I didn't write this piece, and I did not write the Quran. Really, this is Islam, sorry to burst your bubble! nOW YOU also want evidence, because what i brought wasn't 'evidence" enough ahha, this is why I refused to "educate" you in the first place. See , I don't argue just for the sake of arguments, I have no interest in sterile discussions. I have shown you clear sources that show how muslim women voted 1400 years ago, sorry I couldn't resuscitate the dead bodies of all of those muslim women as evidence so they could bear witness about how they casted ballots way back when #MuslimApologies

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women still can't vote in Saudi Arabia, although they will be able to vote next year.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/saudi-arabia-women-vote/

Your nasty little Muslim here. Tell me you are not that ignorant to believe SA is reflective of Islam throughout the world or reflective of the way Islam was in its purest form 1400 yrs ago. Ever heard of the wahabi belief system? They have a much harsher, literalist interpretation. Thats why its not accurate to look at SA.

Why is their interpretation wrong and yours right? Are they looking at a different Quran? Are they lacking in Islamic knowledge?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I repeat, Islam gave women the right to vote over 1400 years ago, it is a fact! You are doing a wonderful job confusing ISLAM with MUSLIMS.

Oh my little scholar. You are endearing in your righteousness. How wonderful Islam could have been! If only Muslims would stop interfering! What a fabulous system! Too bad it didn't work anywhere. These damn people.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:Saudi Arabia?? That's the best you can come up with? For your information, I do not think Saudi Arabia is a "Muslim" Country. It is a "muslim-majority" country. The women's rights issues in Saudi Arabia are issues of a nation (of man), not of a religion. Islam commands men to women with the utmost respect, whether or not the laws are followed has nothing to do with the religion itself. Of course, under dictatorship rulings , in most of the Muslim majority countries neither men nor women had the right to vote for a long time. I repeat, Islam gave women the right to vote over 1400 years ago, it is a fact! You are doing a wonderful job confusing ISLAM with MUSLIMS. You think 1400 years ago, people lined up with ballots to cast their votes? How do you think they used to do it back in the day??? Since I don't want us to go on and about for 20 pages about Muslim Women voting rights which of course makes you pause since in your world such oppressed creatures could really not have this right 1400 years ago when in the US we only got that right like in 1920, I will go against my best judgment and try to "enlighten" you because clearly, i want to move on.....

The leader of an Islamic state is confirmed by the people through a process known as bai’ah; a symbolic contract between the leader and the people wherein the leader promises to obey Islamic law and the people, in exchange, promise their allegiance. Iqbal, Justice Javid, "The Concept of State in Islam" State, Politics, and Islam (ed. Mumtaz Ahmed, American Trust Publications 1986, p. 38).

In early Islam women were included in the giving of the bai’ah. Prophet Muhammad received the bai’ah from the people. The Quran addresses the issue of women giving the bai’ah to Prophet Muhammad and God tells Muhammad to accept the pledge of the women. "O Prophet! Whenever believing women come unto thee to pledge their allegiance to thee...then accept their pledge of allegiance." (Quran 60:12). In 645 A.D. (23 A.H.) Umar, the second head of state after the death of Prophet Muhammad, convened a group to determine his successor. One of the group, Abdul Rahman, went to the people to consult with them as to who should be the next leader. Abdul Rahman consulted both women and men, thus women had a say in who would be their leader. Through this process Uthman was selected to succeed Umar. Iqbal, Justice Javid, "The Concept of State in Islam" State, Politics, and Islam (ed. Mumtaz Ahmed, American Trust Publications 1986, p. 43).

Women and Shura

In addition to participation in the electoral process, women have also been involved in political activities. These activities appear to be sanctioned by Islamic law. In Islam, community decisions must be made through a process of consultation (shura). The Quran, in describing the qualifications of true believers, states "...and whose rule in all matters of common concern is consultation among themselves." (Quran 42:38). Muhammad Asad argues that this verse reaches into all aspects of political life and that to fulfill the requirements of this verse, a legislative assembly should be formed. Muhammad Asad, The Principles of State and Government in Islam, Dar Al-Andalus, 1980, pp. 44-45. He further argues that the verse refers to the entire community; therefore, the legislative assembly must be representative of the entire community, women and men and that to achieve true representation, the members of the legislative assembly must be elected through free elections with wide suffrage, including both women and men. Muhammad Asad, The Principles of State and Government in Islam, Dar Al-Andalus, 1980, pp. 45.

The Quran, sunnah, and Islamic history provide ample evidence of women undertaking various forms of political involvement from the bai’ah to fighting in battles to influencing political decisions.

Source: http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/rights/polirights.html

On that note, good night!

All you brought was what you think Islam should be like. You didn't bring any evidence of what actually happened.

BTW, there is more than one view of how Mr. Uthman came to power. What you brought is just one of them.

Muhammad Asad is a nice guy but at the core he's just another white dude who thought he could tell Muslims how to practice Islam properly. Distinguished life but tossed out by every Muslim country he happened to serve, finished his days in New York.

yehhhhhh, you asked for a source, woman/man whatever you are. Once you get the source , your argument is "you brought what you think Islam should be like" ahhahahaha WELL, the problem is I didn't write this piece, and I did not write the Quran. Really, this is Islam, sorry to burst your bubble! nOW YOU also want evidence, because what i brought wasn't 'evidence" enough ahha, this is why I refused to "educate" you in the first place. See , I don't argue just for the sake of arguments, I have no interest in sterile discussions. I have shown you clear sources that show how muslim women voted 1400 years ago, sorry I couldn't resuscitate the dead bodies of all of those muslim women as evidence so they could bear witness about how they casted ballots way back when #MuslimApologies

Different PP here. Casting ballots, as you call it, is actually very different from pledging fealty to someone who already has power. You are nuts.