Informal poll: is it an automatic reaction amongst most Jews

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[Post New]07/26/2014 13:28
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Muslima
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am Jewish and pro-Israel. I fully support a two-state solution, but feel as though Hamas doesn't support this as they do not acknowledge Israel's right to exist. That being sad, even though I am pro-Israel, any news of a civilian death (especially a child) is heartbreaking. No Jewish person I know rejoices to hear an innocent Palestinian is killed and I can't imagine how terrible life is in Gaza right now. I just don't know what better options Israel has.

Very simple, stop the illegal occupation and give people back their land. It is not rocket science....


Since it's very simple, what land are you suggesting should be given back?


The entire land that wasn't theirs to begin with. There is only one solution : A one state solution. I will repeat what I said yesterday. Palestine/Israel is as unpartitionable as was South Africa and Northern Ireland, where similar ethnic conflicts had also defied resolution for generations. In both places, it was only when the dominant group dropped its insistence on supremacy that a political settlement could be reached. What was once unimaginable happened: Nelson Mandela's African National Congress and F.W. de Klerk's National Party joined hands in a national unity government in 1994. Leaders in Northern Ireland made similar progress .
[Post New]07/26/2014 13:35
quote
Anonymous
Muslima wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am Jewish and pro-Israel. I fully support a two-state solution, but feel as though Hamas doesn't support this as they do not acknowledge Israel's right to exist. That being sad, even though I am pro-Israel, any news of a civilian death (especially a child) is heartbreaking. No Jewish person I know rejoices to hear an innocent Palestinian is killed and I can't imagine how terrible life is in Gaza right now. I just don't know what better options Israel has.

Very simple, stop the illegal occupation and give people back their land. It is not rocket science....


Since it's very simple, what land are you suggesting should be given back?


The entire land that wasn't theirs to begin with. There is only one solution : A one state solution. I will repeat what I said yesterday. Palestine/Israel is as unpartitionable as was South Africa and Northern Ireland, where similar ethnic conflicts had also defied resolution for generations. In both places, it was only when the dominant group dropped its insistence on supremacy that a political settlement could be reached. What was once unimaginable happened: Nelson Mandela's African National Congress and F.W. de Klerk's National Party joined hands in a national unity government in 1994. Leaders in Northern Ireland made similar progress .


And what do you see happening to the Israelis, their families and their homes? Wholesale evictions based on where someone claims their grandfather lived 60 years ago?
[Post New]07/26/2014 13:45
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Muslima
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Anonymous wrote:
Muslima wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am Jewish and pro-Israel. I fully support a two-state solution, but feel as though Hamas doesn't support this as they do not acknowledge Israel's right to exist. That being sad, even though I am pro-Israel, any news of a civilian death (especially a child) is heartbreaking. No Jewish person I know rejoices to hear an innocent Palestinian is killed and I can't imagine how terrible life is in Gaza right now. I just don't know what better options Israel has.

Very simple, stop the illegal occupation and give people back their land. It is not rocket science....


Since it's very simple, what land are you suggesting should be given back?


The entire land that wasn't theirs to begin with. There is only one solution : A one state solution. I will repeat what I said yesterday. Palestine/Israel is as unpartitionable as was South Africa and Northern Ireland, where similar ethnic conflicts had also defied resolution for generations. In both places, it was only when the dominant group dropped its insistence on supremacy that a political settlement could be reached. What was once unimaginable happened: Nelson Mandela's African National Congress and F.W. de Klerk's National Party joined hands in a national unity government in 1994. Leaders in Northern Ireland made similar progress .


And what do you see happening to the Israelis, their families and their homes? Wholesale evictions based on where someone claims their grandfather lived 60 years ago?

Do you think that's what happened in South Africa? Were White people evicted at the end of the Apartheid? We must begin to construct a vision of a nonracial, nonsectarian Palestine-Israel, which belongs to all the people who live in it, Israeli Jews, Palestinians, and all exiles who want to return and live in peace with their neighbors. Do you think Nelson Mandela would have been what he is today and South Africa what it is today, if they decided on a 2 state solutions asking all the Blacks to stay in SOWETO and giving the Whites the Best Part of the country? How many times in History do we have to go through this for people to understand that you can't come into someone's country, occupy it, terrorize them, push them into the most impoverished part and expect that they will just sit there peacefully and live happily ever after
[Post New]07/26/2014 14:08
quote
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am Jewish and pro-Israel. I fully support a two-state solution, but feel as though Hamas doesn't support this as they do not acknowledge Israel's right to exist. That being sad, even though I am pro-Israel, any news of a civilian death (especially a child) is heartbreaking. No Jewish person I know rejoices to hear an innocent Palestinian is killed and I can't imagine how terrible life is in Gaza right now. I just don't know what better options Israel has.


If they don't like killing civilians, maybe stop targeting civilian interests under the excuse of "Hamas hides weapons there, so Hamas is forcing us to kill civilians" without any definitive proof of it.



You don't know anything about Gaza strip and the tunnels, do you?


But Israel fancies itself a developed country and considers Palestinaneans a bunch of savages so shouldn't it devise a better way to deal with Hamas than hitting schools and hospitals - ie what savages would do?? Why not go on house to house raids to grab the key Hamas leaders the way the Taliban is handled often times?
[Post New]07/26/2014 14:35
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Anonymous
Myself and basically every Jewish person I know in this area are 100% completely fine with giving up Gaza and the West Bank. Every Jewish person I know in this area is anti-settlements. Israel has always been willing to trade land for peace. Yes, there are some right wing crazy Jews who don't want to give up any land, but they are a minority and disagree with them as do the majority of Israelis and American Jews. Israel isn't going away, so 2 state solution is the only hope at peace.
[Post New]07/26/2014 16:36
quote
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I am Jewish and pro-Israel. I fully support a two-state solution, but feel as though Hamas doesn't support this as they do not acknowledge Israel's right to exist. That being sad, even though I am pro-Israel, any news of a civilian death (especially a child) is heartbreaking. No Jewish person I know rejoices to hear an innocent Palestinian is killed and I can't imagine how terrible life is in Gaza right now. I just don't know what better options Israel has.


SERIOUSLY? GIVE BACK THE LAND TO PALESTINE. IT WAS NOT ISRAEL'S TO TAKE FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Post New]07/26/2014 16:38
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Anonymous
A one state solution will NEVER work. A two state is the only viable option but admittedly it is a monstrous undertaking which will required tremendous overseeing by the international community.

Why a one state will not work? Because in no time it would be predominately Arab who would have zero tolerance for an Israeli neighbor and certainly they would not hold office not receiving the popular vote. It has ZERO chance of happening.
[Post New]07/26/2014 17:26
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Muslima
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Anonymous wrote:A one state solution will NEVER work. A two state is the only viable option but admittedly it is a monstrous undertaking which will required tremendous overseeing by the international community.

Why a one state will not work? Because in no time it would be predominately Arab who would have zero tolerance for an Israeli neighbor and certainly they would not hold office not receiving the popular vote. It has ZERO chance of happening.

I don't agree. South Africa is 8% White,and 80% Black. I am pretty sure Blacks did not chase the 8% out of the country after the end of Apartheid. With the 2 sate solution, you would be creating separate, ethnically homogenous states for the colonizing society, on the one hand, and for the victims of the colonization, on the other ,along the lines of apartheid South Africa's Bantustan system, history has shown that this has failed. And Palestinians will never accept this...By isolating and alienating they see each other as enemies. A one state solution could help them revise their views.One person...one vote Israel has made it impossible for two states. Anyone who has gone to the occupied territories already knows that. Right now, Israel is an Apartheid state where occupied Palestinians have no say in the people controlling their destiny. The only way this horrid occupation is going to be stopped is for all people n Palestine/Israel to join together in one state for everyone. Also note that when David Ben-Gurion declared Israel’s independence in 1948, the Jews were not a majority west of the Jordan River. Demographics in this region change rapidly and often, especially with the ingathering of the Jews still in full swing.

It's been done in Germany. It's been done in South Africa. There is no reason why the Jews, Christians and Muslims can't learn how to share the sandbox
[Post New]07/26/2014 17:36
quote
Anonymous
Oh Jeff....you are clueless. To compare South Africa to Palestine/Israel is completely pedestrian. Race is one thing. God promising you the same land is completely different.
[Post New]07/26/2014 18:09
quote
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:A one state solution will NEVER work. A two state is the only viable option but admittedly it is a monstrous undertaking which will required tremendous overseeing by the international community.

Why a one state will not work? Because in no time it would be predominately Arab who would have zero tolerance for an Israeli neighbor and certainly they would not hold office not receiving the popular vote. It has ZERO chance of happening.


Yes, it will happen.
[Post New]07/26/2014 18:11
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jsteele
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Anonymous wrote:Oh Jeff....you are clueless. To compare South Africa to Palestine/Israel is completely pedestrian. Race is one thing. God promising you the same land is completely different.


I think the term "clueless" better applies to a poster who starts off her message "Oh Jeff" when I haven't even posted in this thread.
[Post New]07/26/2014 18:14
quote
Anonymous
OP you are muslim. Get some muslim friends and leave those jewish friends alone. There is a chance they would not be your friends if they knew you were muslim. They probably do know you are, but as part of their game are teasing you with their opinions
[Post New]07/26/2014 18:19
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Muslima
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Anonymous wrote:OP you are muslim. Get some muslim friends and leave those jewish friends alone. There is a chance they would not be your friends if they knew you were muslim. They probably do know you are, but as part of their game are teasing you with their opinions


Why are you saying this? Do you think Muslims & Jews can't be friends?
[Post New]07/26/2014 18:34
quote
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:OP you are muslim. Get some muslim friends and leave those jewish friends alone. There is a chance they would not be your friends if they knew you were muslim. They probably do know you are, but as part of their game are teasing you with their opinions


OP here -- I do have Muslim friends. The Jewish friends are people who started off as coworkers and became friends -- hence we don't have a shared history, religion etc; in 2014 in America, I don't think I can just isolate myself and only hang out with Muslims -- I don't have the kind of lifestyle centered around religion alone, nor do these Jewish friends -- which is why I'm a little surprised by the strength of their "Israel is always right no matter what" and the "poor us the world hates Jews and we're oppressed" views. I'm not sure if they're teasing me with their opinions -- likely they just don't care what anyone thinks let alone a Muslim. Kind of disappointing.
[Post New]07/26/2014 18:49
quote
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Muslima wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am Jewish and pro-Israel. I fully support a two-state solution, but feel as though Hamas doesn't support this as they do not acknowledge Israel's right to exist. That being sad, even though I am pro-Israel, any news of a civilian death (especially a child) is heartbreaking. No Jewish person I know rejoices to hear an innocent Palestinian is killed and I can't imagine how terrible life is in Gaza right now. I just don't know what better options Israel has.

Very simple, stop the illegal occupation and give people back their land. It is not rocket science....


Since it's very simple, what land are you suggesting should be given back?


The entire land that wasn't theirs to begin with. There is only one solution : A one state solution. I will repeat what I said yesterday. Palestine/Israel is as unpartitionable as was South Africa and Northern Ireland, where similar ethnic conflicts had also defied resolution for generations. In both places, it was only when the dominant group dropped its insistence on supremacy that a political settlement could be reached. What was once unimaginable happened: Nelson Mandela's African National Congress and F.W. de Klerk's National Party joined hands in a national unity government in 1994. Leaders in Northern Ireland made similar progress .


And what do you see happening to the Israelis, their families and their homes? Wholesale evictions based on where someone claims their grandfather lived 60 years ago?

Are you that concerned about Palestinian families that got expelled to make room for Jews in 1948? They got expelled forcibly and then Israel passed the law that said that land is abandoned and now legally belonged to Israel. That's confiscation, pure and simple. And by the way, it only applies to Arabs, not Jews. If a Jewish person shows legal claim to the land pre-1948, they get restitution. If they are Arab, they get bubkes. Is this fair? A Jewish person can present a legal claim showing their grandfather lived there 60 years ago, and guess what, an Arab who lives there now can be expelled. Is this fair?

I don't know if you can restore the land to its original owners. But I do know that redemption - just like with Holocaust - begins by saying "we were wrong. We committed a terrible crime and violation by expelling you and stealing your land. We were wrong. This was a crime. And we'll figure out a way to make it up to you."

Yes, Jews suffered terribly in the Holocaust. But you know what? The satisfaction they got was a global acknowledgment that the way they were treated was wrong and criminal, and it must not happened again. Palestinians never got that. Yet.
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