Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And I take as genuine some people's belief that life begins at conception.

I don't, because almost all of them treat a miscarriage quite differently than they treat the birth of a child. When these people start holding funerals and writing obituaries for their 5-weeks-gestation miscarried "babies" (and they most certainly will soon!), same as they would for the tragedy of a 4-year-old who dies of leukemia, then I'll believe that they really think life begins at the moment of conception. In the meantime, it's abundantly clear that their chief unstated motive is to exert control over women's bodies and choices.

I had a burial for my 8 week gestation miscarriage, and mourned that child terribly. I honestly and truly believe that life begins at conception.

I haven't the slightest interest in controlling your choices that don't impact others....and ending the life of a child impacts that child. I am personally actually very pro-birth control...I think it prevents abortions, and is just a wonderful advance in people having control over their own reproductive lives, and I've used birth control myself. But I know that there are people who are opposed to it, and don't think they should be forced to pay for birth control when it violates their beliefs.

Shoiuld someone's religious belief trump the need for others to get help for a possible medical condition? If your religion tells you should have as many kids as your are blessed with, great, and if birth control was used ONLY to prevent pregnancy then I understand, but don't agree. However, I take the pill for a condition. If I had to pay full price for it, it would be a strain and I may have to skip a couple of months. That will impact my health and worsen my symptoms and condition.

So is it ok for me or other's to suffer because it goes agaisnt someone's religious beliefs?

Anonymous wrote:I believe that if men get prostate cancer, it is the will of the Lord for them to suffer and die and treating this condition interferes with the Lord's will. This affects me because I am part of an insurance group that offers unholy treatment for this condition, and I believe it is sinful to contradict His will yet my money pays for this.

Anonymous wrote:It boils down to abortion.

Anti abortion people are trying to get the camel's nose under the edge of the tent. Personhood laws are just a first step. If it's a person you can't abort it.

Same thing for the pill/IUD etc. If life begins when the sperm meets the egg, then you can't support interfering with implantation.

Religious people can't compromise on when life begins. They can't give any deadline when eliminating a zygote is OK. Because that would be admitting that there is some deadline where eliminating a zygote is OK.

Now, why this concern for the unborn in a society that shows so little regard for the living? That is another question. Of course there's the adorable little baby factor.

But if you ask many feminists, they will go back to power, specifically sexual power, specifically the awesome power of life that women possess, and me do not. Men's desire to own and control that power is what has defined gender roles and laws for millenia.

Basically I believe that allowing abortion acknowledges that females are the ultimate earthly arbiters of life and death. And no patriarchal religion, and no person indoctrinated by said religions, can tolerate that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe that if men get prostate cancer, it is the will of the Lord for them to suffer and die and treating this condition interferes with the Lord's will. This affects me because I am part of an insurance group that offers unholy treatment for this condition, and I believe it is sinful to contradict His will yet my money pays for this.

Fine. When you start a company that pursues your set of religious beliefs as part of its mission and you make that public, tell people before you hire them that you won't pay for the coverage. Fine by me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It boils down to abortion.

Anti abortion people are trying to get the camel's nose under the edge of the tent. Personhood laws are just a first step. If it's a person you can't abort it.

Same thing for the pill/IUD etc. If life begins when the sperm meets the egg, then you can't support interfering with implantation.

Religious people can't compromise on when life begins. They can't give any deadline when eliminating a zygote is OK. Because that would be admitting that there is some deadline where eliminating a zygote is OK.

Now, why this concern for the unborn in a society that shows so little regard for the living? That is another question. Of course there's the adorable little baby factor.

But if you ask many feminists, they will go back to power, specifically sexual power, specifically the awesome power of life that women possess, and me do not. Men's desire to own and control that power is what has defined gender roles and laws for millenia.

Basically I believe that allowing abortion acknowledges that females are the ultimate earthly arbiters of life and death. And no patriarchal religion, and no person indoctrinated by said religions, can tolerate that.

So how do you explain women who are pro-life? Are we all indoctrinated and incapable of coming to a pro-life conclusion without being pressured by men? If that is what you believe, you have a pretty dim view of the intelligence of hundreds of thousands of women.

RantingAtheist wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe that if men get prostate cancer, it is the will of the Lord for them to suffer and die and treating this condition interferes with the Lord's will. This affects me because I am part of an insurance group that offers unholy treatment for this condition, and I believe it is sinful to contradict His will yet my money pays for this.

Fine. When you start a company that pursues your set of religious beliefs as part of its mission and you make that public, tell people before you hire them that you won't pay for the coverage. Fine by me.

Meanwhile I'm going to deny black people coverage. Whoopee! Back we go to the days of Jim Crow...

(And you thought many of these questions were settled when blacks were given full rights as citizens at the point of a gun a half century ago. Guess not.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And I take as genuine some people's belief that life begins at conception.

I don't, because almost all of them treat a miscarriage quite differently than they treat the birth of a child. When these people start holding funerals and writing obituaries for their 5-weeks-gestation miscarried "babies" (and they most certainly will soon!), same as they would for the tragedy of a 4-year-old who dies of leukemia, then I'll believe that they really think life begins at the moment of conception. In the meantime, it's abundantly clear that their chief unstated motive is to exert control over women's bodies and choices.

I had a burial for my 8 week gestation miscarriage, and mourned that child terribly. I honestly and truly believe that life begins at conception.

I haven't the slightest interest in controlling your choices that don't impact others....and ending the life of a child impacts that child. I am personally actually very pro-birth control...I think it prevents abortions, and is just a wonderful advance in people having control over their own reproductive lives, and I've used birth control myself. But I know that there are people who are opposed to it, and don't think they should be forced to pay for birth control when it violates their beliefs.

Shoiuld someone's religious belief trump the need for others to get help for a possible medical condition? If your religion tells you should have as many kids as your are blessed with, great, and if birth control was used ONLY to prevent pregnancy then I understand, but don't agree. However, I take the pill for a condition. If I had to pay full price for it, it would be a strain and I may have to skip a couple of months. That will impact my health and worsen my symptoms and condition.

So is it ok for me or other's to suffer because it goes agaisnt someone's religious beliefs?

So don't work for an institution that takes those beliefs seriously. Work for someone else. [/quote]



Again, since Catholic hospitals seem to be taking over and spreading fast, that leaves a lot of people trying to work and support a family with not much choice. Especially in a rural area.
Same for treating women in a Catholic hospitals. The services they can receive are limited (refused hormonal birth control, refused hysterectomy, refused tubal ligation) Again, Catholic hospital takoever is making it difficult for some to get the care they need, but if they are limited in resources and transportation they have no choice.

So back to the topic.....it's about CONTROL.

Anonymous wrote:Actually this sudden burst of issues on this is because the economy is getting better and now it is not clear that the republicans can beat Obama on jobs 9the economy is doing a little better and it is possible by November will be doing much better) so instead they turn to the issues of abortion and contraception and try to swing votes in that way. The republicans can rely on the religious and others that hate women to join in the melee.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually this sudden burst of issues on this is because the economy is getting better and now it is not clear that the republicans can beat Obama on jobs 9the economy is doing a little better and it is possible by November will be doing much better) so instead they turn to the issues of abortion and contraception and try to swing votes in that way. The republicans can rely on the religious and others that hate women to join in the melee.

No the sudden burst of issues is because Obama's HHS issued a rule that requires religious organizations who have never paid for birth control to start doing so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And I take as genuine some people's belief that life begins at conception.

I don't, because almost all of them treat a miscarriage quite differently than they treat the birth of a child. When these people start holding funerals and writing obituaries for their 5-weeks-gestation miscarried "babies" (and they most certainly will soon!), same as they would for the tragedy of a 4-year-old who dies of leukemia, then I'll believe that they really think life begins at the moment of conception. In the meantime, it's abundantly clear that their chief unstated motive is to exert control over women's bodies and choices.

I had a burial for my 8 week gestation miscarriage, and mourned that child terribly. I honestly and truly believe that life begins at conception.

I haven't the slightest interest in controlling your choices that don't impact others....and ending the life of a child impacts that child. I am personally actually very pro-birth control...I think it prevents abortions, and is just a wonderful advance in people having control over their own reproductive lives, and I've used birth control myself. But I know that there are people who are opposed to it, and don't think they should be forced to pay for birth control when it violates their beliefs.

Shoiuld someone's religious belief trump the need for others to get help for a possible medical condition? If your religion tells you should have as many kids as your are blessed with, great, and if birth control was used ONLY to prevent pregnancy then I understand, but don't agree. However, I take the pill for a condition. If I had to pay full price for it, it would be a strain and I may have to skip a couple of months. That will impact my health and worsen my symptoms and condition.

So is it ok for me or other's to suffer because it goes agaisnt someone's religious beliefs?

So don't work for an institution that takes those beliefs seriously. Work for someone else.