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SFL is a rec league and does not allow travel players, so that option doesn't exist. For the other leagues....you are only allowed one player card per soccer organization. The two soccer organizations are US Club soccer (ECNL, ECNL-R) and US Soccer (EDP, NCSL, CCL). You are allowed to be carded on one team in each organization. For example, you can be carded with VDA's ECNL and Manassas United EDP team. However, at least last year, ECNL had a rule that only two players can be carded on another team REGARDLESS of the organization of that additional team. So for example, You can be carded with VDA and Manassas as long as you are one of the two kids on VDA doing this (kids on an ECNL team and carded on another are considered "discovery players" and you can only have two discovery players). Also, some teams play in two leagues and that's allowed no issues. For example, if your team plays NCSL and EDP (both US Soccer), that's not an issue. You are technically only rostered on one team. MLS Next has rules that I don't know.
Pros: You get more games. Possibly more competitive games.
Cons: You have more games to go to and the player has more on his plate. Also, you won't be able to make all the practices for both and, if the kid plays in games for both, that can cause so frustration with the full time players and their parents on each team.
But it seems like every situation is different and people find loopholes or just plain cheat. Especially EDP. EDP is like the wild, wild west when it comes to rosters and, personally, I'm ok with it because, at certain levels and ages and especially for players who want to play after High School, you shouldn't care who the hell you are playing against. As a 10th grader, you shouldn't care who your opponent is.
Hope this helps a little and at least gets a conversation started for you. Good luck.
Pros: You get more games. Possibly more competitive games.
Cons: You have more games to go to and the player has more on his plate. Also, you won't be able to make all the practices for both and, if the kid plays in games for both, that can cause so frustration with the full time players and their parents on each team.
But it seems like every situation is different and people find loopholes or just plain cheat. Especially EDP. EDP is like the wild, wild west when it comes to rosters and, personally, I'm ok with it because, at certain levels and ages and especially for players who want to play after High School, you shouldn't care who the hell you are playing against. As a 10th grader, you shouldn't care who your opponent is.
Hope this helps a little and at least gets a conversation started for you. Good luck.
Only one type of cleats...Firm Ground. You don't need anything special for turf. Use your grass cleats on turf fields.
Looks like the mystery was solved. Hand gesture was for what the AR felt was offside and back...not saying the AR was correct, just saying that seems to be what he called. As to the deflection keeping the player onside, look 16 threads down on this forum. I started a thread called "Offside Offense" with new guidelines for this season on what is a deliberate play.
FPYCparent wrote:I'm going to hijack this thread instead of starting a new one. Feel free to send me hate mail.
During a match yesterday, a sideline ref made a call that looked like an over-and-back (or backcourt) violation signal from basketball. I don't yet have video of the play, but an attacker made a pass across the mouth of the goal to a trailing teammate. The receiving player shouldn't have been offside ... and the side ref didn't put his flag straight up in the air as one might expect for an offside call. Instead, the ref made the hopping motion with his flag like over-and-back/backcourt. I'm wondering what else that call could have been. (There was no other obvious foul and no goal was ultimately scored or wiped off due to the call against the offensive team.)
I guess I could go through referee training to figure out what the call was. {grin}
Thanks in advance!
There are no official flag movements for ARs (sideline ref or Assistant Referee) that you describe. My only guess in what you are describing (even though you said it didn't happen) is that the AR thought that, when the ball was played, the teammate was in front of the ball and the 2nd to last defender (so in an offside position) but when the teammate actually received the ball, he was back on side because the 2nd to last defender recovered between the ball and the GK. But what is normally done here is the AR pops his flag straight up and then with his empty hand makes the "backcourt" signal. I've never seen an AR try to make this signal with the flag but anything is possible. What was the restart? Was it an indirect kick (center referee holding his hand straight up until the ball is kicked) for the defending team from where the AR was standing? If so, it's probably what I described.
retiredref wrote:This clarification does not change the rule, it's just information to help referees make the determination if the ball is played deliberately or not. Don't think the timeliness of when this is pushed to referees will make things harder on them--it just means things will stay exactly as they are for now. As a ref there were times when this was a point of contention between game officials but not very often. If a player in a wall jumps up on a free kick and it hits his head is that deliberately playing the ball? He jumped to meet it so he did have intent to play the ball even if he didn't know when he jumped that the ball would actually come his way. While there may be some grey areas, it is usually pretty easy for the officials to tell the difference between deliberate play and a deflection.
Referees have to recertify every year so the process for pushing out IFAB updates is that they are included in the certification courses. While this isn't a change in the law, the enhanced guidance will definitely be a discussion topic, probably along with some video examples. Some referees recert over the summer so they will get these changes immediately but more don't recert until winter so there will be a lag for them. That said, every referee is expected to keep up with those changes on their own when they are published even though some are more conscientious than others about that. Since assignors are aware of that many will use en do f summer/early fall tournaments as an opportunity to highlight any significant changes and make sure the referees know about any new rules taking effect.
Correct. This is not a Law change, just guidance on how references should interpret the current Law. But I think most refs were not interpreting the Law this way, so this is a very big change in my opinion. I'm not following your example of the defender in the wall jumping and heading the ball. Are you saying that's a deliberate play or it isn't. In the spring MOST refs would have interpreted that as a deliberate play (it was even in some training videos that I watched as an example of deliberate play) that reset offside. NOW, based on the new guidance and the example videos, see Clip 11, this is not a deliberate play and does not reset offside. To be honest, I think 99% of refs I know would have said that every example in the videos were deliberate plays. The recertification process is already out. so it won't include any of this and, which assignors do you think will send this out? My guess is none, but you never know. Again, it's just my opinion that this will add confusion. As to the other post...I see this several times a season and when it does happen, it almost always leads to a 1vGK, which normally results in a goal and all hell breaks loose because more often than not, the AR has his flag up and/or the coach is screaming or the parents are screaming or the players are screaming or everyone is screaming. But with that all said, I thought I'd share so that at least the folks who read the post are aware and are informed of the new guidance.
Hello-Looks like IFAB attempted to clarify what a "deliberate play" by a defender is that nullifies an offside offense.
https://www.theifab.com/news/law-11-offside-deliberate-play-guidelines-clarified/
The odd thing is that this information does not automatically get pushed out to all the referees, so expect alot MORE inconsistency when it comes to referees calling or not calling offside after a defender "deliberately plays" the ball and the ball then goes to an attacker who was in an offside position when the ball was originally played by their teammate. I hope I said that right. : ) Good luck to all the referees out there.
https://www.theifab.com/news/law-11-offside-deliberate-play-guidelines-clarified/
The odd thing is that this information does not automatically get pushed out to all the referees, so expect alot MORE inconsistency when it comes to referees calling or not calling offside after a defender "deliberately plays" the ball and the ball then goes to an attacker who was in an offside position when the ball was originally played by their teammate. I hope I said that right. : ) Good luck to all the referees out there.
socalsori1980 wrote:At the risk of outing myself, my 2010 daughter and 2011 son were selected as rec all stars from their rec teams and are playing in this tournament.
The fields listed on the schedule are a joke. We went to find them tonight. Stringfellow field 2-3 is just grassy hills in the middle of woods, and Greenbriar field 4 is just a patch of grass covered in deep ruts all over the grass and poison ivy right next to the field and there is gravel and rocks all over the field. No goals, no lines. They are also scheduled to play at some elementary school which I doubt is a real field either. What the hell? (And there is a nice turf field at this same Greenbrier park that they aren't using?)
This tournament was more expensive than travel tournaments our teams played in our old state and I have no interest in watching my kids break their ankles playing on these sh!t excuses for fields.
There is no way these fields can be made safe for play by Saturday.
Is it common knowledge around here to avoid participating in this clown show? No one warned us they wouldn't be playing on real fields. How do they get away charging $800/team for this?
How were these fields come game time? Was the entry fee really $800?
Hi, So I post on the Soccer forum so I logged in so I can post there. However, I'd like to post anonymously on other forums but it will not let me log out. I click log out. It goes to the log in screen but, if I click back into the forums, I'm logged back in automatically. Any thoughts?
socalsori1980 wrote:Not sure what the referees have access to, but the official schedules have U11-boys games scheduled for Greenbriar 4, which is a patch of grass next to Greenbriar 5 (the actual turf soccer field)
U11 and U12 boys are also playing only on elementary fields at Little Run, Olde Creek.
U12 girls are playing at Stringfellow meadows.
U11 girls are scheduled for turf, oddly, considering U12 boys are not even on soccer fields.
A parent I spoke with who played in this tournament last year said her U11 boy played on turf fields.
No rec leagues played U11 and up games on any of these fields this season. Our rec league wouldn't practice on a field as bad as Greenbriar 4.
The amount of work FPYC is going to have to put into lining all this random grass, installing goals, cleaning up weeds and rocks, is tremendous. I can't believe they have the volunteer manpower for that.
https://soccer.sincsports.com/schedule.aspx?tid=FDAS&tab=4&sub=0
Little Run and Olde Creek are in very good shape. BRYC Rec uses them. It sounds like your kids are playing on the worse fields of them all. Like the previous poster said, these two fields do not represent the quality of all the fields. With that said, if you don't want your kids playing on them, back out.
skytalon_fc wrote:SoccerCzar wrote:
I was at River City Sports Complex the entire weekend of ECNL Showcase in Richmond. I watched some games of the local teams...Loudoun, Arlington, VA Union, and BRYC.
This weekend, I heard an ECNL referee crew didn't notice that one team was playing with 12 players, and the team with the extra player scored 2 goals before the refs figured it out. Not one but 2 goals! That's rough.
Yikes. Doesn't sound good. Glad to say I was not on that crew.
I took charge of an Arlington match (06) and was AR on a couple of BRYC games.
Did you AR the BRYC 06 game where no one could hear the CR's whistle?
skytalon_fc wrote:SoccerCzar wrote:
I was at River City Sports Complex the entire weekend of ECNL Showcase in Richmond. I watched some games of the local teams...Loudoun, Arlington, VA Union, and BRYC.
This weekend, I heard an ECNL referee crew didn't notice that one team was playing with 12 players, and the team with the extra player scored 2 goals before the refs figured it out. Not one but 2 goals! That's rough.
Yikes. Doesn't sound good. Glad to say I was not on that crew.
I took charge of an Arlington match (06) and was AR on a couple of BRYC games.
Did you do the Arlington 06 game vs National FC? It was a rematch of the USYS National Championship from last year. I would not have wanted to ref that game.
skytalon_fc wrote:Figured I'd make an account for the sole purpose of this post. I'll start talking more in here.
I'm a referee in the DMV, I've been going for about four years and I'd call myself a pretty good referee. I've got a range of experience and I'd say I'm better than a few of the "regional" referees you'll see out there. I've still got plenty to learn but I'm mighty passionate about it and I have some very strong opinions about the perceptions of referees. I think Taylor Twellman and Alexi Lalas have peanut brains and shouldn't be employed in soccer, solely because of how they've contributed to the perception of referees and how often they're just outright wrong. I'll go to a word war over refereeing and most often find myself cheering on the referees rather than teams, except when watching a specific handful of teams.
What league has the best referees?
As some may be aware, High School referees need a separate certification than club soccer. HS referees vary tremendously in quality - regular season it's a little underwhelming but playoff referees are generally pretty well seasoned.
ECNL referees are entirely dependent on the HOME club. Maryland clubs will have pretty poor quality, as the assigning in Maryland isn't really ideal. I'm slightly unfamiliar with how Loudoun soccer assigns as they're pretty far from where I'm at and I tend not to go that far unless I need to. VDA, BRYC, McLean, and Arlington are all assigned by the same assignor, and he is a wonderful assignor and human being. Rarely are you going to see referees who stay in the center circle. You'll probably get a bit less experience, but they're not bad at all. Arlington started with really bad referees as they started the season with a really bad assignor, but they soon moved onto the better one.
MLS NEXT will have the highest quality referees in the country. The reason is that all MLS NEXT is assigned by the National Assignors pool. The same referees that are refereeing USL League Two and other adult amateur/semi-pro leagues are going to be refereeing MLS NEXT. In the DMV, sometimes those referees can be underwhelming - so don't expect anything near perfection - but it'll be the highest quality you'll get at the youth level.
SoccerCzar, I was one of the referees at the ECNL National Showcase in Richmond - hope I fell into that category of "excellent!" - what team(s) were you watching? I may have been involved in a match of yours.
RantingSoccerDad, I'm curious. What levels do you tend to ref at?
I was at River City Sports Complex the entire weekend of ECNL Showcase in Richmond. I watched some games of the local teams...Loudoun, Arlington, VA Union, and BRYC.
This weekend, I heard an ECNL referee crew didn't notice that one team was playing with 12 players, and the team with the extra player scored 2 goals before the refs figured it out. Not one but 2 goals! That's rough.
I was at the ECNL National Showcase in Richmond this weekend and, overall, good refs, but there some really, really bad ones. Centers that won't leave the center circle. Refs that lose control of the match by not calling fouls early. Refs that don't want to give cards. Slow/Lazy ARs that can't keep up. But there were some excellent ones and several from the DMV area that I recognized. So...even at National events, you get the same refs as you do do anywhere else. Kids just need to continue to just play and deal with whatever comes their way, but I do wish there was a way to give feedback to refs. Maybe they don't know how bad they are.
RantingSoccerDad - Do you think you are good referee?
RantingSoccerDad - Do you think you are good referee?
I saw some very good and some absolutely awful refs this season in HS. I would say the ECNL refs have been pretty solid this year. I haven't see any MLS Next games. I would say ECNL>HS by far this season.
SoccerQs wrote:If you have a kid who loves to play soccer, and plays a lot of soccer, what steps or limits do you put on him/her to prevent overtraining/overuse injuries?
I have a U12 boy whose doctor is concerned that overuse is a factor in a recent injury. He's suggesting that DS take the summer off from soccer, which we can do this summer, but I wonder what it means for next year once he moves up, because MLS Next teams (his goal) seem to run from September to mid July.
Also, if you stop your kid from playing soccer, do you stop things like pick up, or practicing on his own in the backyard? Or just team membership? If they just do something else (summer swim, sports camps for another sport, playing basketball in the neighborhood) does that still help?
This overuse stuff never made much sense to me for soccer players. What is being over used? His legs? What sport doesn't use your legs? To your point, what is a kid supposed to do, take 3 months off and sit on the couch? I understand swimming is low impact but even when my kid goes to the pool, he spends most of his time running around. When I think of overuse injuries, I think of pitchers in baseball not soccer players who run, jump, slide, kick, etc. However, I think playing multiple sports is great for soccer players. I think basketball, volleyball, football (flag or tackle), and others are all good supplements for soccer. With that said...my kid has played soccer year round for the past 8 years I guess and so far so good. When he played other sports, he played soccer and that sport. He never stopped playing soccer. There are always burnout concerns but if your kid loves it, let him play...as much as he wants. If your son hasn't started strength training yet, I would encourage that. Builds strength and injury prevention. Start with body weight and start adding weights.