WPSIII

[Anonymous]

I am SO clueless about the WPSIII and what it really means. Our 4 1/2 year old child got a 99.9% on both verbal and performance and I thought that was amazing - however, now I feel like everything I read on here says their child got a 99%. How common is this in this area? Does it really mean anything for future school performance? How reliable is this test? I'm wondering if our child may have just had a good day, and had our child been tested on a different day the result may have been very different? Sorry to sound so clueless, it's just not something I've focused on and I don't have any friends who are in the school testing business, and it's not something I want to talk to friends about.
Thanks for any info!

[Anonymous]

There's a big difference between 99% and 99.9%, statistically. My two children had 99% and 99.9%, and the one with the higher percentile has an IQ score that's 17 points higher.

Of course, I think they are both brilliant! But there is a big difference -- at least one standard deviation.

[Anonymous]

One standard deviation is actually 15 points and the difference between 99 and 99.9 is not a whole standard deviation. It is not much different. Ofcourse both are extremely great scores!!

[Anonymous]

There is a big difference statistically, if the measurement is accurate to that level of precision. However, the WPPSI was not designed to measure differences at the high end, and pegging one kid as 99.9%, as opposed to 99%, is not reliably accurate based on WPPSI alone. Other tests would be required to determine if there truly was a difference between two such kids.

[Anonymous]

I'm 11:39 -- aren't we saying the same thing? If a standard deviation is 15 points and the IQ score is 17 points higher, isn't that a standard deviation higher? Our neuropsychologist who did our testing explained it to me that way.

What I'm saying is that, for my two kids at least, the different between 99% and 99.9% percentiles turned out to be 17 IQ points, or one standard deviation.

So while 99% is extremely smart, 99.9% is a whole different animal. Often the different between "highly gifted" and "profoundly gifted" in GT parlance. So I do think a kid with a WPSIII percentile of 99.9% is different from the 99% kids.

And this is borne out by their intellectual abilities in everyday life. My 99% kid is very smart. My 99.9% kid runs circles around everyone. adults and peers (this is not always easy for anyone concerned, either).

[Anonymous]

11:39 again -- now that I think about it, the test my kids took was the WISC but I still think the significance of the percentile difference applies.

I also understand that these tests top out at a certain level, as stated above, but that this has the effect of depressing a 99.9% score -- so if anything, the difference could be greater, not less.

Not that it really matters in many ways, since of course a kid in the 99% percentile is very smart! But I really do think kids at the upper end are SO different in their learning needs that it's important for parents to know and take into account when doing educational planning. If your kid's IQ is in the 99.9% percentile, they will likely have few intellectual peers in a typical school. This can lead to all sorts of difficulties, both socially and in finding appropriate instruction.

[SAM2]

NP here. I think 11:39/12:01 is correct that (assuming the test scores are accurate indicators) there is a pretty big difference between 99.0% and 99.9%. If you think of how a bell curve is shaped, you can see that as you get to the far-right of the curve (higher percentiles), you get significantly fewer kids and bigger score spreads. Put another way, to move a kid 4% from 95% to 99% requires a score 10 points higher on the test (125 vs. 135), but scoring another 12 points higher than that (135 vs. 147) only moves the percentile up 0.9% from 99% to 99.9%. Here is a link to an IQ rarity chart with those numbers: http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/IQtable.aspx .

The big question is whether the WPPSI is giving accurate scores at those high levels. I think there's a lot of evidence suggesting the accuracy level goes down significantly at those high percentiles. Here's one write-up: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm . Nevertheless, diminished accuracy is a lot different than zero accuracy, so even at those extreme scores, the test has some reasonable bearing on the reality of the situation.

Bottom-line: If your child scored 99.9% on the FSIQ (score of 145+), then she's likely extremely smart, but you've probably already realized that from just being around her.

If you're interested in learning more about the topic, here is an academic who seems to be one of the leaders of the field in this sort of research, and he helpfully posts links to many of his writings at his website: http://faculty.education.uiowa.edu/dlohman/ . It's really fascinating stuff.

[Anonymous]

I think the focus on these scores at this age is really silly, whether it be 99 or 99.9%. In my view, some part of his score is very much attributable to the kids' exposure to educated parents, toys, etc. and a nurturing learning environment. If he or her scores continue in this range in several years, that may be different.

[Anonymous]

To 13:17: In one way you are right -- if you get a 99% score on an IQ test, you're well suited to do almost anything in life that you want to do and be successful. You are a very, very smart person.

However, if you have a kid with an IQ of 145+, you know that your child has special needs and challenges that a very smart kid with an IQ of 125 - 130 just doesn't have as acutely. It's not to be snotty or say they need something better, but they certainly do need something different. I would guess that some schools specifically DON'T want kids with this kind of profile, because they might not be equipped to handle them.

If you talk to parents with kids in the 99.9%, they will not tell you that their child's educational journey has been easy, or that they sail through school happily without special attention or intervention. It's valuable for parents to know this early, so they can plan appropriately. In that sense, it's not silly at all.

[Anonymous]

I am so interested to read the above email b/c my child scored 99.9 (IQ 149) and I never even thought about the issue of needing any kind of special intervention or attention - just seems like a happy normal child - only 5 years old so maybe I'm missing something!

[Anonymous]

To 13:39: My son was also a very happy and well-adjusted child in preschool and kindergarten. In my experience the issues really begin to arise in second grade. Third grade was really difficult and then in 4th grade, DC went to one of the MCPS Highly Gifted Centers and things are much better.

I think as they get older, the level of work just doesn't rise enough to satisfy a kid who's craving complexity and depth. Plus, there gets to be more of a disconnect between a kid's "intellectual age" and his/her emotional readiness, which can cause unhappiness and social difficulties. It can be hard for them to find friends that have common interests -- something that, for my son, began to be acute in third grade. Super-high IQ children are often more sensitive, have a highly developed sense of justice and fairness that is easily bruised, etc.

It also depends where your child's strengths are. Schools are generally more able to accelerate a kid whose math skills are well above grade level. A kid who's verbally advanced is trickier to accelerate.

An IQ of 149 is VERY high. Your child will probably be the smartest person in his school, or one of only two or three.

So just food for thought at this point, but something to keep an eye on!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am SO clueless about the WPSIII and what it really means. Our 4 1/2 year old child got a 99.9% on both verbal and performance and I thought that was amazing - however, now I feel like everything I read on here says their child got a 99%. How common is this in this area? Does it really mean anything for future school performance? How reliable is this test? I'm wondering if our child may have just had a good day, and had our child been tested on a different day the result may have been very different? Sorry to sound so clueless, it's just not something I've focused on and I don't have any friends who are in the school testing business, and it's not something I want to talk to friends about.
Thanks for any info!

Great score, but no guarantee on admission to one's first choice school.

[Anonymous]

So, then 99.9 wppsi actually hurt a childs chance of getting into schools? We already have no priority, diversity and boring jobs working against us, do I need to add this to the list too?

[Anonymous]

This will also create some controversy here, but you have to consider that many of the schools that are otherwise very desirable won't be the best place for a kid with that kind of IQ, necessarily.

If you can get your child into an MCPS highly gifted center and subsequent magnets, he will have more of a cohort and more challenge, too. (I know a lot of people will be infuriated by that remark but it's been verified by my own experience and the advice of a number of knowledgeable teachers and ed consultants.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, then 99.9 wppsi actually hurt a childs chance of getting into schools? We already have no priority, diversity and boring jobs working against us, do I need to add this to the list too?

Doesn't necessarily hurt, but your DC is not the only DC applying with those scores. Just don't assume that a 99.9 fullscale WPPSI = automatic admission to any top independent in the area.