Help-wondering what to do about spirited pre-K child

[Anonymous]

My DS has been in the same daycare program for over 3 years and will go to kindergarten in the fall. That being said, his current behavior has gotten significantly worse over the last 6-8 months. While he did transition to a new room in August of 2007, he went with a bunch of friends and has no problem getting along with most of the kids. The problem is if he wants his way and that is not what everyone is doing, then he is disruptive and won't follow the rules. We do not tolerate this behavior at home and administer swift consequences (counting and time-outs). We have contemplated moving him to a new daycare environment with the hope that a change in environment would do him well esp. since the new place would administer time-outs and provide more significant consequences to his disruptive behavior. However, we have had numerous people tell us that making a change now will be very detrimental to him. We're afraid that moving him will traumatize him for years to come. He turns 5 next month. We're planning on getting him evaluated for ADHD, which may be his problem. We also wonder if hiring a behaviorist to follow him and observe his behavior would be useful to provide us with input on what sets him off. Has anyone used a behaviorist?

[Anonymous]

sounds like a typical prek kid to me! i don't think therapy is necessary from what you are saying! this area is so uptight (not you) about kids behaving and rules. ugh. don't let it affect you. kids are kids, just like people are people. it is normal. he'll probably be a ceo of a huge corporation someday. we need all different people in society. don't let anybody talk you into "breaking" your kid. maybe he needs more one on one time with mom or dad or both. make some special time for him and change up the daily routine to include more fun family time. we did this recently and found a HUGE difference in our child. the tantrums have completely subsided. it is amazing to me. good luck.

[Anonymous]

OP Here-Thanks for the support, but I think we're at a point where something has to change, he'll be in kindergarten soon and can't be running around the room climbing on top of bookcases when he's supposed to be in his seat. There may be more than one issue going on, but not sure, we're meeting with his teachers tomorrow. I always tell peple that he is strong willed-which will serve him bettter in the future, just not now as a 4 year old.

[Anonymous]

I can empathize! Our daughter is also very spirited in almost every sense of the word. She generally behaves well in school, but our challenge has actually been more with play-dates and at home. We are working hard to identify and address her triggers ahead of time. Some have been long playdates, being too hungry or tired, certain toys, competition. I know these are triggers for many kids, but with certain kids (like my daughter and maybe your son) they elicit a much stronger reaction. We have also been talking with our daughter a lot being a problem solver. It goes something like this:

Us: We notice that whenever Friend X comes over, you tend to have a hard time sharing certain toys. What do you think you could do about it.
Her: I know! I hate it. She always wants to play with toy X. I hate it. I don’t want her to ever come over. I don’t want to ever have play-dates. I just want to stay at home with you and daddy. I don’t want friends.
Us: Let’s talk about that. Do you really not want friends, or is it that when your friends are here, you sometimes get upset when they play with toy X.
Her: I hate it when they play with toy X. They are rough with it. They might break it. And then I wouldn’t have it anymore.
Us: Well, what could we do to solve that problem? Any ideas?
Her: I know!! Can we put toy X in your room when friend X is here and no one can play with it.
Us: Great solution! You are such a great problem solver

Now… let me add a caveat, it isn’t always that great. But, it does work sometimes and that is better than never.

So my point is do you have any idea of the things that can set your son off while at school? Can you work with the school to identify them? And then, once you do that, can you work with him and his teachers to find solutions to avoid these triggers or address them. For example, does he get bored easily? Is there anyway that he could do a special activity when he is headed in that direction? I think it would be best to try to work with the school on it, before switching him out.

Our daughter goes to a Montessori school and sometimes she gets bored with the specific activities her classroom has. As they rotate from room to room, we again asked her to solve that problem with her teacher and us. We all came up with the solution that when she is bored, she can tell her teacher and they will allow her to work on different activities in the other classroom. This way she is not disruptive and she continues to feel challenged and enjoy learning. And, coming up with the solution together with her made her feel very empowered.

Spirited children are a real handful and sometimes I daydream about those relatively mellow kids that many of my friends seem to have. But… I read a great metaphor about them that helps keep me going sometimes:

Wildflowers will grow beautifully most places you put them. Roses, on the other hand, need careful attention, pruning, the right amount of sunlight, etc. If you grab a rose, you may get pricked with its thorns. But, if you treat it carefully it will bloom beautifully and provide a wonderful scent and sight for you to enjoy. This came from the book "Raising Your Spirited Child" which I definitely recommend it you haven't read it already.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

11:57 Poster here - I just ran across this article. It might be interesting for you:

http://www.parenthood.com/article-topics/article-topics.php?Article_ID=3882

[Anonymous]

I have an almost 4yo boy with similar behavior, and so sympathize completely with your dilemma.

In terms of your specific questions, we also wondered about a move for a variety of reasons. In the end, I don't think switching schools at 4 is going to impair any child's long-term development, etc., but you should consider whether it is really worth the upheaval in all your lives for only a year. It may not be enough time to settle in and get everyone familiar before you need to go through the whole process all over again. In our case, my son handles transitions horribly - it took him ages to adjust to daycare after a year at home and each classroom move tends to generate some theatrics - so at the moment I'm leaning toward keeping him where he is until the start of kindergarten in 9/09.

One thing you might consider is sitting down with his current teachers and administrators and trying to work out a more effective program of managing his behavior. Our son went through a bad patch at school this winter, and we did have a big chat with the school director. The meeting was helpful on a couple of scores - helped identify some of the reasons why he might be more difficult these days, and also was useful in communicating our concerns as well as the director's overall positive assessment of his behavior. If your son's behavior has degenerated significantly, there may be some precipating event or condition at the school that you just aren't aware of. In our case I think it was helpful to have a scheduled discussion, rather than the daily back-and-forth, because it helped communicate on both sides how serious we were about the problems.

Of course if your situation feels totally dysfunctional, that changes the equation. Perhaps there's just no fixing whatever dynamic rules at the current school - maybe teachers that are too overwhelmed or just aren't the right fit for your child or his own feelings about the place that lead him to misbehave.

One final point, the WashPost health section today reviews two new books about managing 'spirited' children - I've heard other good reviews of these as well. I tend to be a bit skeptical of the whole "positive parenting" model, which never seemed all that applicable to my very strong-willed and active little boy, but I do see now that he's older how useful it can be to highlight the good behavior rather than focus on the bad. The books in the Post may be worth a look. Good luck!!

[Anonymous]

just a different suggestion- what is his diet like? some kids that get labelled adhd or disruptive is often due in part to the foods they eat - red dye 40 is a big one. and any processed foods have tons of chemicals/pre servatives etc that just don't help. if it could be a factor, you might want to try a week or two experiment and go back to the basics of whole grains/foods, fresh fruits/veggies, water, milk etc and see if you notice any difference. I recently cut out Flintstones vitamins from my ds's diet (it was just a half!) since they are loaded with dye (red 40) and he really acting out since starting them. What a huge difference in his behavior!

[Anonymous]

OP here again-since our son would only need to attend another facility for 4 months (before starting kindergarten), we are uncertain whether such a change would be beneficial or detrimental. We already take him to a palygroup run by a clinical psychologist, who although helpful, does not really give us much assistance in decision making, rather she "guides" us to make our own decision. We don't want to scar him with the change esp. since transitions are hard for him, but we're about at the end of our rope.

[Anonymous]

How receptive has the current school been to working with you and your son on this? I think that might be the key.

[Anonymous]

OP here again-our current school is working with us to try and modify his behavior, however, I'm afraid that one of his teachers doesn't like him too much (because he's frustrated with his behavior, I suspect). Don't know if my DS is picking up on that or not, I think the teachers really wants to "make it right" with him, meaning DS needs to conform to what the others are doing. We're trying veyr hard to develop some strategies with the school and I'm also looking into hriign someone to come into school and observe him who can provide us some insight into what he's doing which is inappropriate and provide us with tools to help him control himself so that he can stick it out here until he goes to kindergarten in 8/08. We're only talking about a matter of months now. . .but I'm about at the end of my rope. I hate to say this, but there are times when I just don't like DS (I know it is his behavior i don't like, but still, makes it tough to take).

[Anonymous]

11:57 poster again. OP, given what you have said, I think that bringing in a third party to observe your son (and the teachers) and provide some concrete suggestions on what can be done, tools, etc. is a great idea. Unfortunately, I don't have specific suggestions, but I can tell you that we worked with a wonderful child psychologist in Bethesda (Anita Iverson) who might be helpful, or have ideas for you.

[Anonymous]

OP here again-thanks for the recs. We've got our son scheduled for an ADD/ADHD eval (on his 5th b-day no less), but this was the soonest I could schedule. I've got a name from a friend for a person they used to "shadow" their child at his pre-school and are working on phasing her out of his routine (so perhaps things have worked with herhelp). Hopefully these suggestions will be helpful, of course, I'll need to check with teh scool before arranging for someone to come observe him.