Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You meaning you plural you and your DC. Or just your DC if there was no budget, no geographic limits, etc.

+1
Unfortunately, my DC had to go with our "top choice" as it was an in-state school. Even though her dream school was out of state, we couldn't help her financially achieve it and she had no aid or merit. It was super tough on all of us, but she was 17 when was was making this decision. We decided not to let a 17 year old saddle herself with that much debt. Even though she finds our in-state school "less exciting," she can graduate debt free.

We are paying so we get final say. Kids can’t borrow full COA anymore so no way for our kid to attend top choice at $95k/yr without our approval (aka check book!). Kid is at lowest cost option.

Student loan limits are:
1st-year undergrad 5,500
2nd-year undergrad 6,500
3rd- & 4th-year undergrad 7,500
Limit for all 4 years 31,000

Many parents do not realize things have changed and their kid cannot borrow for school like they did.

Now, the parents can borrow full COA, but rates and origination fees are insane. And they are the parents’ loans, not the kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With respect to Brandeis, Pepperdine, Tulane, etc. some schools just improved more.

Tulane is in a city that was devastated by a hurricane and had some bad press. I'm sure that influenced some potential students to look elsewhere, to Emory, etc. Also, Florida and Georgia were not nearly as strong academically as they are now.

Brandeis loses a lot of potential students who are Jewish to other Boston schools like BU and NEU. Supposedly BC has been trying to grow its Jewish student population.


Pepperdine is a religious school and much like Brandeis maybe they are just losing some students who in the past might have considered them due to changing demographics.

Improved or not, US News shifts were due to methodology change. Discussions of possible advancement or lack thereof are not pertinent.

Pepperdine was slipping before usnews ever changed their methodology.

Anonymous wrote:I think it sounds like an amazing opportunity. My kids are not great at languages so I am not directing them this way but if you son is fluent in Spanish and you think he can pick up a second language in Italian and perhaps a bit of French I think k he will be super successful.

As PP mentioned there may be some employers in the US who won’t recognize the degree but the multi national companies will and that’s who he’d want to target anyway. And once he has the first job all that matters is his employment record.

Of course it may mean that he ends up in Europe so you/he’d need to be ok with that.

Anonymous wrote:

Mambojambo2024 wrote:Hello,

Long time lurker but going through the process now with DS.
DS has done two summer pre-college programs in Soph and Jr year in Europe. While his top target schools are in the US, he has become enamored with ESCP. He toured their London campus and their Turin campus.

Has anyone here even heard anything about ESCP Business School or know kids that have applied or considered? I know in the US there are several t50 that have study abroad opportunities with ESCP. But the school is well known mainly in Europe. Seems like an incredible experience for those kids that know what they want to study. 3 years in 3 different campuses. Paris, London, Turin.

We recently met 3 recent grads from their BSC in Management program. Two American kids and one Mexican kid. They all spoke very highly of their experience. Definitely NOT the typical US college experience. Mexican kid is at McKinsey, one of the American kids at BCG and their other American friend at Airbus.

DS is fluent in Spanish, is learning Italian and has a EU passport alongside his US passport.

Looking at it from the context of an American parent about to drop $300k on an education, I just couldn’t believe how much cheaper Tuition is. You not only graduate in just 3 years, but Tuition for those with a EU passport is $18k. $54k for all 3 years vs $70k Plus for just one year at the private t60s schools he is looking at in the US. He is focusing on t20-t60 ranges.

I have a hard time believing a $300k+ education at a private t60 US college is 6x+ better than a business education at a good European Business school.

I dont know if he would ever come back to work in the US. He is 17. I’m assuming he would like to. My concern is how US employers would look at an American kid with a degree from an European Business school. He would likely stay in Europe to get a Masters right after graduating and maybe come back with 2 degrees in 4 years. For instance, ESCP has a priority application deal with Imperial College for some of their 1-yr MS programs.


Any info or commentary would be appreciated.


DS

Good points here but wondering why you are comparing to an expensive top 60 private? Why not a top 60 public that would be half the price? Also for US students who know what they want to study and attend a top 50+ public, they can graduate in 3 years due to DE and AP credits. Kind of sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that the EU option is better.

Anonymous wrote:

Mambojambo2024 wrote:I hear you. The decision to go abroad shouldn’t be done simply for financial reasons. I do wrestle with that thought….but I am leaving this decision up to my DS. Sure, we would save $250k plus over 4 years and this could give my DS an incredible head start in his life. But it shouldn’t be the primary motivation if the independence/maturity, initiative to understand why the kids wants to go abroad is not there to begin with.

We have also known 3 kids locally that attended UK schools simply for financial reasons. The results were all over the place. Not Oxbridge but Russell group unis. One couldn’t survive and returned year two after not adapting to their Lecture/Tutor system where 90% of your grade is one test at the end of the year. The other one is doing well and is graduating from Exeter in May with a degree in Marine Science and is currently applying to Masters programs all over the world. The 3rd one we know went to Bristol. Graduated in C. Engineering and is now back in the US working at a large international Engineering Construction firm. This one absolutely hated it when he was there. But now that he has been back for 2 years, he constantly talks about Bristol and how amazing it was….short memory I guess.

My concern is more with how US employers look at EU Business Schools. ESCP is not a UK school. It is a French school, that has a London campus and awards a UK degree.

When I look at say, a school like Tulane and its Freeman Business school (not picking on Tulane, amazing school, just an example of a private t50/t60), I have a tough time from just a Financial standpoint to find the value/benefit at $80k/yr vs ESCP at $56k for all 3 years.

Not sure but I would guess an "EU Business School" is probably worse than a UK school for the reasons mentioned above. It's even less relevant to US employers than UK schools, which are at least in the English speaking world. For employers well versed in international universities and different cultures/very international/global companies I assume it would be fine, though.

I would absolutely go with Tulane over this French school if your DC wants to do business in the U.S., ESPECIALLY if it's business in the southeast. Tulane is known to be a selective school with a great reputation in the U.S.

Anonymous wrote:American Paris HEC Diplômé here.

First, know that EU professors don't see their job as requiring coddling to students, any students. So expect that he will not be nurtured and he will be expected to act like an adult from day 1.

Second, he will have no problem getting a job in the EU. (I had multiple offers.)

Third and maybe most importantly, an EU degree will limit his options in the US. (It did to me.) While Mckinsey will recognize his degree, a rando HR employee at a [Regional Name or even National] bank won't. Nevertheless, he can overcome this by getting a grad degree in the US. Very typical path is Paris HEC -> consulting analyst-> top 10 US MBA-> consulting associate. Good luck and let us know what he decides.

Anonymous wrote:I know two girls who went to the UK for school. Both schools are great but not Oxbridge. Both went to a t5 NOVA HS. One is living in the UK working for a university in some sort of administrative role (secretary or something). The other is living with her parents at home and does some work as an artist.

Generally, I feel like peers who went to selective US colleges (roughly t40 or 50 before US News methodology change) were better off compared to those who went abroad, (especially if they planned to return to the US) with few exceptions.

Anonymous wrote:I

My son is finishing up at a comparable program for comparable reasons. We don’t yet know who any student who took a similar route who’s finished and gone on to work, grad school or Mom’s couch.

The benefits to a place like ESCP are that going to an EU program is a lot cheaper and safer than, say, going to Drexel with merit, and more fun and glamorous for a high-stats kid, from a distance at least, than going to UMBC or George Mason.
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