Unhappy teachers and parents - what is the solution?

[Anonymous]

I'm relatively new to the DCPS scene - Dh and I are in the midst of the stay-or-go debate. I understand that Rhee is polarizing for both parents and teachers, but I have yet to see any really constructive posts from those who are anti-Rhee. I see lots of complaints, but little in the way of alternative solutions.

So, here's your chance.

Setting her abrasive personality aside, if you were chancellor, what would you do differently, not just for your child or school, but system-wide?

How would you measure performance and fight the union to get rid of bad teachers and reward/recruit good ones with incentives to stay?

How would you address the racial/socio-economic divide that is inherent in DC and all inner-city public school systems?

- Parents and teachers aren't big fans of all the testing. Ok, so what do you propose as alternatives for measuring performance of teachers, students and schools? As parents, we use the test scores as one data point to determine which schools to consider for our kids. If not tests, then what? If not these test, then which ones?

- Rhee et al are going after the low hanging fruit and focusing on specific schools in specific areas for improvement. How would you allocate DCPS resources differently?

- How would you encourage more parent involvement across the board, not just for certain demographics?

- How would you advocate for ALL DC children to get a quality education, not just your own?

These are big questions with complex, long-term answers. I don't have the answers, but Dh and I would like to try to be part of the solution. We moved here from Chicago and I've mentored a young Chicago woman for over 10 years now. She was in 4th grade when we met and she is now a sophomore at a small liberal arts college with close to a full scholarship. Through her, I've seen the many pitfalls of inner city education. Statistically, if she graduates from college in 4 years, she will be on of only 4% of her Chicago Public Schools graduating class to do so, given that 50% don't even make it out of high school in 4 years. She is smart, motivated and had good grades, but was still ill-prepared for college level work.

There are huge, systemic problems with all large city school systems that can't be fixed overnight. I know I'm very pollyanna in thinking that if we all channeled our energy toward advocating for ALL children in DC, many of whom have no options, our own children would benefit. But I'm also very aware that Dh and I are facing a ticking clock of about 18-24 months until we need to make a decision for our own children.

Anyone want to take on the questions? Or are you content to just sit back, complain and/or focus on your own little slice of the world.

[Anonymous]

I wish the following numbers were as easy to find as test scores:
* attendence %
* re-enrollment %
* average teacher tenure
* principal and vp tenure
* % of faculty/staff children eligible to attend the school who do so

Test scores are a useful tool, but they get blown out of proportion because they're the only meaningful numbers we have (and people measure what they can measure).

[jsteele]

Here is the Master Education Plan developed by Clifford Janey. I am not a professional educator, but he is. Rather than rely on my plan, I would rely on his:

http://www.steele.com/MEP.pdf

This plan was the result of much community collaboration. I don't think you improve DCPS by alienating stakeholders, but by working with them. That was the strength of Janey's plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Setting her abrasive personality aside, if you were chancellor, what would you do differently, not just for your child or school, but system-wide? Anyone want to take on the questions? Or are you content to just sit back, complain and/or focus on your own little slice of the world.

Huh? I know nothing about Chicago, but my sense is the schools aren't exactly "fixed" there either. The chancellor is not the only person trying to address these issues. That's why almost 40% of our kids are in charters and why CBOs take on a big chunk of education-related services. The current hubub in DC is not what she's advocating but how she's going about doing it. I don't mean personality. We've had much worse in DC politics. It's doing and saying irresponsible (some think borderline illegal) things that set her up as a target and risk important reforms. There are many talented people at 825, some from NY and Chicago, and certainly in the schools. Much of what Rhee purports actually reflects what the local community has been advocating well before Rhee (contrary to popular belief outside the Beltway).

OP, you sound like someone with a passion for public education. Which is great! Welcome to DC. But please check your attitude at the Potomac. We get enough condescending intervention from Congress and hordes of policy wonks (few of whom live in 202).

If Rhee's tenure will determine your long-term residency, then you seem to have answered your own questions and you will likely be gone soon. It's OK. We're used to high turnover.

But I do sincerely hope you decide to stay. We can use energy and involvement.

(BTW, DC's college graduation is 2% in wards 7 & 8 where unemployment is pushing 30%. Please don't pontificate to us on urban poverty.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm relatively new to the DCPS scene - Dh and I are in the midst of the stay-or-go debate. I understand that Rhee is polarizing for both parents and teachers, but I have yet to see any really constructive posts from those who are anti-Rhee. I see lots of complaints, but little in the way of alternative solutions.

So, here's your chance.

Setting her abrasive personality aside, if you were chancellor, what would you do differently, not just for your child or school, but system-wide?

How would you measure performance and fight the union to get rid of bad teachers and reward/recruit good ones with incentives to stay?

I'd start by not implying that teachers who were axed because of budget cuts were all child abusers. And if someone misunderstood me to have said that, I'd move immediatley to correct the record, publicly stating my respect for teachers.

Really, what sane teacher would choose to get a job in the District, knowing that slander is a real possibility?

(And let me add: I don't think it's necessary to "fight the union." In fact, this entire city would be better off if Rhee had tried to work with the union, instead of playing to the stereotype of smashing it.)

- Parents and teachers aren't big fans of all the testing. Ok, so what do you propose as alternatives for measuring performance of teachers, students and schools? As parents, we use the test scores as one data point to determine which schools to consider for our kids. If not tests, then what? If not these test, then which ones?

The chapter on the varieties of achievement testing was somehow missing from the "What to Expect" books, so I, a mere parent, am not up on the latest testing pedagogy. I'd love to hear your take. All I know is, testing should take 2 weeks, tops, away from instructional time. This includes not only test-taking time, but also prep time.

<other questions omitted>

These are big questions with complex, long-term answers. I don't have the answers, but Dh and I would like to try to be part of the solution.

Great! You might start a different thread asking where current DCPS parents see opportunities for you to volunteer and advocate. But I confess that your ending quote:

Anyone want to take on the questions? Or are you content to just sit back, complain and/or focus on your own little slice of the world.

...makes me doubt your sincerity or your ability to work with other parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Setting her abrasive personality aside, if you were chancellor, what would you do differently, not just for your child or school, but system-wide? Anyone want to take on the questions? Or are you content to just sit back, complain and/or focus on your own little slice of the world.

Huh? I know nothing about Chicago, but my sense is the schools aren't exactly "fixed" there either. The chancellor is not the only person trying to address these issues. That's why almost 40% of our kids are in charters and why CBOs take on a big chunk of education-related services. The current hubub in DC is not what she's advocating but how she's going about doing it. I don't mean personality. We've had much worse in DC politics. It's doing and saying irresponsible (some think borderline illegal) things that set her up as a target and risk important reforms. There are many talented people at 825, some from NY and Chicago, and certainly in the schools. Much of what Rhee purports actually reflects what the local community has been advocating well before Rhee (contrary to popular belief outside the Beltway).

OP, you sound like someone with a passion for public education. Which is great! Welcome to DC. But please check your attitude at the Potomac. We get enough condescending intervention from Congress and hordes of policy wonks (few of whom live in 202).

If Rhee's tenure will determine your long-term residency, then you seem to have answered your own questions and you will likely be gone soon. It's OK. We're used to high turnover.

But I do sincerely hope you decide to stay. We can use energy and involvement.

(BTW, DC's college graduation is 2% in wards 7 & 8 where unemployment is pushing 30%. Please don't pontificate to us on urban poverty.)

OP here - the last sentence of my post was unnecessary snark - would edit it if I could.

By no means was I saying that Chicago has it figured out. Quite the contrary. Is there any large city school system that can be held as a standard of excellence? I used my mentee in Chicago as an example of someone who has done far better than most, was lucky enough to get into one of the good city high schools, and still ended up with a sub-par public school education compared to her suburban peers. It's wrong on so many levels.

As for Rhee, I haven't made up my mind about her.

The catalyst for my post was the seeming sense of hopelessness in some of the threads here. The "If you're OOB for the top schools and can't game the lottery system you're screwed" message. Lots of complaints, few constructive suggestions for improvement.

As I said, I want to be part of the solution. Long-term, ideally. If PP or anyone else can point me in a constructive direction for involvement, I welcome it. Are there any organized groups for parents outside of PTAs? For example, did Cooke parents rally interest and gain momentum last year, or before that? If there are other examples of how parents helped turn schools around, I'd love to hear about them to continue my own education about DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The catalyst for my post was the seeming sense of hopelessness in some of the threads here. The "If you're OOB for the top schools and can't game the lottery system you're screwed" message.

17:46 here. I also see this attitude, and it annoys me as well. But I've managed to tune it out somewhat. I tend to figure it all comes from parents who are either in-bounds (or sibling-preferenced) at one of the Good Schools, or folks who at worst could afford private school, or a move to MoCo. Me, I have to be a DCPS optimist, because I know that my family is stuck. We're just shy of upside-down on a mortgage in Petworth, a block from a now-shuttered neighborhood school and re-zoned into a school a mile-long walk along Georgia Ave. No move, no private for us--which I think has made it much easier for me to be open to the possibility that there are great schools besides JKLMO.

And on this board I've found tons of information about schools where my son does have a prayer of getting in--good charters (Haynes, Yu Ying, Bridges--I know there are others, but those are my favorites) and public schools where he might get in OOB (Thomson & Clarke, neither of which I would have considered without the things I've heard on this very board in the past 2 weeks, as well as Bancroft, which I'll still give a chance to).

It's true that I'm not talking about ways to use my energy to try to improve that mile-south school, and the lives of other kids on our block might be a tiny bit better if I did that. And I have really no idea how to fix the entire system. The things I hear about IMPACT make my skin crawl. I guess I feel like there should be a lot more peer-review for teachers--the fifth grade teachers surely know whether the fourth-grade teachers did their jobs.

sorry, this feels like rambling. I just wanted to say that I see the negativity that you do, but I'm also used to seeing that sort of attitude from the privileged, and while this board hasn't taught me how to fix things, it's pointed me to a few schools where I think my son could thrive. For that I'm most grateful.

[Anonymous]

18:26 here. I meant Cooke, not Clarke.

[Anonymous]

Sorry -- nice questions and certainly important at some level. But if you decide to do DCPS you *do* need to decide based on that slice of world where you plan to live. People who choose DCPS (that is, those of us who have a choice to stay or go) generally should not do it based on whether the big picture is developing correctly or not. The important thing is whether there is a good community (parents, teachers, staff) building around that school where your dc will spend the formative years of his/her life.

I mentor too and I wish I could send my mentee off to a top notch private school for kids with learning disabilities. As far as parents go, her parents are present and they make sure she and her sibs get to the tutoring program and go to charter schools. But she's not really getting what she needs.

On the other hand, a well-educated upper middle class professional -- that's someone who can work the system and their kid may get what they need from DCPS (mine did for the most part).

Rhee, whatever I think of her, can only do so much to make up for those class differences. Poor and working class families need much more in the way of support than they are getting now and a mainstream administrator like her is not likely to do much about it. In fact parent participation seems to be rather low on her list of priorities, let alone empowering parents with the skills they need to be effective advocates for their children.

It's nice that you want to work on the big picture with regard to DCPS. I just don't recommend making decisions about the future of your family based on the big picture.

[Anonymous]

you wrote: " If there are other examples of how parents helped turn schools around, I'd love to hear about them to continue my own education about DCPS. "


For a school that has had an amazing turn-around based on a lot of parent support, check out the story of Brent Elementary on Capitol Hill. It all started with 2 or 3 parents in the nearby park starting a group called "Brent Neighbors" and it has taken off from there. Now this is a gem of school with a very bright future....waiting lists in the hundreds for a school of 220 kids.

www.brentelementary.org

[Anonymous]

Abstractly, look for success stories and try to replicate them. Stop destroying things before you have something better to put in place. Identify and empower good teachers. Train and support average teachers. Fire bad teachers but do so in a way that other teachers recognize the legitimacy of those decisions (e.g. start with the egregious cases, document the problems, use due process).

More wraparound services in school. More parent involvement (through a combination of empowerment and provision of services).

Fix special ed. If need be, import a host of special ed teachers/psychs from across the nation to visit DC for a few weeks and test kids. The numbers are small enough that a one time effort could clear up the backlog. Hire someone who is first class to run special ed and set up a model school.

If the goal is to attract/retain upper middle class families, then pursue it in ways that don't come at the expense of other families. Locate schools/innovative programs in places where the twain shall meet. Oyster's initial success was based on this model; so are many charters. Janey's academies plan showed promise.

In general, trying to fix everything at once generally means you fix nothing. Tackle a few discrete and manageable turnaround projects to build credibility and good will. People (parents, teachers) have to believe there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Right now it looks more like an abattoir.

[Anonymous]

OP,
First of all I think she's a mean person. I think she equates being nice to being weak. So maybe we could start there. I would also like her to stop lying. She's contradicting herself all the time. Let's tell the truth. As for managing, she has to stop being so disruptive. Firing principals willynilly, kowtowing to the upper class, being erratic, being unprofessional (her comments to the press are nothing short of unprofessional).
What To Do:
- I think schools need more administrators. Principals do everything at many schools. Principals need support. Learning specialist, counselor, etc.
- Develop a curriculum. That would be groundbreaking. The shift to standards gives teachers too much leeway in curriculum development and it is a mess. The emphasis should be on what students learn, not the results.
- Foster a culture that celebrates every child's gifts. NO ALL CHILDREN TEST WELL. Embrace other outputs.

[Anonymous]

PP here.
NOT ALL POSTERS TYPE WELL.
I meant to type NOT ALL STUDENTS TEST WELL!

[Anonymous]

"Fix special ed. If need be, import a host of special ed teachers/psychs from across the nation to visit DC for a few weeks and test kids. The numbers are small enough that a one time effort could clear up the backlog. Hire someone who is first class to run special ed and set up a model school."

Yes. I'm not anti-Rhee, but I think this needs to be very high on the agenda and from the little I know it is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:you wrote: " If there are other examples of how parents helped turn schools around, I'd love to hear about them to continue my own education about DCPS. "


For a school that has had an amazing turn-around based on a lot of parent support, check out the story of Brent Elementary on Capitol Hill. It all started with 2 or 3 parents in the nearby park starting a group called "Brent Neighbors" and it has taken off from there. Now this is a gem of school with a very bright future....waiting lists in the hundreds for a school of 220 kids.

www.brentelementary.org

Brent, Ross, Cooke, Thomson, the ingredients are always the same: You need (1) a decent, safe physical facility, (2) a quality principal who will fight to get good teachers in to -- and bad teachers out of -- the school, and (3) a meaningful core group of at least reasonably educated parents who figure out how to solve the collective action problem and get a significant number of engaged families to commit to the school rather than fleeing it. Once those elements are in place, momentum can swing positive quickly. This is the very first year that items (1) and (3) are in place at Cooke -- a year ago, lots of people thought the parent group comprising (3) were flat-out nuts; now, Cooke is a "hot" school with a very real chance to succeed. If (3) keeps happening there for a few more years, and (2) doesn't disappear, Cooke will become a self-sustaining "good" school (at which point there no longer will be a collective action problem to solve).