Too sterile environments

Anonymous
Does anyone worry about our creating too sterile of environments due to COVID and any potential repercussions of that? For example, yes parents hate their kids get sick when starting off childcare arrangements outside the home however, getting sick actually helps build little ones immune systems so they are better equipped to fight off illnesses in the future. It is a balance for sure, ensuring children aren't too young for a fever to be dangerous and keeping at bay the really dangerous illnesses but kids need to eat dirt and share spit and eat off the floor. Maybe every once in a while they get sick but ultimately this leads to their being healthier in the future. I keep hearing these comments of how great it is that someone's child hasn't gotten sick all year due to distancing or being at home or masks or whatever you want to cite as the reasoning but is this really and truly a good thing?

Side note but related, I would be interested in a study done on for example the slums of India or places in Africa were there is overcrowding and just aren't the resources for the level of hygiene we are accustomed to here in the US. I say this because there have been relatively few cases in India and Africa. Sure you can cite the lockdowns India had but lockdowns or not, that really does nothing to stop the spread in overcrowded slums. I wonder if it is precisely due to there not being an overuse of antibacterial everything and Lysol, etc that has allowed some sort of natural immunity to new virus', at least immunity to low levels of serious illness.

Yet another side note but also related, interesting article from the UK citing leukemia causes, https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/dec/30/children-leukaemia-mel-greaves-microbes-protection-against-disease, here is a cut and paste of the really interesting part and what makes it related to my points above:

“For an immune system to work properly, it needs to be confronted by an infection in the first year of life,” says Greaves. Without that confrontation with an infection, the system is left unprimed and will not work properly.” And this issue is becoming an increasingly worrying problem. Parents, for laudable reasons, are raising children in homes where antiseptic wipes, antibacterial soaps and disinfected floorwashes are the norm. Dirt is banished for the good of the household. In addition, there is less breast feeding of infants and a tendency for them to have fewer social contacts with other children. Both trends reduce babies’ contact with germs. This has benefits – but also comes with side effects. Because young children are not being exposed to bugs and infections as they once were, their immune systems are not being properly primed. “When such a baby is eventually exposed to common infections, his or her unprimed immune system reacts in a grossly abnormal way,” says Greaves. “It over-reacts and triggers chronic inflammation. As this inflammation progresses, chemicals called cytokines are released into the blood and these can trigger a second mutation that results in leukaemia in children carrying the first mutation"
Anonymous
No because you live most your life in your own house. Your behaviors there are going to have a much bigger impact vs grocery carts getting cleaned after each use and someone following kids around on the playground and spraying the swings down between kids.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:No because you live most your life in your own house. Your behaviors there are going to have a much bigger impact vs grocery carts getting cleaned after each use and someone following kids around on the playground and spraying the swings down between kids.


That isn't true, I spend most of my day at work and my child at school. Both of those places are were we are exposed to germs outside of our household. I personally think this is a good thing. I feel others will have a rude awakening when they emerge from lockdowns and not letting their children play with anyone for over a year. They and their children will be getting everything under the sun.
Anonymous
People on these threads talk about lysoling everything, wiping down groceries, mail, trying to ensure they don't interact with anyone from the outside world. Certainly will be an issue.
Anonymous
The comment about India is sort of interesting. I really just assumed that cases in India simply weren't getting reported, and that it was probably just as bad there as anywhere else. But I just talked to a couple past coworkers that now live in India, and they say that's not entirely true. Sure, not everything is getting reported, but it seems like it really hasn't been as bad there. And I suspect some of that is because they've probably been exposed to more germs than Americans.
Anonymous
I had a 4th baby born during the pandemic. We’ve limited his exposure, but we have such a big family, I’m hoping he has had enough exposure to other people to get their germs, but he has not actually gotten sick from anything. I hope his exposure to enough other people in his household is enough 🤞🏻
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:The comment about India is sort of interesting. I really just assumed that cases in India simply weren't getting reported, and that it was probably just as bad there as anywhere else. But I just talked to a couple past coworkers that now live in India, and they say that's not entirely true. Sure, not everything is getting reported, but it seems like it really hasn't been as bad there. And I suspect some of that is because they've probably been exposed to more germs than Americans.


They also vaccinate for TB in India and the BCG vaccine (for TB) is correlated to reduced COVID infection risk.

https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/study-tb-vaccine-linked-to-lower-risk-of-contracting-covid-19/
Anonymous
Well, I feel better about my sub-par cleaning.
Anonymous
Yes I worry a little about my two year old who has never had a fever. Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely happy she is healthy but also wondering if the lack of exposure to people and germs is that good for her.
Anonymous
Slums in third world countries are really a measurable metric. You live in an India slum, you aren’t running to CVS for a Covid test because you have a sniffle. People get sick and die all the time, but the difference is they don’t seek treatment or it isn’t available. They jus get sick and die where they are- without ever having a covid test, going to hospital, getting oxygen, getting death reported, etc.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Yes I worry a little about my two year old who has never had a fever. Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely happy she is healthy but also wondering if the lack of exposure to people and germs is that good for her.


That doesn’t mean anything. I have three kids, oldest 11 none have ever had fevers. I’m 37 and can recall having a fever maybe twice in my life. That isn’t to say none of us ever get sick with anything, but fever just doesn’t present. I have a sister that gets a 103 fever nearly every time she is sick with anything.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes I worry a little about my two year old who has never had a fever. Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely happy she is healthy but also wondering if the lack of exposure to people and germs is that good for her.


That doesn’t mean anything. I have three kids, oldest 11 none have ever had fevers. I’m 37 and can recall having a fever maybe twice in my life. That isn’t to say none of us ever get sick with anything, but fever just doesn’t present. I have a sister that gets a 103 fever nearly every time she is sick with anything.


Good to know, thanks!
Anonymous
This is true - that's why kids in daycare have lower risk of leukemia. Do you have a female dog? Having a female dog in the house and letting the kids play in the dirt greatly benefit their immune system. I also give mine probiotics and vitamin D.
jsmith123
Member Offline
Yes, I do think about this. Younger DS is in in-person school this year and we've had a couple colds. I was happy, in a weird way. I feel like it's good to be "normal sick".

Also, I have been much less concerned about them getting sick playing in Rock Creek or whatever. I feel like they're introducing species to their microbiomes or something.
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