Informal poll: is it an automatic reaction amongst most Jews

[Anonymous]

This is from Mr. Wikipedia:

The 1948 Palestinian exodus from Lydda and Ramle was the expulsion of 50,000–70,000 Palestinian Arabs when Israeli troops captured the towns in July that year. The military action occurred within the context of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The two Arab towns, lying outside the area designated for a Jewish state in the UN Partition Plan of 1947, and inside the area set aside for an Arab state in Palestine,[1][2] subsequently were transformed into predominantly Jewish areas in the new State of Israel, known as Lod and Ramla.[3]

The ethnic cleansing,[4] constituting 'the biggest expulsion of the war',[5] took place at the end of a truce period, when fighting resumed, prompting Israel to try to improve its control over the Jerusalem road and its coastal route which were under pressure from the Jordanian Arab Legion, Egyptian and Palestinian forces. From the Israeli perspective, the conquest of the towns averted an Arab threat to Tel Aviv, thwarted an Arab Legion advance by clogging the roads with refugees, forcing the Arab Legion to assume a logical burden that would undermine its military capacities, and helped demoralize nearby Arab cities.[6][7] On 10 July, Glubb Pasha ordered the defending Arab Legion troops to "make arrangements...for a phony war".[8] The next day, Ramle surrendered immediately, but the conquest of Lydda took longer and led to an unknown number of deaths; Israeli historian Benny Morris suggests up to 450 Palestinians and 9–10 Israeli soldiers died.[9] Once the Israelis were in control of the towns, an expulsion order signed by Yitzhak Rabin was issued to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) stating, "1. The inhabitants of Lydda must be expelled quickly without attention to age.…",[10] Ramle's residents were bussed out, while the people of Lydda were forced to walk miles during a summer heat wave to the Arab front lines, where the Arab Legion, Transjordan's British-led army, tried to provide shelter and supplies.[11] Quite a few of the refugees died from exhaustion and dehydration. Estimates ranged from a handful to a figure of 350 based on hearsay, which is why the events are also referred as the Lydda death march.[12]

The events in Lydda and Ramle accounted for one-tenth of the overall Arab exodus from Palestine, known in the Arab world as al-Nakba ("the catastrophe"). Many Jews who came to Israel between 1948 and 1951 settled in the refugees' empty homes, both because of a housing shortage and as a matter of policy to prevent former residents from reclaiming them. One of the key issues of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is whether the refugees and their descendants ought to have either compensation for their loses or the right of return, a concession many Israelis object to as a threat to the nation's Jewish identity.[13]

[Anonymous]

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Jewish and pro-Israel. I fully support a two-state solution, but feel as though Hamas doesn't support this as they do not acknowledge Israel's right to exist. That being sad, even though I am pro-Israel, any news of a civilian death (especially a child) is heartbreaking. No Jewish person I know rejoices to hear an innocent Palestinian is killed and I can't imagine how terrible life is in Gaza right now. I just don't know what better options Israel has.

Very simple, stop the illegal occupation and give people back their land. It is not rocket science....

Since it's very simple, what land are you suggesting should be given back?

The entire land that wasn't theirs to begin with. There is only one solution : A one state solution. I will repeat what I said yesterday. Palestine/Israel is as unpartitionable as was South Africa and Northern Ireland, where similar ethnic conflicts had also defied resolution for generations. In both places, it was only when the dominant group dropped its insistence on supremacy that a political settlement could be reached. What was once unimaginable happened: Nelson Mandela's African National Congress and F.W. de Klerk's National Party joined hands in a national unity government in 1994. Leaders in Northern Ireland made similar progress .

And what do you see happening to the Israelis, their families and their homes? Wholesale evictions based on where someone claims their grandfather lived 60 years ago?

Do you think that's what happened in South Africa? Were White people evicted at the end of the Apartheid? We must begin to construct a vision of a nonracial, nonsectarian Palestine-Israel, which belongs to all the people who live in it, Israeli Jews, Palestinians, and all exiles who want to return and live in peace with their neighbors. Do you think Nelson Mandela would have been what he is today and South Africa what it is today, if they decided on a 2 state solutions asking all the Blacks to stay in SOWETO and giving the Whites the Best Part of the country? How many times in History do we have to go through this for people to understand that you can't come into someone's country, occupy it, terrorize them, push them into the most impoverished part and expect that they will just sit there peacefully and live happily ever after

You are looking for utopia. It does not exist in South Africa nor will it happen in Israel. Since time immemorial, there has never been peace on this earth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Jewish and pro-Israel. I fully support a two-state solution, but feel as though Hamas doesn't support this as they do not acknowledge Israel's right to exist. That being sad, even though I am pro-Israel, any news of a civilian death (especially a child) is heartbreaking. No Jewish person I know rejoices to hear an innocent Palestinian is killed and I can't imagine how terrible life is in Gaza right now. I just don't know what better options Israel has.

Very simple, stop the illegal occupation and give people back their land. It is not rocket science....

Since it's very simple, what land are you suggesting should be given back?

Not the PP, but can't they do like Berlin and put up a wall? So simple, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Jewish and pro-Israel. I fully support a two-state solution, but feel as though Hamas doesn't support this as they do not acknowledge Israel's right to exist. That being sad, even though I am pro-Israel, any news of a civilian death (especially a child) is heartbreaking. No Jewish person I know rejoices to hear an innocent Palestinian is killed and I can't imagine how terrible life is in Gaza right now. I just don't know what better options Israel has.

Very simple, stop the illegal occupation and give people back their land. It is not rocket science....

Since it's very simple, what land are you suggesting should be given back?

Not the PP, but can't they do like Berlin and put up a wall? So simple, no?

They have. But since they have settlements scattered all around the West Bank, there are walls running everywhere. If you are Palestinian, sometimes it is a huge effort to get from your house to your own farmland.

[Anonymous]

I wish the Native Americans had been as vocal and also had the unrelenting support that a few of you consistently espouse for Israel and Palestine. Today, in 2014, the poorest county in America with no electricity, is in South Dakota called Pine Ridge.

I feel deeply for and saddened for the Palestineans in their plight for freedom, and I also understand the fear of security for Israel. This is a very, very complex situation with no easy answers. Death and destruction.

But I will tell you that I feel some contempt when I hear both sides self-servingly spout on about the injustices but right under your noses you deliver not even lip service to right the wrong to Native Americans right here in 2014. Right here in America. When I start seeing that, maybe I will have more empathy with the hundreds of post here.

When I see your outrage and your anger for the number of Native American children and young adults who die of despair and physically in the bosom of the wealthiest nation on earth, then I will feel empathy in your words.

This forum has been a bully pulpit for a handful of posters. Good! That's the purpose of free speech and to call attention to injustices. I have done the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish the Native Americans had been as vocal and also had the unrelenting support that a few of you consistently espouse for Israel and Palestine. Today, in 2014, the poorest county in America with no electricity, is in South Dakota called Pine Ridge.

I feel deeply for and saddened for the Palestineans in their plight for freedom, and I also understand the fear of security for Israel. This is a very, very complex situation with no easy answers. Death and destruction.

But I will tell you that I feel some contempt when I hear both sides self-servingly spout on about the injustices but right under your noses you deliver not even lip service to right the wrong to Native Americans right here in 2014. Right here in America. When I start seeing that, maybe I will have more empathy with the hundreds of post here.

When I see your outrage and your anger for the number of Native American children and young adults who die of despair and physically in the bosom of the wealthiest nation on earth, then I will feel empathy in your words.

This forum has been a bully pulpit for a handful of posters. Good! That's the purpose of free speech and to call attention to injustices. I have done the same.

I have some sympathy for Indians. But they can buy land here. They can vote. They can travel out of the country at will and come back. They can go fishing off the coast. They can apply to colleges anywhere in the country. They can buy a house in Crown Heights. These are things a Gazan cannot do.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:I wish the Native Americans had been as vocal and also had the unrelenting support that a few of you consistently espouse for Israel and Palestine. Today, in 2014, the poorest county in America with no electricity, is in South Dakota called Pine Ridge.

I feel deeply for and saddened for the Palestineans in their plight for freedom, and I also understand the fear of security for Israel. This is a very, very complex situation with no easy answers. Death and destruction.

But I will tell you that I feel some contempt when I hear both sides self-servingly spout on about the injustices but right under your noses you deliver not even lip service to right the wrong to Native Americans right here in 2014. Right here in America. When I start seeing that, maybe I will have more empathy with the hundreds of post here.

When I see your outrage and your anger for the number of Native American children and young adults who die of despair and physically in the bosom of the wealthiest nation on earth, then I will feel empathy in your words.

This forum has been a bully pulpit for a handful of posters. Good! That's the purpose of free speech and to call attention to injustices. I have done the same.

Please, please, start a thread, or multiple threads, about Native Americans. I for one feel just as strongly about their plight as I do about those in the Middle East. Just today I was thinking of the impact of the United States on Native Americans and its similarity to Israel's impact on the Palestinians. Given the American experience, it is not unrealistic to assume that this ends with a soccer team in the capital of Israel named the Jerusalem Ragheads. Of course, the team's owner will argue that the name is meant to honor Palestinians.

I would be glad to see more attention shed on Native Americans and, especially, the history of their treatment in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish the Native Americans had been as vocal and also had the unrelenting support that a few of you consistently espouse for Israel and Palestine. Today, in 2014, the poorest county in America with no electricity, is in South Dakota called Pine Ridge.

I feel deeply for and saddened for the Palestineans in their plight for freedom, and I also understand the fear of security for Israel. This is a very, very complex situation with no easy answers. Death and destruction.

But I will tell you that I feel some contempt when I hear both sides self-servingly spout on about the injustices but right under your noses you deliver not even lip service to right the wrong to Native Americans right here in 2014. Right here in America. When I start seeing that, maybe I will have more empathy with the hundreds of post here.

When I see your outrage and your anger for the number of Native American children and young adults who die of despair and physically in the bosom of the wealthiest nation on earth, then I will feel empathy in your words.

This forum has been a bully pulpit for a handful of posters. Good! That's the purpose of free speech and to call attention to injustices. I have done the same.

I have some sympathy for Indians. But they can buy land here. They can vote. They can travel out of the country at will and come back. They can go fishing off the coast. They can apply to colleges anywhere in the country. They can buy a house in Crown Heights. These are things a Gazan cannot do.

I will give my attentions and carry the fight to what's right here. I feel as passionately about this as you do for events in another land.

Fair enough. I have more than just 'some sympathy.' I'm sure you feel the same about your cause. All the things Native Americans can do, as you say, takes money. From the perspective of the most impoverished county in the country, these freedoms don't come easily.

Nothing and nobody will ever convince me that this wrong should not be righted.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish the Native Americans had been as vocal and also had the unrelenting support that a few of you consistently espouse for Israel and Palestine. Today, in 2014, the poorest county in America with no electricity, is in South Dakota called Pine Ridge.

I feel deeply for and saddened for the Palestineans in their plight for freedom, and I also understand the fear of security for Israel. This is a very, very complex situation with no easy answers. Death and destruction.

But I will tell you that I feel some contempt when I hear both sides self-servingly spout on about the injustices but right under your noses you deliver not even lip service to right the wrong to Native Americans right here in 2014. Right here in America. When I start seeing that, maybe I will have more empathy with the hundreds of post here.

When I see your outrage and your anger for the number of Native American children and young adults who die of despair and physically in the bosom of the wealthiest nation on earth, then I will feel empathy in your words.

This forum has been a bully pulpit for a handful of posters. Good! That's the purpose of free speech and to call attention to injustices. I have done the same.

Please, please, start a thread, or multiple threads, about Native Americans. I for one feel just as strongly about their plight as I do about those in the Middle East. Just today I was thinking of the impact of the United States on Native Americans and its similarity to Israel's impact on the Palestinians. Given the American experience, it is not unrealistic to assume that this ends with a soccer team in the capital of Israel named the Jerusalem Ragheads. Of course, the team's owner will argue that the name is meant to honor Palestinians.

I would be glad to see more attention shed on Native Americans and, especially, the history of their treatment in this country.

PP here. I guess I get a little ticked off when I keep hearing about how Palestineans have been kicked off their land and how America should step in and help right the wrong and how outraged we as Americans should be. I keep reading Native Americans mentioned in the same vein as Palestineans having their land taken and all is forgotten. It burned me up.

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to vent. The Native American ordeal deserves as much attention to right the wrong. I just ask that the poster who continually uses them in his analogy understand that it's more to some of us than just a passing reference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish the Native Americans had been as vocal and also had the unrelenting support that a few of you consistently espouse for Israel and Palestine. Today, in 2014, the poorest county in America with no electricity, is in South Dakota called Pine Ridge.

I feel deeply for and saddened for the Palestineans in their plight for freedom, and I also understand the fear of security for Israel. This is a very, very complex situation with no easy answers. Death and destruction.

But I will tell you that I feel some contempt when I hear both sides self-servingly spout on about the injustices but right under your noses you deliver not even lip service to right the wrong to Native Americans right here in 2014. Right here in America. When I start seeing that, maybe I will have more empathy with the hundreds of post here.

When I see your outrage and your anger for the number of Native American children and young adults who die of despair and physically in the bosom of the wealthiest nation on earth, then I will feel empathy in your words.

This forum has been a bully pulpit for a handful of posters. Good! That's the purpose of free speech and to call attention to injustices. I have done the same.

I have some sympathy for Indians. But they can buy land here. They can vote. They can travel out of the country at will and come back. They can go fishing off the coast. They can apply to colleges anywhere in the country. They can buy a house in Crown Heights. These are things a Gazan cannot do.

I will give my attentions and carry the fight to what's right here. I feel as passionately about this as you do for events in another land.

Fair enough. I have more than just 'some sympathy.' I'm sure you feel the same about your cause. All the things Native Americans can do, as you say, takes money. From the perspective of the most impoverished county in the country, these freedoms don't come easily.

Nothing and nobody will ever convince me that this wrong should not be righted.

Did I say that? No.

You are the one attempting to force us to choose between two oppressed groups. I don't have to. If you ask me who has it worse, I will say Gazans for sure. Last time I looked, mid-2013, the unemployment rate for Native Americans was a bit above 11%. Care to guess the unemployment rate in Gaza? 41%. The unemployment rate for the US at the peak of the great depression? 21%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish the Native Americans had been as vocal and also had the unrelenting support that a few of you consistently espouse for Israel and Palestine. Today, in 2014, the poorest county in America with no electricity, is in South Dakota called Pine Ridge.

I feel deeply for and saddened for the Palestineans in their plight for freedom, and I also understand the fear of security for Israel. This is a very, very complex situation with no easy answers. Death and destruction.

But I will tell you that I feel some contempt when I hear both sides self-servingly spout on about the injustices but right under your noses you deliver not even lip service to right the wrong to Native Americans right here in 2014. Right here in America. When I start seeing that, maybe I will have more empathy with the hundreds of post here.

When I see your outrage and your anger for the number of Native American children and young adults who die of despair and physically in the bosom of the wealthiest nation on earth, then I will feel empathy in your words.

This forum has been a bully pulpit for a handful of posters. Good! That's the purpose of free speech and to call attention to injustices. I have done the same.

I have some sympathy for Indians. But they can buy land here. They can vote. They can travel out of the country at will and come back. They can go fishing off the coast. They can apply to colleges anywhere in the country. They can buy a house in Crown Heights. These are things a Gazan cannot do.

I will give my attentions and carry the fight to what's right here. I feel as passionately about this as you do for events in another land.

Fair enough. I have more than just 'some sympathy.' I'm sure you feel the same about your cause. All the things Native Americans can do, as you say, takes money. From the perspective of the most impoverished county in the country, these freedoms don't come easily.

Nothing and nobody will ever convince me that this wrong should not be righted.

Did I say that? No.

You are the one attempting to force us to choose between two oppressed groups. I don't have to. If you ask me who has it worse, I will say Gazans for sure. Last time I looked, mid-2013, the unemployment rate for Native Americans was a bit above 11%. Care to guess the unemployment rate in Gaza? 41%. The unemployment rate for the US at the peak of the great depression? 21%.

In deference to Jeff, I won't continue this discussion. Your facts and figures are meaningless if you don't understand the history and the present situation. Fight the fight for your cause, and I will do the same. Period.

I'm done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish the Native Americans had been as vocal and also had the unrelenting support that a few of you consistently espouse for Israel and Palestine. Today, in 2014, the poorest county in America with no electricity, is in South Dakota called Pine Ridge.

I feel deeply for and saddened for the Palestineans in their plight for freedom, and I also understand the fear of security for Israel. This is a very, very complex situation with no easy answers. Death and destruction.

But I will tell you that I feel some contempt when I hear both sides self-servingly spout on about the injustices but right under your noses you deliver not even lip service to right the wrong to Native Americans right here in 2014. Right here in America. When I start seeing that, maybe I will have more empathy with the hundreds of post here.

When I see your outrage and your anger for the number of Native American children and young adults who die of despair and physically in the bosom of the wealthiest nation on earth, then I will feel empathy in your words.

This forum has been a bully pulpit for a handful of posters. Good! That's the purpose of free speech and to call attention to injustices. I have done the same.

And they carry American passports!!!!

I have some sympathy for Indians. But they can buy land here. They can vote. They can travel out of the country at will and come back. They can go fishing off the coast. They can apply to colleges anywhere in the country. They can buy a house in Crown Heights. These are things a Gazan cannot do.

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish the Native Americans had been as vocal and also had the unrelenting support that a few of you consistently espouse for Israel and Palestine. Today, in 2014, the poorest county in America with no electricity, is in South Dakota called Pine Ridge.

I feel deeply for and saddened for the Palestineans in their plight for freedom, and I also understand the fear of security for Israel. This is a very, very complex situation with no easy answers. Death and destruction.

But I will tell you that I feel some contempt when I hear both sides self-servingly spout on about the injustices but right under your noses you deliver not even lip service to right the wrong to Native Americans right here in 2014. Right here in America. When I start seeing that, maybe I will have more empathy with the hundreds of post here.

When I see your outrage and your anger for the number of Native American children and young adults who die of despair and physically in the bosom of the wealthiest nation on earth, then I will feel empathy in your words.

This forum has been a bully pulpit for a handful of posters. Good! That's the purpose of free speech and to call attention to injustices. I have done the same.

Please, please, start a thread, or multiple threads, about Native Americans. I for one feel just as strongly about their plight as I do about those in the Middle East. Just today I was thinking of the impact of the United States on Native Americans and its similarity to Israel's impact on the Palestinians. Given the American experience, it is not unrealistic to assume that this ends with a soccer team in the capital of Israel named the Jerusalem Ragheads. Of course, the team's owner will argue that the name is meant to honor Palestinians.

I would be glad to see more attention shed on Native Americans and, especially, the history of their treatment in this country.

PP here. I guess I get a little ticked off when I keep hearing about how Palestineans have been kicked off their land and how America should step in and help right the wrong and how outraged we as Americans should be. I keep reading Native Americans mentioned in the same vein as Palestineans having their land taken and all is forgotten. It burned me up.

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to vent. The Native American ordeal deserves as much attention to right the wrong. I just ask that the poster who continually uses them in his analogy understand that it's more to some of us than just a passing reference.

You really think the present situation of the Native Americans is similar to the situation of the Palestinians? Com'on now you are more critical than that. Of course what has happened to the Native Americans historically is horrible and I don't think it is right at all, but they have things that the Palestinians do not have, they are recognized as American citizens, they have rights, they do not live under military occupation and are free to go all over the US, if anything when I meet a Native American, I have so much respect and love for them knowing what they have been through and knowing of their struggle to revive and conserve their culture and history. These are things that stateless Palestinians do not have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish the Native Americans had been as vocal and also had the unrelenting support that a few of you consistently espouse for Israel and Palestine. Today, in 2014, the poorest county in America with no electricity, is in South Dakota called Pine Ridge.

I feel deeply for and saddened for the Palestineans in their plight for freedom, and I also understand the fear of security for Israel. This is a very, very complex situation with no easy answers. Death and destruction.

But I will tell you that I feel some contempt when I hear both sides self-servingly spout on about the injustices but right under your noses you deliver not even lip service to right the wrong to Native Americans right here in 2014. Right here in America. When I start seeing that, maybe I will have more empathy with the hundreds of post here.

When I see your outrage and your anger for the number of Native American children and young adults who die of despair and physically in the bosom of the wealthiest nation on earth, then I will feel empathy in your words.

This forum has been a bully pulpit for a handful of posters. Good! That's the purpose of free speech and to call attention to injustices. I have done the same.

Let's take all the money we spend on Israel and give it to the tribes, then.