Palin Shocker

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[Post New]08/31/2008 16:22
Rich
Member Offline
Anonymous wrote:
Speaking of religion, here's an interesting sidelight:

When asked, at Saddleback, about the Supreme Court, McCain said there are four Justices he would not have appointed. They happen to be the four who are not Catholic (two Protestants and two Jews). Yet, in his first appointment, he chose an Evangelical Protestant. Much truer to McCain's promise was Obama, who, in spite of the fact that the one Justice he would not have appointed was a Catholic, chose a Catholic for his first appointment.

You just can't trust nobody when it comes to religion!


And the relevance of Biden's religion (as well as that of the various justices referenced) is precisely what??? I don't believe either
McCain or Obama endorsed a religious test for office during the Saddleback debate.

How nice to see that prejudice against Catholics alive and kicking in this day and age.

I guess it was naive of me not to add a smiley. I know my attempts at humor don't always make people laugh, but usually they at least get a moan that shows me people knew I was trying to be funny. I sometimes forget how much is lost in internet communication.

And just to set the record straight, I have nothing against Catholics. I went nuts electioneering for one four years ago. And I admire the Church's stands on capital punishment and Iraq. That's serious, by the way. But it would be ironic if I misinterpreted your statement and you were being ironic!
[Post New]08/31/2008 16:24
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:It is fairly unlikely, from a statistical point of view, that a 17 year-old girl would have a baby with Down syndrome. It is much more likely that a 44 year-old woman would do so (again, from a statistical probability point of view). Regardless of the statistical probabilities, I think this is a rather trashy angle to pursue, folks.


85% of babies with Downs are born to women under the age of 35.
[Post New]08/31/2008 16:29
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is fairly unlikely, from a statistical point of view, that a 17 year-old girl would have a baby with Down syndrome. It is much more likely that a 44 year-old woman would do so (again, from a statistical probability point of view). Regardless of the statistical probabilities, I think this is a rather trashy angle to pursue, folks.


85% of babies with Downs are born to women under the age of 35.


Of course they are, due to the sheer number of babies born to women under the age of 35. What percentage of Downs babies are born to girls of 16? Probably not a high percentage.

I just think this kind of thing is unworthy of us, and reeks of the kinds of things that Republicans usually do. Viral smears aren't the best way to make our case, are they? Don't you feel a tiny bit like you're crawling in a cesspool?
[Post New]08/31/2008 16:53
Anonymous
I love these upright moralists on a message board who want to shut down a discussion about a current and relevant topic because it's a little cringe-worthy. This is a discussion board...and for the record, I fail to see ANY parallel whatsoever to the slimy, racist push-polling by the Bush campaign about McCain's adopted daughter, which was racist and ignorant. The internet rumors about Palin's child are enough to raise eyebrows and provoke discussion, which is all we're doing.

If you find that discussion to be unpleasant or unpalatable, then don't read it.

No one thinks it odd or at the least, interesting, that Palin would get on a plane and give a speech in Texas when she's ready to give birth?? Then her water breaks there, she gives the speech and boards a plane TO ALASKA. Her fifth kid. And her daughter is MIA from school for five months? If this story turns out to be a turkey, mea culpa. But it's just too weird for me.
[Post New]08/31/2008 17:05
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I love these upright moralists on a message board who want to shut down a discussion about a current and relevant topic because it's a little cringe-worthy. This is a discussion board...and for the record, I fail to see ANY parallel whatsoever to the slimy, racist push-polling by the Bush campaign about McCain's adopted daughter, which was racist and ignorant. The internet rumors about Palin's child are enough to raise eyebrows and provoke discussion, which is all we're doing.

If you find that discussion to be unpleasant or unpalatable, then don't read it.

No one thinks it odd or at the least, interesting, that Palin would get on a plane and give a speech in Texas when she's ready to give birth?? Then her water breaks there, she gives the speech and boards a plane TO ALASKA. Her fifth kid. And her daughter is MIA from school for five months? If this story turns out to be a turkey, mea culpa. But it's just too weird for me.


Charming. Yes, a whole lot of people find it interesting and worthy of hours of discussion. I'm sure your mea culpa will be a great comfort to the 16 year-old daughter, if indeed the story turns out to be nothing more than unsubstantiated rumor. (That's what the McCain story was. The similarity here is the lack of credible evidence and the use of a teenage girl for political purposes.)

If you think it's okay to go after the teenage kids of a candidate, go ahead. But please don't pretend you're not sinking to a pretty low level here. I hope no one ever posts pictures of your teenage daughter and discusses the compelling issue of belly fat versus fetus.
[Post New]08/31/2008 17:16
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
I just think this kind of thing is unworthy of us, and reeks of the kinds of things that Republicans usually do. Viral smears aren't the best way to make our case, are they? Don't you feel a tiny bit like you're crawling in a cesspool?
.

She threw her own family into this particular cesspool by choice, and - in particular - is presenting this newborn baby as evidence of "walking her walk" re being righteously anti-choice.

Is attacking her children fair game? No. Is wondering about the values and judgment of any parent of a newborn (much less a special needs child) putting themselves forward as a VP nominee fair game? Unfortunately, no. Is finding out whether she has lied to her constituency and now to the rest of us about the parentage of this baby fair game? Yes. There are some compelling questions about this - and it may prove to be nothing. But the questions are fair.

A little different than going around spending millions of dollars of taxpayer money trying to prove someone had a blow job, imho.
[Post New]08/31/2008 17:22
Anonymous
If Obama had just had a child would you be equally opposed to his candidacy? If not, you're sexist.
[Post New]08/31/2008 18:05
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I love these upright moralists on a message board who want to shut down a discussion about a current and relevant topic because it's a little cringe-worthy. This is a discussion board...and for the record, I fail to see ANY parallel whatsoever to the slimy, racist push-polling by the Bush campaign about McCain's adopted daughter, which was racist and ignorant. The internet rumors about Palin's child are enough to raise eyebrows and provoke discussion, which is all we're doing.

If you find that discussion to be unpleasant or unpalatable, then don't read it.

No one thinks it odd or at the least, interesting, that Palin would get on a plane and give a speech in Texas when she's ready to give birth?? Then her water breaks there, she gives the speech and boards a plane TO ALASKA. Her fifth kid. And her daughter is MIA from school for five months? If this story turns out to be a turkey, mea culpa. But it's just too weird for me.


Charming. Yes, a whole lot of people find it interesting and worthy of hours of discussion. I'm sure your mea culpa will be a great comfort to the 16 year-old daughter, if indeed the story turns out to be nothing more than unsubstantiated rumor. (That's what the McCain story was. The similarity here is the lack of credible evidence and the use of a teenage girl for political purposes.)

If you think it's okay to go after the teenage kids of a candidate, go ahead. But please don't pretend you're not sinking to a pretty low level here. I hope no one ever posts pictures of your teenage daughter and discusses the compelling issue of belly fat versus fetus.


For the record, I didn't say a word in that post about belly fat. You did. And that's charming of you. I was talking about her bizarre Texas trip and her daughter's absence.

If a candidate doesn't want that level of scrutiny, she or he shouldn't run for public office. I certainly wouldn't and for that reason, I chose a large university and an anonymous profession because I like being a private person and I care too much about my family. My dad was a politician and I've had people call my father terrible names and worse growing up. My dad would leave us kids alone in restaurants while he politicked through the whole place and I hated every minute of it. I knew I didn't want that for my kids.

But this isn't about the 16 year old, it's about her mother, an ardent supporter of abstinence education (oops) and an anti-abortion hardliner.

[Post New]08/31/2008 18:11
jsteele
Site Admin Offline
Anonymous wrote:If Obama had just had a child would you be equally opposed to his candidacy? If not, you're sexist.


Um, which thread have you been reading? The issue is not simply one of having a baby. Nice strawman though.

Like another poster in this thread (one with whom I often find myself at odds), I don't think it is worthy of us to discuss the maternity of the baby. Is it really worth ruining a young girl's life (even if the story is true) to prove that her mom is a liar? Let me let you in on a little secret -- we already know her mom is a liar. She lied about not accepting the "bridge to nowhere" money and she lied about pressure being put on the Alaskan Public Safety Commissioner.

However, I think that it is fair to question her judgement in getting on a 12 hour flight after her water broke. That seems incredibly reckless. Almost as reckless as John McCain's wanting her to be a heartbeat from the presidency.


[Post New]08/31/2008 21:21
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Palin was absolutely pregnant. Have you seen video of her at the Gov Conference? She was very puffy, not the beauty queen she is today.


She is far from any beauty queen. As Bill Maher aptly stated today, it looks like, whereas George Bush sought to have his cleaning lady appointed to the Supreme Court, MCCain is basically saying that the only thing that lies between you and Al Queada is him -- unless he croaks. Then you will be in the hands of his STEWARDESS.

Seriously folks, updos are for special occasions, and they need to be well=washed the day after to get rid of all the gunk that goes into an updo. And updo is simply not a professional option. He hair looks like a rat's nest.

She's a joke. And while I am pro-choice, I have a lot of reservations as to whether I would ever have an abortion myself. Nevertheless, my idea when bringing children into this world and doing pre-natal testing has always been: would I want to join the world in this condition? Or would I take a pass? If I had Downs Syndrome, I would take a pass and so I would do so on behalf of my unborn child. Her choices seem very selfish: Five children, one with Downs who will have A LOT of special needs, but yep, she's ready to come to Washington and assume the VP spot.

I know this opinion will not be popular, but I think anyone that has 5 kids is, on their face, an asshole.
[Post New]08/31/2008 23:38
Anonymous
I am disgusted. This is by far the most horrible thread I have ever read on this site. Come on people. Please, please, don't do this.
[Post New]09/01/2008 00:02
Anonymous
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If Obama had just had a child would you be equally opposed to his candidacy? If not, you're sexist.


Um, which thread have you been reading? The issue is not simply one of having a baby. Nice strawman though.

Like another poster in this thread (one with whom I often find myself at odds), I don't think it is worthy of us to discuss the maternity of the baby. Is it really worth ruining a young girl's life (even if the story is true) to prove that her mom is a liar? Let me let you in on a little secret -- we already know her mom is a liar. She lied about not accepting the "bridge to nowhere" money and she lied about pressure being put on the Alaskan Public Safety Commissioner.

However, I think that it is fair to question her judgement in getting on a 12 hour flight after her water broke. That seems incredibly reckless. Almost as reckless as John McCain's wanting her to be a heartbeat from the presidency.





I'm going to guess you are a frequent reader of the lefty blog page DailyKos, no?
[Post New]09/01/2008 03:50
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
For the record, I didn't say a word in that post about belly fat. You did. And that's charming of you. I was talking about her bizarre Texas trip and her daughter's absence.

If a candidate doesn't want that level of scrutiny, she or he shouldn't run for public office. I certainly wouldn't and for that reason, I chose a large university and an anonymous profession because I like being a private person and I care too much about my family. My dad was a politician and I've had people call my father terrible names and worse growing up. My dad would leave us kids alone in restaurants while he politicked through the whole place and I hated every minute of it. I knew I didn't want that for my kids.

But this isn't about the 16 year old, it's about her mother, an ardent supporter of abstinence education (oops) and an anti-abortion hardliner.


The belly fat versus fetus argument is a prime piece of "evidence" in the DailyKos posting that accuses Palin of passing her daughter's baby off as her own. The DailyKos diarist has seen fit to publish photos of the daughter that "prove" she was pregnant. It's an abhorrent thing to do.

In regard to the Texas trip, you may want to go to the Anchorage newspaper and read their accounts rather than relying on DailyKos or Democratic Underground for your information. She was 8 months pregnant in Texas and began having some contractions. They were not active labor contractions. She knew the difference, having had four previous babies. Her doctor gave her the go-ahead to fly home, and they checked in with the doctor at different points during the trip. In the end, she had to be induced. Not my choices, when I was pregnant, but I have known several women who flew when they were 8 months pregnant.

There are many legitimate reasons to oppose Palin, such as her views on global warming or pay equity or creationism. The choice to have a baby with Down syndrome is not a legitimate reason to oppose her -- and it is something that engenders admiration, or at least sympathy, in many people, so that line of attack will backfire on you. Same thing with having five children. Again, not my choice, but do you feel the same way about, oh, say, the Kennedy families who have five or more children? Was Bobby Kennedy an "asshole"? Or do you use that term just for Republicans who have five kids? Rose Kennedy, was she an asshole? Joe Kennedy was, but not because he had so many children.

The unsubstantiated rumors about the baby, which Alaska reporters looked into very thoroughly and found to not be credible, are cruel to the teenage daughter. This stuff is beneath us. We cannot complain about vicious viral smears of Obama and then turn around and do this. Unless we have no integrity whatsoever, that is.
[Post New]09/01/2008 07:28
Anonymous
I agree. There are many more reasons to think this nomination is astonishingly bad. Even her mother-in-law thinks so. She told a the NY Daily News that she wasn't sure how she was going to vote and wasn't sure what Palin brought to the ticket.

But in regard to the baby thing, she wasn't just uncomfortable. Her water broke. She then got on an 11 hour flight?!? And didn't tell the airlines? Airlines don't want you flying in the final months, much less labor. Also wildly irresponsible. She put that baby at risk if so and any reasonable person would question her judgment.

[Post New]09/01/2008 08:01
Anonymous
You people watch way too much Desperate Housewives! None of these allegations have been proven -- from the daughter, to the water breaking, to her firing the safety commisioner because of her ex-BIL. They are all speculation. In fact the attorney general of AK looked into the safety commissioner issue and the only wrong doing he found was that one staffer made one inappropriate call and that staffer was immediately put on unpaid leave. Gov Palin denies knowing anything about that phone call. The legislature is looking in the issue, but has no findings at this point.

As for the pregnancy -- it was winter in Alaska! Of course it was easy to disguise the pregnancy! The risk of a 44 year old woman having a child with Down Syndrome is 1 in 40, the risk for a 15-19 year old is 1 in 1250.
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