Remember that thing about MoCo Parks/Playgrounds Reopening?

[Anonymous]

I don’t even care about the parks or playgrounds being open. I really want to understand why the parts department is state run but it’s not state run and it’s county run but it’s not county run. If it was state run well, state parks and playgrounds are open so why are they not open? If it’s county run, the county is now open so why aren’t they open?I want to get to the middle of this big bowl of red tape. It’s bureaucracy at its finest.

I thank OP for bringing this crazy bureaucracy to everyone’s attention and even doing some digging.

[Anonymous]

Independent agencies aren't that uncommon. And I can almost understand why you'd have one for zoning/planning (though, the idea of unelected leaders making those decisions is personally disturbing).

What I don't get is why they'd put parks under this.

I'm not going to buy and read a 500 page book, but there's some more information here:
https://sites.google.com/view/suburbanization/how-montgomery-county-grew

It doesn't really address why parks fell under the commission, as opposed to the county. Apparently E. Brooke Lee fought to put it under the commission, as opposed to the respective counties. Again, it seems like a bad idea to create unelected, and nearly unaccountable, leaders responsible for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Independent agencies aren't that uncommon. And I can almost understand why you'd have one for zoning/planning (though, the idea of unelected leaders making those decisions is personally disturbing).

What I don't get is why they'd put parks under this.

I'm not going to buy and read a 500 page book, but there's some more information here:
https://sites.google.com/view/suburbanization/how-montgomery-county-grew

It doesn't really address why parks fell under the commission, as opposed to the county. Apparently E. Brooke Lee fought to put it under the commission, as opposed to the respective counties. Again, it seems like a bad idea to create unelected, and nearly unaccountable, leaders responsible for that.

That's a shame, because it's a good book. You can borrow it from the library, when the library opens again.

Meanwhile, why is Parks part of M-NCPPC? Because parks are part of land-use planning. M-NCPPC owns a lot of land, especially in the stream valleys. That didn't just somehow randomly happen. It was part of the suburban development of Montgomery County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Independent agencies aren't that uncommon. And I can almost understand why you'd have one for zoning/planning (though, the idea of unelected leaders making those decisions is personally disturbing).

What I don't get is why they'd put parks under this.

I'm not going to buy and read a 500 page book, but there's some more information here:
https://sites.google.com/view/suburbanization/how-montgomery-county-grew

It doesn't really address why parks fell under the commission, as opposed to the county. Apparently E. Brooke Lee fought to put it under the commission, as opposed to the respective counties. Again, it seems like a bad idea to create unelected, and nearly unaccountable, leaders responsible for that.

That's a shame, because it's a good book. You can borrow it from the library, when the library opens again.

Meanwhile, why is Parks part of M-NCPPC? Because parks are part of land-use planning. M-NCPPC owns a lot of land, especially in the stream valleys. That didn't just somehow randomly happen. It was part of the suburban development of Montgomery County.

Also there are parks that cross county lines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I don’t even care about the parks or playgrounds being open. I really want to understand why the parts department is state run but it’s not state run and it’s county run but it’s not county run. If it was state run well, state parks and playgrounds are open so why are they not open? If it’s county run, the county is now open so why aren’t they open?I want to get to the middle of this big bowl of red tape. It’s bureaucracy at its finest.

I thank OP for bringing this crazy bureaucracy to everyone’s attention and even doing some digging.

It's a state-level intercounty/regional agency. Maryland has a lot of them. WSSC is one too. Do you consider WSSC to be a big bowl of red tape/bureaucracy at its finest?

Additive Manufacturing Partnership of Maryland, Regional
Baltimore Metropolitan Council
Baltimore Regional Transportation Board
Fort George G. Meade Regional Growth Management Committee
Maryland-National Capital Park & Planning Commission
Mid-Shore Regional Council
National Capital Region Emergency Preparedness Council
National Capital Region Transportation Planning Board
Northeast Maryland Waste Disposal Authority
Southern Maryland Agricultural Development Commission
Tri-County Council for the Lower Eastern Shore of Maryland
Tri-County Council for Southern Maryland
Tri-County Council for Western Maryland
Upper Potomac River Commission
Upper Shore Regional Council
Washington Suburban Sanitary Commission
Washington Suburban Transit Commission
Water/Wastewater Agency Response Network, Maryland

https://msa.maryland.gov/msa/mdmanual/35interc/00list.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Independent agencies aren't that uncommon. And I can almost understand why you'd have one for zoning/planning (though, the idea of unelected leaders making those decisions is personally disturbing).

What I don't get is why they'd put parks under this.

I'm not going to buy and read a 500 page book, but there's some more information here:
https://sites.google.com/view/suburbanization/how-montgomery-county-grew

It doesn't really address why parks fell under the commission, as opposed to the county. Apparently E. Brooke Lee fought to put it under the commission, as opposed to the respective counties. Again, it seems like a bad idea to create unelected, and nearly unaccountable, leaders responsible for that.

That's a shame, because it's a good book. You can borrow it from the library, when the library opens again.

Meanwhile, why is Parks part of M-NCPPC? Because parks are part of land-use planning. M-NCPPC owns a lot of land, especially in the stream valleys. That didn't just somehow randomly happen. It was part of the suburban development of Montgomery County.

If you're serious, and it's not as absurdly dry as the topic sounds, then I'll get it.

From the reading I've been able to do, it sounds like Montgomery County wanted to manage its own parks, but Brooke Lee fought it. I could get why *establishing* parks would be part of the development/planning process, but in other places don't the parks ultimately get managed by a municipal or county agency?

[Anonymous]

PP here. I started skimming through that "Suburb, PanningPolitics and the Public Interest" book.

Maybe it will be more obvious if I read the thing cover-to-cover, but a quick search for terms suggests I'm not going to get a clear answer on why Brook Lee apparently fought to keep planning and parks outside of County government.

Surburb Excerpt wrote:
The absence of a plan for the development of a Montgomery County was a significant issue in the campaign for a home rule charter. After Brook Lee frustrated its efforts to incorporate the park and planning functions into county government, the first Charter Council created a seperate Upper Montgomery County Planning Commission to prepare plans for areas outside the Maryland-National Capital Park and Planning Commission district.

I'll keep reading, from the beginning this time, but can you shed any light on this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don’t even care about the parks or playgrounds being open. I really want to understand why the parts department is state run but it’s not state run and it’s county run but it’s not county run. If it was state run well, state parks and playgrounds are open so why are they not open? If it’s county run, the county is now open so why aren’t they open?I want to get to the middle of this big bowl of red tape. It’s bureaucracy at its finest.

I thank OP for bringing this crazy bureaucracy to everyone’s attention and even doing some digging.

It's a state-level intercounty/regional agency. Maryland has a lot of them. WSSC is one too. Do you consider WSSC to be a big bowl of red tape/bureaucracy at its finest?

Additive Manufacturing Partnership of Maryland, Regional
Baltimore Metropolitan Council
Baltimore Regional Transportation Board
Fort George G. Meade Regional Growth Management Committee
Maryland-National Capital Park & Planning Commission
Mid-Shore Regional Council
National Capital Region Emergency Preparedness Council
National Capital Region Transportation Planning Board
Northeast Maryland Waste Disposal Authority
Southern Maryland Agricultural Development Commission
Tri-County Council for the Lower Eastern Shore of Maryland
Tri-County Council for Southern Maryland
Tri-County Council for Western Maryland
Upper Potomac River Commission
Upper Shore Regional Council
Washington Suburban Sanitary Commission
Washington Suburban Transit Commission
Water/Wastewater Agency Response Network, Maryland

https://msa.maryland.gov/msa/mdmanual/35interc/00list.html

Hello government worker! The WSSC is open and so are it’s Parks.

[Anonymous]

Even the introduction to that book seems to say it is an unusual set up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even the introduction to that book seems to say it is an unusual set up.

It is an unusual set-up. It isn't a unique, unprecedented, nothing anything like this anywhere else ever set-up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Independent agencies aren't that uncommon. And I can almost understand why you'd have one for zoning/planning (though, the idea of unelected leaders making those decisions is personally disturbing).

What I don't get is why they'd put parks under this.

I'm not going to buy and read a 500 page book, but there's some more information here:
https://sites.google.com/view/suburbanization/how-montgomery-county-grew

It doesn't really address why parks fell under the commission, as opposed to the county. Apparently E. Brooke Lee fought to put it under the commission, as opposed to the respective counties. Again, it seems like a bad idea to create unelected, and nearly unaccountable, leaders responsible for that.

That's a shame, because it's a good book. You can borrow it from the library, when the library opens again.

Meanwhile, why is Parks part of M-NCPPC? Because parks are part of land-use planning. M-NCPPC owns a lot of land, especially in the stream valleys. That didn't just somehow randomly happen. It was part of the suburban development of Montgomery County.

If you're serious, and it's not as absurdly dry as the topic sounds, then I'll get it.

From the reading I've been able to do, it sounds like Montgomery County wanted to manage its own parks, but Brooke Lee fought it. I could get why *establishing* parks would be part of the development/planning process, but in other places don't the parks ultimately get managed by a municipal or county agency?

It's not; it's very readable. There might be parts that tell you more than you wanted to know, but on the whole, it's an outstanding explanation of the history of Montgomery County land use.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here. I started skimming through that "Suburb, PanningPolitics and the Public Interest" book.

Maybe it will be more obvious if I read the thing cover-to-cover, but a quick search for terms suggests I'm not going to get a clear answer on why Brook Lee apparently fought to keep planning and parks outside of County government.

Surburb Excerpt wrote:
The absence of a plan for the development of a Montgomery County was a significant issue in the campaign for a home rule charter. After Brook Lee frustrated its efforts to incorporate the park and planning functions into county government, the first Charter Council created a seperate Upper Montgomery County Planning Commission to prepare plans for areas outside the Maryland-National Capital Park and Planning Commission district.

I'll keep reading, from the beginning this time, but can you shed any light on this?

I don't remember specifically, but in the 1920s, there was a general belief among some groups that professionals would run local government better than elected people. The 1920s were the era of city managers, too. And of zoning, which by its nature allows some land uses and forbids others, based on beliefs about what (and who) should go where.

The elected representatives (now the county council, previously the county commissioners) do have control over the Montgomery County part of M-NCPPC; they appoint the Planning Board commissioners and Planning Board chairperson, they provide the budget for Park & Planning, and they adopt master plans and the zoning code.

[Anonymous]

Per the MoCo parks twitter account this morning:

We have received a response from the public health office, and we are reviewing that now. Again, thank you for your patience. Closing then reopening more than 400 parks with multiple amenities takes some time. And, we want to ensure your safety in those plans.

So, at least there's movement??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Per the MoCo parks twitter account this morning:

We have received a response from the public health office, and we are reviewing that now. Again, thank you for your patience. Closing then reopening more than 400 parks with multiple amenities takes some time. And, we want to ensure your safety in those plans.

So, at least there's movement??

Still no real update, though. I just talked to someone at their public information line and was told they'd be opening "soon." But when I asked what "soon" meant, they said they'd probably make an announcement about their plans next week, with playgrounds not opening until until 1-2 weeks after the announcement. But, they caveated that with a statement that they haven't been involved in the discussions going on.

They indicated that the decision is being made by their own health advisors, who are apparently separate from the county's health department.

[Anonymous]

They're starting to open on Monday, although they're warning it's going to take a couple weeks to get fences down. I'm sure community members could be happy to help with that job.