Anonymous wrote:Here is my personal experience with employers trying to address race problems.
The employer first tries to hire black people equally qualified (by education and experience) as the rest of the applicant pool.
Those candidates are HIGHLY sought after. Employer is not able to attract them.
Employer then reduces a the requirements, finds applicants, and hires.
The black employee is then assigned work as they would be if they had the preferred experience and education, or at least similar.
The employee is not able to meet expectations.
The company then slowly stops giving them the work they were hired to do. The company avoids difficult conversations about how the employee is not fulfilling the needs of their role because they’re scared of being called racist (or, if they’ve done bias training, managers are even scared that they *are* racist).
The employee is gently counseled out after a couple of years.
Nothing offered right now by far left OR mainstream “anti racism” training or theory addresses any of this. I would love to see people engage with this real problem. But telling more employers they should do what my employers have done, which is lower the bar for hiring? No. That’s not helping.
Oh, my.
Oh my indeed. It’s a big fat disaster. I’ve seen exactly this play out several times. And the answer from the leading voices in “anti racism” is that meritocracy is the problem? That’s not helping us in industry actually trying to live anti racist values.
In my company they’re generally moved to middle management roles where not much damage can be done or moved into the rapidly growing “diversity, inclusion and equity” portion of HR.
I’m the poster you’re quoting. That’s not at all my experience. Black hires are set up to fail, then do fail, and nothing is done to change the cycle.
Anonymous wrote:In my company they’re generally moved to middle management roles where not much damage can be done or moved into the rapidly growing “diversity, inclusion and equity” portion of HR.
I’m the poster you’re quoting. That’s not at all my experience. Black hires are set up to fail, then do fail, and nothing is done to change the cycle.
We can't teach the kids dates of the Second World War! and you think they will learn something in the long run from reading a book?
They did learn something from it though, didn't they?
That mom and dad think Black people are making things up and they do not have it so bad here!
Anonymous wrote:Coleman Hughes is funded by rightwing billionares and his career was built via those billionaires at the Manhattan Institute. His ideas lost in the marketplace, and we only hear about them because billionaires find him politically useful to achieve their agenda. Wealthy funders are the reason he’s part of public debate.
That’s a long way of saying: Don’t be fooled. Hughes has been selected by the wealthy to deceive you.
What is the agenda that billionaire founders are trying to achieve through Coleman? His messages and approach to anti racism seem very positive and balanced. Far left anti racism messages actually start to sound racist and are also funded by billionaires.
PP, if you think they're "far left", then please consider recalibrating your political spectrum. They're not far-left at all. They're conventional and mainstream.
DP. So you don’t think there exists a single far left “anti racist” view and that they’re all conventional and mainstream?
Instead of asking hypothetical questions, please provide an example of a viewpoint you consider "far left".
That meritocracy, including requiring a certain level of education and experience when hiring for a job, is racist.
No, we need to unbundle that. Is it racist to require a certain level of education and experience when hiring for a job, when that job's tasks requires the knowledge/skills acquired through that education and experience? No. Is it racist to require a certain level of education and experience when hiring for a job, unrelated to that job's tasks, as a way of weeding out "unqualified" applicants? It might be. Is the idea that the US is a meritocratic society racist? Yes.
Something you may not know is that the term "meritocracy" was invented by an English sociologist to describe a dystopia (Michael Young, "The Rise of the Dystopia"). I wonder whether there are people who would complain about "culture wars" and "far-left" indoctrination if students in MCPS were assigned that book.
I’m not making that example up. It’s something that I read that was building on the teachings of Ibram Kendi and personally consider to be “far left anti racism.” It exists. You don’t agree with it, fine. But it’s part of the dialogue in my social circle of highly educated millennials with jobs on the Hill and in media and in education.
It's something you read somewhere, written by somebody, who said it somewhere...
It's not "far left" anti-racism to say that the US is not a meritocracy and that employers are requiring college degrees for jobs that don't require college degrees as a way of eliminating, well, "those people" from the applicant pool.
So it’s far left and fringe, it doesn’t exist, or that person is right? Because you’re saying all 3 here. Which is it?
It's not "far left" anti-racism to say that the US is not a meritocracy and that employers are requiring college degrees for jobs that don't require college degrees as a way of eliminating, well, "those people" from the applicant pool.
You are ridiculous if you think that employers or professions use educational qualifications to specifically weed out racial groups. Instead, they use increasing educational qualification to weed out people who are uneducated. The difficulty of obtaining a high school diploma has been reduced to zero, so its value as a signal to employers of basic education and perseverance has also been reduced. Hence, the basic employment qualification is now a bachelor's degree. Unfortunately, the substance behind those degrees is also being reduced, causing further inflation in the need for degrees.
If you want to solve this problem, go back to K-12 education and demand that there be real substance in teaching and expectations for learning. Demand that failure not only be allowed, but can be expected for kids who do not perform. Give them multiple attempts, give them vocational opportunities, etc. if they fail, BUT don't graduate them unless they can read, write, do math, assess scientific data and know something about history, geography, government and economics. This is the biggest gift that you could give kids of any racial group, not the false compassion of social promotion, weakened standardized tests, affirmative action into colleges above their level of achievement, etc.
This!
Provide a better public education for ALL kids. Watering down the public education system isn’t helping anyone. Make sure the kids are actually learning IN school. A strong, proven curriculum, smaller class sizes, well-trained and well-supported teachers and leave out the nonsense.
Anonymous wrote:In my company they’re generally moved to middle management roles where not much damage can be done or moved into the rapidly growing “diversity, inclusion and equity” portion of HR.
I’m the poster you’re quoting. That’s not at all my experience. Black hires are set up to fail, then do fail, and nothing is done to change the cycle.
Says a lot about your company, I guess.
Not the PP, but yes, it means they probably have competent people working there.
Anonymous wrote:In my company they’re generally moved to middle management roles where not much damage can be done or moved into the rapidly growing “diversity, inclusion and equity” portion of HR.
I’m the poster you’re quoting. That’s not at all my experience. Black hires are set up to fail, then do fail, and nothing is done to change the cycle.
Says a lot about your company, I guess.
It’s been at more than one company, and not just companies I worked at. Pretending this isn’t happening won’t help anyone.
Anonymous wrote:In my company they’re generally moved to middle management roles where not much damage can be done or moved into the rapidly growing “diversity, inclusion and equity” portion of HR.
I’m the poster you’re quoting. That’s not at all my experience. Black hires are set up to fail, then do fail, and nothing is done to change the cycle.
Says a lot about your company, I guess.
Not the PP, but yes, it means they probably have competent people working there.
Competent people in good companies train employees. They don't just hire them to check boxes and set them up to fail.
Anonymous wrote:In my company they’re generally moved to middle management roles where not much damage can be done or moved into the rapidly growing “diversity, inclusion and equity” portion of HR.
I’m the poster you’re quoting. That’s not at all my experience. Black hires are set up to fail, then do fail, and nothing is done to change the cycle.
Says a lot about your company, I guess.
Not the PP, but yes, it means they probably have competent people working there.
Competent people in good companies train employees. They don't just hire them to check boxes and set them up to fail.
I *am* the PP and I agree completely! My problem is that none of the corporate anti racist dialogue addresses this. Diversity hires might need more supports. Let’s talk about it and be ready.
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