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I think playing up is fairly uncommon because it is rare that exceptional players warrant it and it makes sense for their development. There are lots of factors that should go into whether playing up a year makes sense including the nature of their advanced skill, physical stature, the performance levels of both age groups in that particular position, the coaching environment etc. Playing up typically occurs as a result of players being more physically mature than their peers. Usually this is a temporary thing, and the gap closes by U16 (for girls anyway) at which point the player may return to his/her age group. In any event, I have never seen a club that wouldn't at least consider it if it makes sense. My point is there is alot involved in that decision that may or may not be evident. Conversation is probably required with the club.
I am dubious that pro/rel is really much of a player in terms of what ails youth soccer. Recall that we used to have a great example or pro/rel when WAGS was a league. It failed in the current youth soccer environment after surviving for a 40 years according to their site. What makes you think that it would survive now just a few short years later? It failed because families were seeking a higher level of play and to be exclusive. And while some in ECNL complain about the travel, if you really asked, I think you would find that most players and families love the format and don't want it to change.
It was mentioned previously that the landscape we have is driven ultimately by the desires of those paying for it. It will only change when people stop paying for it.
It was mentioned previously that the landscape we have is driven ultimately by the desires of those paying for it. It will only change when people stop paying for it.
TedLasso wrote:
Youth soccer would be so much better if there was pro/rel throughout but there's way too many different leagues/clubs currently to pull that off.
TedLasso, why would youth soccer be so much better with pro/rel ?
ECNL would be better with a pro/rel system than this mega merger BS. The 07 boys GFR team could play in ECNL today if there was promotion. How many lifelong Loudoun players will get cut to make room on a combined team ?
It would be hard to see how that would be better for ECNL. ECNL has a form of pro/rel already, just not the one you want. It's implemented at the club level vs the team level. Mostly it's been promotion in the last few years as they pick off decent GDA teams, but with RL, they're already set up to do a pro/rel system. I'm not sure it's happened yet, but at some point, they could decide to promote an RL club to ECNL or relegate an ECNL club that performs poorly across all age groups over a period of years to RL. This would retain the club centric ECNL model that relies on the inertia present in member clubs to foster development across age groups.
A pro/rel arrangement at the team level would require a complete rework of ECNL to implement. To keep costs under control, they would have to move towards more of a regionalized model since teams would lose the economies of traveling/coaching as a club. It would require significantly more management and would drive costs significantly for players. It would be great for allowing good teams from smaller clubs on the outside in, at the expense of current ECNL clubs to some extent.
So... pros and cons I think, but definitely not in the best interests of ECNL and their member clubs. For them, it's working great. What they could do easily is open up their showcases to invite in single teams on an invitation only basis but I haven't seen any of that going on.
Ihatedumbsoccerparents wrote:Anyone on this board have first hand experience on any other umbrella situations…VDA, Brave, Union? I’m new to NOVA and don’t know the history of those clubs. Obviously Loudoun is the stronger club of the 3 for NVA no offense meant to any club. Did any other situation have a similar feel of the power/rankings dynamic as these 3?
What would you like to know?
1. VDA was the first of the alliances to form quite a few years back. Then Union (McLean/SYC) a couple of years ago, then Brave, and now this Loudoun thing.
2. Union has by far the longest and best reputation for college placement of girls at least. VDA is next, then Loudoun and Brave. YMMV. Boys are a different story.
3. Loudoun is the largest alliance, Brave and Union are probably the smallest. I haven't counted, this is just my sense.
4. In the Union alliance, a handful of SYC girls make the ECNL ranks, but the teams are run by McLean for the most part.
awesomepossum wrote:ECNL told McLean and BRYC to merge to become Union and Brave and if you look at the branding for Alliance I assume they told Loudoun to do this merger. They’ve voiced they don’t want to add new teams in Northern Virginia and the Mid Atlantic conference is huge. It does allow them to get more Clubs involved in ECNL in some form. It might help Loudoun a little but mostly it makes Great Falls and Valor part of the ECNL umbrella in some form. That’s my take…
Nonsense.
1. ECNL has no interest in directing club mergers. Alliance or no alliance, the best female players gravitate to ECNL anyway. It's been that way as long as ECNL has been around.
2. Neither Valor nor GFR were even close to qualifying for ECNL membership. For them, this is a weak attempt to claim they are keeping their best girls in the system, however based on the way that similar alliances work, they will not have much of a part in running the ECNL teams.
3. VA Union is an alliance between McLean and SYC. BRYC is not involved. There are/were different/additional motivations for this alliance than the Loudoun alliance.
4. For all 3 clubs, this may allows control of more field space and leverage with county resources.
soccer4life wrote:We did what research we could when selecting which club/coach our daughter wanted to commit too but no matter what you find out you never really know how that coach will be with your daughter and team until after you've accepted and season begins. You'll see what you want to see you'll hear what you want to hear and then season begins. We are trying to "trust the process" as we are often told but it's hard to do that when you've been trying to give this club the benefit of the doubt lacking in direction, leadership, COMMUNICATION. The biggest disappointment has been in the lack of support, experience, leadership and communication from her coach. We don't know if in-experience blindsides leadership decisions or what? We want our daughter to develop, be pushed if that takes stern/harsh coaching tactics/tell it like it is direction and leadership. At least then she'll know what strengths she excels at and what weaknesses to work harder on rather than playing the guessing game with her coach wondering/questioning her own development, confidence, being an asset to the team. We are currently attending other club practices to see their coaches in action. The hard thing about that is you don't know if coaching slate will change.
Sigh. And to really ruin your day, lest you think that it gets better in college... it doesn't. The coaches and/or programs at the college level, generally speaking, are only of slightly better quality or integrity than at the club level. Making it even tougher, your player has less ability to scout the situation in advance, and even worse options to get out after you get a taste that freshman year. It's no wonder that the fallout rate in college soccer is so high.
NoYou wrote:The Guardian really takes the US style of play to task after the loss to the Netherlands.
"What did the US lack most at the World Cup? Football intelligence"
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/04/what-did-the-us-lack-most-at-the-world-cup-football-intelligence
"This is a difficult one to handle,” Berhalter reflected when interviewed on the pitch after full-time. “We came up short today, but not for a lack of effort.” Effort may not have been lacking, but many other qualities essential to footballing success were: commitment off the ball, defensive nous, ruthlessness in front of goal. Despite the precision of the opposition’s finishing, the US were not undone by moments of individual brilliance, quirks of technology, or other acts of semi-divine footballing intervention; instead their demise was almost entirely self-inflicted. The US failures were in defense and attack, basic areas of core technical competence. Truly, this was a team who saved their worst for last."
"USA’s familiar shortcomings exposed against clinical Dutch at World Cup"
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/03/usa-netherlands-world-cup-2022-soccer-last-16
"The Americans’ profligacy from promising attacking positions, their imprecision in building chances from possession and their consistently poor set-pieces all came under a harsh glare on the world stage after persisting through an often-rocky World Cup qualifying campaign. For three matches in Qatar they were able to make up the difference with closely knit team play fueled by boundless energy in midfield. But when the reserves ran dry on Saturday night, their defects finally caught up with them."
How many US Youth soccer matches have I seen with this same style of play. Run-run-run-run until you are tired and then sub out someone else who run-run-run-run-runs. It's frustrating that this mentality has such a hold in the US when over and over again it isn't working at the top levels.
I don't think there is anything wrong necessarily with the high effort, athletic style that we play with. It's a byproduct of our soccer culture and won't change until our system matures. Better coaching at the youth and college levels is needed to change our emphasis, and that will take some time. In any event, it's not why we lost against the Netherlands. I thought the team made a decent showing overall against a very good Netherlands team. It's just one game. If we had simply picked up the late attackers and had half of their finishing ability ourselves, we would have been dangerous.
I don't think we can expect to win the world cup at this stage, but this was a decent start at regaining some respect. Given the parity that now appears to exist, we're at least in the mix for 2026.
retiredref wrote:When a opponent is allowed to score the same goal twice in one match you have to look at the tactical approach and the management. Why were there no adjustments to the tactics to prevent from from scoring the same goal again? Even worse when considering the same play created a couple other chances just as good which were sent high or wide.
Not picking up the third or fourth man joining the attack isn't so much a matter of management or strategy as it is an individual responsibility. Semantics maybe, but I would lay that one at the feet of the players involved, not so much coaching.
soccerx3kidsss wrote:soccer_dc wrote:Sorry to answer your question with questions but so many variables go into "best" coach. Knowing the ages of your kids would help certainly. But also what are you looking for in best? Best college exposure and connections? Best at motivating kids? Best fun team atmosphere? Best private lessons? What kind of track record - winning tournaments, placing players in D1 colleges, professional players? Keep in mind at most clubs you won't have the same coach for more than a couple of years so it might be a better question to ask about clubs instead of coaches. Even still, everyone's experience with a coach and club is different so it's really an individual decision based on your own kid.
I'm just curious about who has a solid reputation in the area. Seems like good coaches are hard to find and change very often. I have 3 kids 8, 11, 16. Like give me some recommendations of who you would have your kid play for. Competitive travel soccer.
I'll bite. "Best" is kind of a curious term when evaluating youth clubs/coaches. All have pros and cons, so you have to consider the good with the bad. Alot depends on your geography and goals. If you've got girls and are aiming at college play ultimately, the best choices narrow to a few clubs/coaches, usually ECNL. Generally people in this category are willing to travel farther for it. If you aren't aiming at college play you are likely less willing to travel and coach selection becomes harder since the second tiers of coaches are much more transient. The below is aimed at the player targeting college and focuses on the clubs/coaches I know. My opinions only, YMMV.
TSJFCV: best college placement record currently, can be political/turbulent. Mostly based at Evergreen in Loudoun County. Christian is generally regarded as a good coach, Bobby can be polarizing; a mediocre soccer coach but great for college placement. Uncertain long term future since they are effectively locked out of ECNL. They still seem to find ways to place more girls at higher levels than any other club in the past two years though.
McLean: tremendous college placement history, but middling lately. Dwindling coaching roster and questionable leadership over the last few years. Brent is probably their best coach. Nadir is polarizing/volatile, Clyde on the way out and is best avoided. Club is still a great choice if you have a P5 player.
BRYC/Brave: middling college placement, many teams struggling to compete in ECNL. No specific coaching recommendations.
VDA: Bobby. Ugh.
Arlington:
Having been through it, I don't think there is anything we did in club soccer that matched winning a state HS championship. And obviously it wasn't the quality of the soccer, it was the quality of the experience of doing it with her friends, for her school. For kids playing ECNL, state championships aren't even in play, but I would put the HS championship above a champions league win in ECNL as well.
Pepe wrote:Blutarski wrote:Anecdotally, U17 recruiting seems to be on track with most ECNL teams having at least a handful of commits already. Hopefully your daughter's recruiting drive includes more than college questionnaires. Unless you're a top 100 player, the passive approach likely won't get it done. She really needs to have an active email campaign at a minimum advertising her presence at showcase X. Coaches are unlikely to scout a player without knowing the player has interest in advance. ID camps may or may not make sense as well.
Oh, the questionnaires was just what we were doing today. I guess it was on the mind. We e-mail a LOT and use SportsRecruits as it's very easy. Just put in college/uni and the coaches pop right up. Been to ID camps, but regional, nothing too far. We just hear how some uni's were very active before and then when the time came, ghosted some girls. We have till next June before she can enter into real dialog, but I like to see the process from all over. Seems straight forward really, you get out what you put in and yes, passively wishing for a coach to spontaneously find you so awesome they come to you is probably rare. She's pretty amped for showcases and I must say, thinking back a few years ago, a lot on this site poo-pooed showcases, but dang... SO many colleges watch us. It feels like there's at least one in there
Nice! Sounds like your dd is a sophomore playing U17 and will have two years at U18/19. It's tough when your player can't hear from coaches and some of her teammates can. I have one in college now but I remember some schools being active with communication then dropping off with no apparent reason. The process can be unkind.
From my perspective, video and emails can get you on a list, but the showcases are where most of the evaluation happens. I suspect we could have skipped all the id camps and achieved the same result. Everyone's path is different though. Enjoy this time, it goes fast, and college soccer is a different animal.
Anecdotally, U17 recruiting seems to be on track with most ECNL teams having at least a handful of commits already. Hopefully your daughter's recruiting drive includes more than college questionnaires. Unless you're a top 100 player, the passive approach likely won't get it done. She really needs to have an active email campaign at a minimum advertising her presence at showcase X. Coaches are unlikely to scout a player without knowing the player has interest in advance. ID camps may or may not make sense as well.
Ihatedumbsoccerparents wrote:Lol man I wanted to see this thread
Here is what the original post contained.
Day 1
Dear Diary,
Jimmy returns for another season of club soccer and we just can’t wait! His u15 team did great last season. We won the second lowest division of Mid Atlantic Cup, the team will be competing in EDP and I really think Jimmy has an opportunity to play at U of Maryland one day. We’ll do anything to help get him there. He’s been training 18 times a day but it’s all he wants to do, we dont push him extra hard we just try to stay out of the way and let the chips fall where they may. I’ll write another update after a few sessions and their first scrimmage.
Day 7
Dear Diary,
It’s been one week and Jimmy is probably going to play in the World Cup one day. He’s a sophomore in HS and doesn’t start for his public HS JV team, but the kids on his club team are just so good that I know he’s going to be such a big time soccer player one day. We have only had 2 practices in the past week and I’ve told his coach that I think we really need to pump those numbers up. Two-a-days three times a week on top of his HS practice and game schedule should be manageable. He’s only 15 anyway, right? This week we had our first club scrimmage, I was sitting over on the bleachers w the other parents but when I saw one of the other parents stand next to the bench, I thought to myself…why aren’t I standing next to the bench too?? Jimmy just really likes to have me around so I wanted to support him, he played half the game but I think coach will come around. I’ve really been talking to his coach about all of these great tournaments coming up, I expect we’ll have every weekend and holidays booked with tourneys!! Future Terp on the horizon baby!!
Day 14
Dear Diary,
I was speaking with one of the other parents at Jimmy’s JV game today. He said that he was talking to his son’s club soccer coach, he plays in pre-ECNL all the way out in Manassas which is a bit of a hike for us here in Frederick, but he was saying that he knows one of the U of MD’s assistant coaches!!! We told our coach today that Jimmy plans on switching clubs ASAP. We are fine with laying the rest of the club dues and making the extra drive, I’m sure MSYSA might have a small problem w him switching teams but as long as we pay both clubs, what’s the problem?! I also made sure to sign Jimmy up for 26 different D1 ID Camps in case Sasho doesn’t rate him. Nothing too serious, just UCLA, Indiana, UVA, Stanford, schools like that. We’re going to have a great summer next year!
Day 21
Dear Diary,
Jimmy has started half of his games for his JV team and the new ECNL club is working out great. They originally told us before we signed up that Jimmy will be playing ECNL, when come to find out he’s actually playing for the club’s red team just under ECNL, but he’ll get there one day I just know it. His old coach was really patient with him and played him in his favorite position, lol what a pansy ass. This new coach loses his temper with him every practice and I’m just here for all of it, he’s gonna whip Jimmy right into shape who cares if he’s never played left back before. We went to a MD game together last night and I waited 4 hours afterward for Coach Sasho so we could say hello. He said he’s never heard of the 2008 Manassa Red Pre-Pre-ECNL team before but that’s ok, we’ll be on the map before you know it.
Day 60
Dear Diary,
High school season just ended. Unfortunately Jimmy didn’t get called up to varsity, I asked the coach about it a few hundred times and he just said that Jimmy is “slow and uncoordinated”. So we hired him a physical and personal trainer to make sure he’s getting some extra training in on his own, it’s what he wants. His current club team only practices three times a week during the fall and we only play in tournaments, I keep telling him that the other parents and I would be more than willing to spend the extra money so they play 5 matches every weekend but he just kind of rolls his eyes and walks away. That’s ok. Jimmy has been having injury issues lately and I’m not really sure why, but I’m sure the new trainers will help him get stronger.
Day 90
Dear Diary,
It’s almost winter time. I’ve looked into every possible option for Jimmy to play futsal since his club team only trains twice a week in the winter. I also paid Soccerwire for him to be a featured player, and created this awesome Instagram and TikTok profile so all of the assistant college coaches can monitor his progress. We put together a new highlight tape which was only really 30 seconds long, but I think if one or two big time D1 college coaches see it then maybe they’ll mention something to Sasho. Big season coming up in the Spring. The new trainees have been great. Jimmy asked me if he could die his hair bright purple and has been getting in trouble at school lately, I think it’s because he’s just so excited to be a professional soccer player. Hopefully Maryland can give him a full ride, so we can afford to keep paying for his nutritionist and extra training year round. Big things coming up baby!