Possible fcps move this school year, have some questions

[Yoyo]

Might be moving to FCPS with a child entering grade 2, and I’m wondering if they will likely get access to tag services/aap going forward or if this is going to be a no go in fcps.
Kiddo whiffed on the NNAT with a 115 this summer (unprepped, but still). We have recent WISC data, but I’m not sure if we should make it available to the school, since some scores were decent and others more average.
FSIQ 126

Would sharing this make it more or less likely that kiddo would receive services? Or would receiving services be out of the question in fcps?

Obviously all parents think their kids are amazing, but I’m kinda surprised scores weren’t higher. Spouse and I were both in gifted programs and tested with high iqs as kids, and we recognize similar qualities in our kid, which is why we tested. but scores don’t show this. I truly believe kiddo needs tag/enrichment to thrive, but would we be better to keep the above info private and just see if teachers ID them as they get older or something? Basically, will fsiq of 126 on record limit their opportunities? Tia

[Anonymous]

Regression to the mean. The child of two smart parents is likely to be dumber than they are.

But IQ is not stable for younger kids, so it's hard to know where he'll wind up.

Anyway, to the meat of your question:

1. There's very little to nothing offered in second grade for even absurdly bright kids. What matters is admission to AAP in third grade.

2. FCPS is deemphasizing test scores for AAP admissions to cut back on the number of Asi... uh, to increase equity. Teacher recommendations were weighted heavily beforehand and now will be weighted even more heavily.

3. My child scored somewhere around 126 on the in-school CoGAT test FCPS gives everyone in 2nd grade. He got in, and didn't have trouble with the academic material, which was mostly sub-par. FCPS AAP is probably not equivalent to the GT programs you went to when you were a kid. You will still be stuck supplementing.

[Anonymous]

Since your child is entering 2nd, you don't need to worry yet. They'll give your child the CogAT this fall. The teacher will also rate your child on "gifted behaviors." Getting into AAP is kind of a crapshoot, but if your child has decent CogAT scores (like 124+), is highly rated by his teacher, and produces good work samples in school, generally speaking, he should get in.

I would not use the WISC at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Since your child is entering 2nd, you don't need to worry yet. They'll give your child the CogAT this fall. The teacher will also rate your child on "gifted behaviors." Getting into AAP is kind of a crapshoot, but if your child has decent CogAT scores (like 124+), is highly rated by his teacher, and produces good work samples in school, generally speaking, he should get in.

I would not use the WISC at this point.

See if your kid gets higher on the CogAT. Historically 132 on the CogAT is what puts you in pool, though parents can submit an application with a lower score. Like PP says, if your kid had a score on the CogAT in the 120s PLUS strong GBRS scores and school work they have a reasonable shot. If you don't get in through that process, you could always retake the WISC (scorings just need to be 12+ months apart) at GMU if you don't think the initial test accurately reflects your child's abilities, and submit that on the appeal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Regression to the mean. The child of two smart parents is likely to be dumber than they are.

But IQ is not stable for younger kids, so it's hard to know where he'll wind up.

Anyway, to the meat of your question:

1. There's very little to nothing offered in second grade for even absurdly bright kids. What matters is admission to AAP in third grade.

2. FCPS is deemphasizing test scores for AAP admissions to cut back on the number of Asi... uh, to increase equity. Teacher recommendations were weighted heavily beforehand and now will be weighted even more heavily.

3. My child scored somewhere around 126 on the in-school CoGAT test FCPS gives everyone in 2nd grade. He got in, and didn't have trouble with the academic material, which was mostly sub-par. FCPS AAP is probably not equivalent to the GT programs you went to when you were a kid. You will still be stuck supplementing.

There's a lot of cynicism in this post. Not much else.

[Anonymous]

As a second grader, your child will be eligible for Level 1 and 2 services. Level 1 is available to all students, and Level 2 does not require any testing. Levels 3 & 4 are only available to Grades 3 or higher. Testing is required for Level 4.

[Yoyo]

Is the cogat given in second or third grade? Or does it depend on what district you are in? Sorry, totally new to all the testing stuff.

[Anonymous]

Yoyo wrote:Is the cogat given in second or third grade? Or does it depend on what district you are in? Sorry, totally new to all the testing stuff.

It's given to all FCPS second graders each year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regression to the mean. The child of two smart parents is likely to be dumber than they are.

But IQ is not stable for younger kids, so it's hard to know where he'll wind up.

Anyway, to the meat of your question:

1. There's very little to nothing offered in second grade for even absurdly bright kids. What matters is admission to AAP in third grade.

2. FCPS is deemphasizing test scores for AAP admissions to cut back on the number of Asi... uh, to increase equity. Teacher recommendations were weighted heavily beforehand and now will be weighted even more heavily.

3. My child scored somewhere around 126 on the in-school CoGAT test FCPS gives everyone in 2nd grade. He got in, and didn't have trouble with the academic material, which was mostly sub-par. FCPS AAP is probably not equivalent to the GT programs you went to when you were a kid. You will still be stuck supplementing.

There's a lot of cynicism in this post. Not much else.

+1
Note, if the WISC is recent, scores stabilize around 6-7 years old typically.


IME FCPS AAP ==while imperfect and variable across centers---is heads and shoulders above the GT programs I went to as an ES kid in public schools that were weekly "pull-out" enrichment programs where you would do 1 hr a week of math competition like problems or brain-teasers (and that were typical throughout the US since GT began in the late 1950s). My kids whose cogats were in the upper 130s-lower 140s have been able to get meaningful math acceleration in FCPS and do a lot of writing workshops, Ceaser's English, etc. and great extra-curricular programs such as Odyssey of the Mind, Chess club, MathCounts in 6th grade (well at least pre-pandemic ). All 3 kids were much happier and more challenged in AAP than beforehand. We didn't supplement (except private music lessons and summer camp programs that were more about them pursuing outside interests). My kids are fairly self-directed and read a lot on their own though so your experience may differ.

[Anonymous]

^^^ hmm, that doesn’t sound much like the GT program I experienced. I think we had pullout for 2 half days + 1 full day/week, and it saved my sanity in elementary school. We did do logic puzzles, but I still fondly remember other projects, like putting Jack from ‘Jack and the Beanstalk’ on trial as a live action role play during a unit on law. (Jury deliberations were hilarious.) I want those kinds of deep dive project learning experiences for my kid. GT wasn’t so much acceleration in usual subjects where I went (that was handled with individualized instruction/self paced learning in class), but more creative and project based learning on other topics. We are new to VA, so not sure if this is comparable to what is available here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regression to the mean. The child of two smart parents is likely to be dumber than they are.

But IQ is not stable for younger kids, so it's hard to know where he'll wind up.

Anyway, to the meat of your question:

1. There's very little to nothing offered in second grade for even absurdly bright kids. What matters is admission to AAP in third grade.

2. FCPS is deemphasizing test scores for AAP admissions to cut back on the number of Asi... uh, to increase equity. Teacher recommendations were weighted heavily beforehand and now will be weighted even more heavily.

3. My child scored somewhere around 126 on the in-school CoGAT test FCPS gives everyone in 2nd grade. He got in, and didn't have trouble with the academic material, which was mostly sub-par. FCPS AAP is probably not equivalent to the GT programs you went to when you were a kid. You will still be stuck supplementing.

There's a lot of cynicism in this post. Not much else.

And a lot of BS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^ hmm, that doesn’t sound much like the GT program I experienced. I think we had pullout for 2 half days + 1 full day/week, and it saved my sanity in elementary school. We did do logic puzzles, but I still fondly remember other projects, like putting Jack from ‘Jack and the Beanstalk’ on trial as a live action role play during a unit on law. (Jury deliberations were hilarious.) I want those kinds of deep dive project learning experiences for my kid. GT wasn’t so much acceleration in usual subjects where I went (that was handled with individualized instruction/self paced learning in class), but more creative and project based learning on other topics. We are new to VA, so not sure if this is comparable to what is available here?

You had a more intensive than average GT program. I would say FCPS also has a better than average GT program (or technically advanced academic). At the highest level, identified kids go full-time to a center school with other identified kids from other ES for 5 days/wk instruction. Math is accelerated so that kids complete typically complete the equivalent of 7th grade honors math by 6th grade, though further acceleration is possible. The other subjects focus on greater depth, criticality and creativity rather than acceleration. The actual practice varies by center and teacher--but we have found them to do interesting projects--like for social studies they created artifacts that reflected imaginary cultures they invented based on their earlier study of other ancient cultures. All the artifacts were buried and then other groups dug them up and had to interpret them from clues they contained about their religion, art, historical events etc. and then identify which of the cultures they were from (with a rationale why). There's a LOT more writing and analysis is the AAP program than the base FCPS program in our experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regression to the mean. The child of two smart parents is likely to be dumber than they are.

But IQ is not stable for younger kids, so it's hard to know where he'll wind up.

Anyway, to the meat of your question:

1. There's very little to nothing offered in second grade for even absurdly bright kids. What matters is admission to AAP in third grade.

2. FCPS is deemphasizing test scores for AAP admissions to cut back on the number of Asi... uh, to increase equity. Teacher recommendations were weighted heavily beforehand and now will be weighted even more heavily.

3. My child scored somewhere around 126 on the in-school CoGAT test FCPS gives everyone in 2nd grade. He got in, and didn't have trouble with the academic material, which was mostly sub-par. FCPS AAP is probably not equivalent to the GT programs you went to when you were a kid. You will still be stuck supplementing.

There's a lot of cynicism in this post. Not much else.

+1
Note, if the WISC is recent, scores stabilize around 6-7 years old typically.


IME FCPS AAP ==while imperfect and variable across centers---is heads and shoulders above the GT programs I went to as an ES kid in public schools that were weekly "pull-out" enrichment programs where you would do 1 hr a week of math competition like problems or brain-teasers (and that were typical throughout the US since GT began in the late 1950s). My kids whose cogats were in the upper 130s-lower 140s have been able to get meaningful math acceleration in FCPS and do a lot of writing workshops, Ceaser's English, etc. and great extra-curricular programs such as Odyssey of the Mind, Chess club, MathCounts in 6th grade (well at least pre-pandemic ). All 3 kids were much happier and more challenged in AAP than beforehand. We didn't supplement (except private music lessons and summer camp programs that were more about them pursuing outside interests). My kids are fairly self-directed and read a lot on their own though so your experience may differ.

DS deferred AAP placement in favor of his language immersion program. The Level III pull outs do some of the specialized programs that people discuss. It is not a daily thing, because they meet once a week. As for the extra curricular activities, DS’s school has all the ones you listed and does not have Local Level IV. Plenty of schools have those extra curricular activities, they are not limited to AAP students. Many of them are arranged by the PTAs. There could well be kids at schools that don’t have the programs, but that is a school by school thing and has nothing to do with AAP or not.

Level III and Advanced Math have worked well for my kid. He enjoys Chess Club, coding, robotics, and the like. He did not want to participate in Odyssey of the Mind and the math Olympics is only available for kids in 4th and higher, he wants to give that a go this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regression to the mean. The child of two smart parents is likely to be dumber than they are.

But IQ is not stable for younger kids, so it's hard to know where he'll wind up.

Anyway, to the meat of your question:

1. There's very little to nothing offered in second grade for even absurdly bright kids. What matters is admission to AAP in third grade.

2. FCPS is deemphasizing test scores for AAP admissions to cut back on the number of Asi... uh, to increase equity. Teacher recommendations were weighted heavily beforehand and now will be weighted even more heavily.

3. My child scored somewhere around 126 on the in-school CoGAT test FCPS gives everyone in 2nd grade. He got in, and didn't have trouble with the academic material, which was mostly sub-par. FCPS AAP is probably not equivalent to the GT programs you went to when you were a kid. You will still be stuck supplementing.

There's a lot of cynicism in this post. Not much else.

+1
Note, if the WISC is recent, scores stabilize around 6-7 years old typically.


IME FCPS AAP ==while imperfect and variable across centers---is heads and shoulders above the GT programs I went to as an ES kid in public schools that were weekly "pull-out" enrichment programs where you would do 1 hr a week of math competition like problems or brain-teasers (and that were typical throughout the US since GT began in the late 1950s). My kids whose cogats were in the upper 130s-lower 140s have been able to get meaningful math acceleration in FCPS and do a lot of writing workshops, Ceaser's English, etc. and great extra-curricular programs such as Odyssey of the Mind, Chess club, MathCounts in 6th grade (well at least pre-pandemic ). All 3 kids were much happier and more challenged in AAP than beforehand. We didn't supplement (except private music lessons and summer camp programs that were more about them pursuing outside interests). My kids are fairly self-directed and read a lot on their own though so your experience may differ.

DS deferred AAP placement in favor of his language immersion program. The Level III pull outs do some of the specialized programs that people discuss. It is not a daily thing, because they meet once a week. As for the extra curricular activities, DS’s school has all the ones you listed and does not have Local Level IV. Plenty of schools have those extra curricular activities, they are not limited to AAP students. Many of them are arranged by the PTAs. There could well be kids at schools that don’t have the programs, but that is a school by school thing and has nothing to do with AAP or not.

Level III and Advanced Math have worked well for my kid. He enjoys Chess Club, coding, robotics, and the like. He did not want to participate in Odyssey of the Mind and the math Olympics is only available for kids in 4th and higher, he wants to give that a go this year.

Great that you have access to the ECs your DS enjoys. As a language immersion school you might be larger than the typical ES, and have more parents interested in their children pursuing ECs. Many ES have these EC's "on the books" but there aren't strong cohorts of kids participating in them so they sort of wither or limp along. Or primarily have sports and scouts and not as much the math/science ones.

[Anonymous]

Great that you have access to the ECs your DS enjoys. As a language immersion school you might be larger than the typical ES, and have more parents interested in their children pursuing ECs. Many ES have these EC's "on the books" but there aren't strong cohorts of kids participating in them so they sort of wither or limp along. Or primarily have sports and scouts and not as much the math/science ones.

We are not a large school and still have an active PTA. Those ECs, even for AAP Centers, are run by and organized by the Parents. Any school can have them, it is not an AAP thing. I suspect anyone so invested in AAP and cohorts are parents who bought/rent in schools that have higher FARMs rates because there are plenty of schools where these ECs are common and the parents aren't worried about cohorts.

The point is many of the ECs the PP was raving about are available in many schools that are not Centers and the kids benefit from those activities.

The vast majority of kids in AAP are not gifted, they are above average and advanced, probably because they have involved parents. This includes my kid. He is smart but he is not gifted. He needs to be challenged, which is why we choose language immersion. I really doubt that a High School Teacher would be able to pick the kid who was selected for AAP and the kid who wasn’t in their classroom. The OPs kid will do well at most schools because the OP is involved in their education not because the kid ends up in AAP.