Anonymous wrote:Dear Amazing "Ugly" Woman On This Thread,

You all sound amazing. I would love to be friends with you.

Thank you for your eloquent and humorous perspectives on something that people do not talk about. It is hard to get people to admit that there is not a "fix" for everything that is deemed by culture as being "unattractive".

Note: I do not personally believe that you "need" to "fix" these "unattractive" things. I wish that we could, instead, "fix" the social messaging that devalues people who are not considered attractive.

If all my friends were as confident and self aware as you all, I would consider myself very lucky indeed.

Signed,

Girl who has always been pretty by conventional standards

Beautifully put. The PP I quoted is right.

To all the "ugly" women here, I am so sorry about the cruelty you have endured. I'm aghast that a group of boys would publicly vote on who is the "ugliest girl in school", or someone would tell you "You hit every branch." I know you've probably been too hurt to believe me when I say this, but I'll say it anyway: attraction is so subjective and impossible to calculate that it really is impossible to measure beauty.

I can practically see you rolling your eyes with impatience over this - maybe you think I'm just another kind, well-meaning person who is telling you bs about self-esteem and "everyone is beautiful." But what I'm saying really is the truth. Not that "Everyone is beautiful", but "everyone is beautiful and ugly". You are going to be judged by people with wildly different ideas of what they find attractive. And this doesn't just apply to women who are in the middle of the conventional looks scale, even though people think they are the most likely ones to experience really diverse reactions. Men are attracted to things you wouldn't believe - hirsute women, really freckled women, super hair armpits, big noses, crooked teeth, small breasts, thick waists, round bellies, jiggly thighs, everything.

Just go onto your local Craigslist one day and look at the "casual encounters" section. You'll be surprised at what men like when they think nobody is looking.

Maybe you girls have had the misfortune to be surrounded by a very small and hive-minded group of men. Maybe you never learned to notice the signs that a man is attracted to you, because your negative self-image clouded your mind. Some of the purportedly "ugly" women in this thread are married and claim their husbands only saw "past" the exterior. Not at all! He saw the exterior and liked it. Men are visual creatures, like you admitted. If other men didn't like your exterior and refused to date you, why can't we say that your husbands asked you out because they liked the way you looked - and only afterwards discovered your equally pretty personalities?

Furthermore, if your husbands liked you, I find it hard to believe they are the only men who ever liked you. Like in this world of 7 billion people, you found the one single soul who was attracted to you. The fact is that you can't know what passed through the minds of all the men you've ever met. There is a chance that others were attracted to you, but for a whole host of reasons that had nothing to do with you - their own insecurities, wondering if you were taken, never finding the right moment - didn't ask you out.

Hugs to all of you. Nobody deserves to go through life feeling rejected or thinking themselves ugly.

This is heart-breaking. I know someone who works in the office building right by where this happened. What is really alarming about it is that it happened in Bombay, which is an incredibly liberal city. That poor girl.

The reason these bastards continue to rape is because they know the judicial system is broken and that people are afraid to go to the police. Unless someone is made an example of and people know that they are going to be held accountable under the law, there is no real long-term solution to combat this.

Well, we also desperately need to change social attitudes, and that starts with little boys at home and at school.

And thank you all for pointing out that rape is a world-wide phenomenon.

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and to echo a PP, do please drop the habit of calling those with whom you disagree "retarded." We don't use that word anymore--it's not nice to those of different mental abilities, and it's not nice to the target of your intended epithet.

Apologies for using that word. I let that slip out in a moment of frustration, but that's still no excuse. I know people whose kids have mental health issues so I'm actually usually careful about the words I use. Still, no excuse.

I had no idea those were trolls. If so, I suppose I need new troll armor.

"Indians are sometimes accused of being condescending toward Westerners, and of being excessively preachy in their attitude toward other nations. That accusation is sometimes correct."

Oh dear! Okay, just in case I am cast as the Ultimate Indian Defender, among people who know me in real life I'm actually India's worst and most unforgiving critic. There is so much wrong with India that it would take many threads for me to explain it all. However, the reason I felt I had to jump into this thread because, even though I am India's worst critic and have plenty to say about the country and Indian society that would burn your ears (and maybe I'll do that some time, in the right circumstances), I also do know when Indians don't deserve criticism. =)

Edit: however, I will watch my tone as I realize condescension, even if unintended, is hurtful.

Anonymous wrote:

In response to your question, we were going to Mumbai. Interacting with bankers. Thanks for the links I'll take a look.

Ohhh, I get it. Was this before or after 2008? In 2008, the Chabad House in Mumbai was the site of an anti-semitism attack. Guns and torture were involved. It was a shocking attack because it was the first time in modern history that Indian Jews had ever been targeted by terrorists. Also, the terrorists were Pakistanis, so it wasn't Indians hating on Jews. (And I should mention, even Pakistani terrorists do not represent real Pakistanis). But that must be why he warned you. Because Mumbai's Jews have always co-existed peacefully.

Anonymous wrote:Cindy, everyone's allotted the same number of words at birth, and I regret to inform you that you've used yours up.

But I pay extra every month!

Anonymous wrote:Cindy
When my boss and I went on a work trip to India one of our Indian coworkers asked us if either of us were Jewish. He said he just wanted to warn us of antisemitism. So I don't think it's all roses and kittens.

Interesting. Where in India was this, who were you interacting with? Questions about anti-semitism are usually met with, "There are Jews in India?!" But seriously, they have a history of being accepted and protected. If anti-semitism exists in your experience, then I'm really curious about where this happened and in what context. A Deoband town or something? FYI, there are fringe groups of religious fundamentalists, and any anti-semitism is most likely going to come to from practitioners of another Abrahamic religion, because dharmic religions don't have the religious history with Judaism.

Indian Jews created the Bollywood film industry, and their synagogues have always been protected by local kings. There's a running joke about how Israelis routinely holiday in India in droves before/after fulfilling their military duties. There are also stories about Israelis being boorish when drunk, but they all pretty much come to India because they know they'll have a good time and it's cheap.

For your random reading pleasure, if you feel like it:

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-01-27/news/mn-324_1_jew-town

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/12312#.UhbjfH_5ExI

http://www.forbes.com/2007/08/05/india-jews-antisemitism-oped-cx_gw_0813jews.html

Anonymous wrote:CindyBindy

Can't wait to hear your comments on parenting issues!

I might not get into that till tomorrow because I have to catch up on the work I should have been doing today, but by all means, link me.

Lol, glad someone else has decided to be user-named.

I don't get it, since we're anonymous even with our user-names, and the admin can track all of your IP addresses even if you don't have a user-name, but it is an interesting quirk. I don't think I've ever seen a completely anonymous forum.

Anonymous wrote:Cindy, I think your posts are well thought out, clear and concise. You've provided rational discussion, but you are obviously new to DCUM because rational and well spoken "conversation" or dialogue is not what the great majority of the threads here are about.

People come on here 1) to vent or 2) share a thought or 3) ask a question or 4) stir the pot. It's almost entirely anonymous because anonymity gives the go ahead to speak the most darkest and ugliest thoughts.

They've already got their minds made up, it's like trying to reason with a hyena. Some threads like this one are draining and can make you lose faith in the human race.

Please do stick around though, it can sometimes be fun and lighthearted here too.

Thanks for explaining and for the support. I think I will probably stick around, if only to be the lone logged-in person here.

Anonymous wrote:

I grew up in a diverse middle class neighborhood and I didn't really see blacks in this area having a disadvantage and many excelled at a high level. That being said, this is a separate issue to what I'm speaking of... Those with low SES, mid SES and high in a high number of instances expressed this behavior that certain things were off limits to discuss and verbalized insecurities that didn't reflect often the situation that they were in....

Just because you didn't see the disadvantages, doesn't mean they didn't exist. In fact, I'd wager it wasn't even on your radar to notice. Would love to hear some examples of displays of insecurities.

I saw your post earlier but didn't respond to it because I was dealing with everyone else. I'm also not sure why you're asking me talk about African-American insecurities. If I recall correctly, it was you who claimed that the black community was insecure and sensitive. I, along with another poster, told you it was wrong to think that way. Or maybe it wasn't you who wrote that. You're all anonymous here except me, so I think I can be forgiven for not knowing who I am talking to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are so clueless you don't realize how insulting your comments -spoken as gospel- about AA are. You Cindy are the troll that needs to go back under your bridge.

You must be white. Many of her points were spot on.

No and they were not.

FYI I'm the AA that's lived in Brazil and India. In addition to studying AA history at a US HBCU.

Well, I'm sorry that you were so butt-hurt. I am not sure why you seem to think I'm attacking blacks and Brazilians and you personally, but I am definitely getting that vibe from you.

Edit: Actually, if you're the poster who went hysterical and wrote, " Fix YOUR house first." in response to me defending African-American culture from negative stereotypes about how insecure they are, then I am not going to debate with you further.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are so clueless you don't realize how insulting your comments -spoken as gospel- about AA are. You Cindy are the troll that needs to go back under your bridge.

You must be white. Many of her points were spot on.

Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:

Your mode of communication is to repeatedly attack what others say and to dismiss the validity of their viewpoint. Frankly, that causes others to be less than receptive to the valid points you do make.

Well, I've only dismissed others when what they were saying wasn't the point of my argument. I did take what other people wrote seriously, which is why I took the trouble to back up my own claims with examples each time. My posts - at least in pages 4-6, for the most part, when I had more energy and thought the posters on this board were not trolls - were not bent on just blindly attacking other posters. I'm the one getting blindly attacked here so let's not get it twisted please.

Anonymous wrote:CindyB, what should be obvious is that you are not an effective communicator. When what you say is being allegedly repeatedly misunderstood not only as it pertains to Indian culture but also Brazilian and African-American culture, rather than attack the comprehension ability of everyone else, perhaps it calls for a degree of introspection on your part.

To put it succinctly, the points you are trying to get across are not coming through and it does not help when you attack the lack of comprehension of others who read your posts.

I think I explained myself several times, and in different ways. In fact, a couple pages ago I apologized if I was misunderstood and re-explained everything in context. If it was still unclear, then I don't know what to say. I read over my posts again. I think they were pretty clear. I would try explaining it again, but to be honest this is exhausting, is distracting me from my real work, and I don't see anyone bothering to listen - instead, it's just troll after racist after troll.

Anonymous wrote:

I've been going back and forth and disagreed with you in several areas but let me help you by saying stop feeding this troll.

Haha, all of you guys are showing up as anonymous, so I can't distinguish one poster from another! =)