Appropriate discipline when toddler says "NO!" to parent?

[Anonymous]

My 3 year old has really just started to assert himself. He's a good kid, but he has finally figured out that he can say "No" to things. I'm struggling to come up with a consistent and fair theory of discipline that both allows for him to express his opinion, but also promotes a level of "respect for parents" and sense that he ultimately has to do what he is told.

There are lots of situations that this comes up in, but let me give you one and if you're willing to respond with how you would handle it, I'd be interested to get opinions.

At bed time, I tell son "It's time for bed" (this is after giving him several warnings that it was coming up), and he responds "NO!" and stays put. Currently, I've been saying "sweetie, it IS time for bed, please come with me." and that has been doing the trick... but I KNOW that its only a matter of time before my second statement is met with a further "NO!". Then what?

I don't really believe in manhandling kids... what if he simply won't go up the stairs? Do I take away a privilege? What if that doesn't work? Do I just let him stay downstairs all night? How do you deal with intransigence?

[Anonymous]

If you want him to be able to express himself more clearly and respectfully, tell you that you don't understand what he means by only saying "no" and ask for more of an explanation. Such as - "No? Do you mean that you don't want to go to bed? Don't you think that you will be tired tomorrow if you don't sleep tonight?"
All the while, continuing whatever routine you have for him, even if it means carrying him to his room. "Diffuse while listening" usually works for me, I do what I can to not escalate it.

I, personally, would not push discipline at bedtime with a small child. If they are already tired, it will be a huge ordeal. But, you should do whatever is right for your family.

[Anonymous]

I find 3 to be a really tough age. Kids are asserting independence, but they also really need boundaries. If they know some rules are firm, those are the ones they don't push.

I struggle as well with the line between respecting DD's opinion and wants and demanding her respect for my rules and authority.

I have decided not to push things that I have no control over. If I ask her to go to the bathroom before we leave the house and she refuses, I don't push it. It will just be a screaming match and in the end, even if I get her to sit, I can't make her go.

On the other hand, things that she must do, like put on her shoes before school, are non-negotiable. If she says she doesn't want to, I ask her a second time, and then I start to count. I don't know why, but the fear of me counting to 3 is greater than the fear of a time-out, even though once I count to 3, the punishment is a time-out.

So we do a lot of counting. Usually by the time I say "1" she says "don't count!" and starts doing things. On occasion, I have given an open-ended time-out, ie: you will sit here until you decide that you are ready to do X. So for your son who doesn't want to go to bed, it's a time-out until he's ready to cooperate. I'll bet after sitting on the kitchen floor for 3 minutes with no company and no toys will make him decide he's ready for a fun bath and stories instead!

Although they seem so smart at this age, 3 year olds are still not rational creatures. I have not found that talking to explain my position is a good use of time.

[Anonymous]

I've been reading a good book "Love and Logic for Toddlers". I'm impressed by the way they explain situations and also how to discipline without "manhandling". My mom was a yeller, I vowed to myself that I wouldn't do that to my child, and the book addresses how to talk to your children and empower them without you having to compromise. I definitely learned from the book.

[Anonymous]

yeah, the counting works for me too for some reason. i'll say, should i count to 10 and then you'll come upstairs...and my son will say no, count to 8. and i say ok. he sort of gets his way and it turns into a game. it doesn't always work but it often does. yelling or insisting on my part usually escalates everything and he pushes back and it all takes much longer to diffuse. i also try let's pick an animal to be to go up the stairs....or let's be an airplane. or have him go upstairs and hide and i'll come find him. kind of ignoring his "no" and just continuing the bedtime routine with another strategy....i'm not sure what the "theory" of this is, but it's been working pretty well.

[Anonymous]

I also count to three. Somehow the number 2 usually works.
If I get to three, I "help" him get to the table. Since manhandling him doesn't work, I have to listening to what he wants, and find small compromises to make him happy. So he feels he has some control, about smaller things. So last night, he needed help getting to the table and after counting to three, I said I'd take him and his toolbox with us and we'd go sit at the table. Of course, his reply was that he wanted to carry the toolbox, which he did, straight to the table. We had a similar issue with going to the bath, so we read one more book, then I picked him up and put him in the bath. He stayed calm and smiley. He knows the routine at night.
HTH

[Anonymous]

Early on when the "no" stage came, I would look at my kids and tell them that I don't remember saying that it was optional. Not sure that they knew what I meant, but usually it did the trick. What helps is that I am known for negotiating when it doesn't matter. Like, when I give the pre-bedtime warnings, I will say something like "in five minutes it's bedtime." Invariably, one yells up "no six". Since really, who cares over a minute, I always agreed - but then they could not later try to change their amount to ten. So, when I say it's not optional, they know I mean it.

Like others, I also found that counting works wonders and would definitely do that before I carried him to bed. But, for my younger son, counting to 3 doesn't work - but counting from ten backwards does. Go figure.

[Anonymous]

That is what toddlers do.

I agree with the advice to ask for more info from the kid, just be careful not to bombard him with questions. There are also some things that are not negotiable, and it is worth some tantrums to get that point across.

13:19 has some good advice, too.

[Anonymous]

Indeed! Counting to 3 works for me too. Of course, she also knows what happens when 3 gets around... so she'll get moving by 2.

[Anonymous]

It doesn't get better, LOL. 4-year olds can be just as stubborn and we have a real limit-tester! It's a real struggle because standing ground can often lead to escalation. We do counting and it doesn't always work -- then there's often a privilege lost (no TV tonight, no dessert).

I also don't like yelling but sometimes that's the only thing that seems to work (which means that something isn't working well!). Just the other day, DS yelled at me "Why are you always telling me what to do?!!"

[Anonymous]

I think it is normal for a 2 yr old to say no, and not really understand the meaning, 3 yrs old should know better. And as far as "what if he will not come to be?" Come on, he is 3, picking him up and putting him in the bed is not manhandleling him, I would turn off everything in the room, including the lights, and say good night to him. I think maybe a parenting class would do you good, because if you think getting your 3 yr old to bed is hard, wait until he is a teenager and knows you are afraid of him. Good luck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is normal for a 2 yr old to say no, and not really understand the meaning, 3 yrs old should know better. And as far as "what if he will not come to be?" Come on, he is 3, picking him up and putting him in the bed is not manhandleling him, I would turn off everything in the room, including the lights, and say good night to him. I think maybe a parenting class would do you good, because if you think getting your 3 yr old to bed is hard, wait until he is a teenager and knows you are afraid of him. Good luck

My goodness. Where on earth did the OP say she's afraid of her 3 year old? Someone is projecting a bit. And I imagine some other posters might think your yourself would benefit from a parenting class.

[Anonymous]

I also love the book Love and Logic for Early Childhood. My son is nearly 3 years old and it works well with him. If he wastes his time coming upstairs while I run the bath, getting dressed for bed, etc, I say once or twice "It would be so sad if we didn't have time for stories tonight because you are wasting your time ________." That usually gets him moving and on occasion when he just fools around, I put him to bed w/o stories. Actions most definitely speak louder than words. There are times when I have had to pick him up (last week when he wouldn't leave the playground for example) but he gets over it. Just don't get yourself bent out of shape when he says "No" since half of what they want is to see your reaction. They are like little scientists.

[Anonymous]

I've been giving lots of choices (also Love and Logic), but our bedtime routine is pretty set. When it's cleanup time, I ask, do you want 5 minutes or 6 minutes to cleanup? (this starts the bedtime process). I set the timer and when it goes off I turn on their 20min video (they're welcome to watch it with me when they're done picking up up their toys). Bedtime is always after the video. They've tried delaying, but have given up!

You could ask - do you want to go to bed in 3 minutes or 4 (only 2 choices)? do you want to read one book or two when you're in bed? do you want a big kiss or little kiss? come up with all kinds of choices (related to bedtime) so he feels like he's in charge. if he says no, you can say 'I'm sorry, that wasn't one of the choices, and you decide for him'.

Also, if you give lots of choices during the day to your 3 year old, besides feeling more powerful/content about sharing the control (instead of being ordered around all day!), they will probably also understand when you say 'I'm sorry honey. I gave you lots of choices all day. It's mommy's turn. and it's time for bed.'

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been reading a good book "Love and Logic for Toddlers". I'm impressed by the way they explain situations and also how to discipline without "manhandling". My mom was a yeller, I vowed to myself that I wouldn't do that to my child, and the book addresses how to talk to your children and empower them without you having to compromise. I definitely learned from the book.

Thank you for what appears to be a good book reference!