USMNT vs Ecuador Game Thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing didn't have to have 20 posts either. I would have made my little comment and moved on, but being told in a way or another to shut up will definitely give me something to say.

SHUT UP AND MOVE ON

Why are you so defensive? Do you work for them? I watched the game, I've seen US Soccer and the entire system evolve. Shout and stomp your feet all you want. Then let the adults speak.

No i do not work for them but Rondos are not outlawed. Find a club that meets your kids training needs and be happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing didn't have to have 20 posts either. I would have made my little comment and moved on, but being told in a way or another to shut up will definitely give me something to say.

SHUT UP AND MOVE ON

Why are you so defensive? Do you work for them? I watched the game, I've seen US Soccer and the entire system evolve. Shout and stomp your feet all you want. Then let the adults speak.

No i do not work for them but Rondos are not outlawed. Find a club that meets your kids training needs and be happy.

What makes you think I'm not happy? Did rondos become the definition of happiness and good soccer? Good lord, get a grip. I think the DA is a fantastic next step. It was long overdue. I played in the first travel club in my area back in the day, and US Soccer has absolutely grown soccer in America in every way.

Rondos are just tool, so now you can stop being one and quit pouting. It's not that big a dream. And I agree with the directional comment. It they aren't, then it is just monkey in the middle in so many ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rondos can be directional and tactical. I think people hear the word “rondo” and think it’s just monkey in the middle.

Right, it sounds like what US Soccer wants is to eliminate lazy Rondo drills. That drills must have a focused purpose.

Drills that have a focused purpose can be lazily coached too. It seems we agree for the most part. I don’t get how this conversation elicits such a strong response from others though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rondos can be directional and tactical. I think people hear the word “rondo” and think it’s just monkey in the middle.

Right, it sounds like what US Soccer wants is to eliminate lazy Rondo drills. That drills must have a focused purpose.

Except there are numerous reports from coaches from different states from the East coast to the West coast that USSF instructors at the coaching courses tell coaches that they will fail the course if they try to use rondos. Either this boneheaded approach comes from the federation or from the people that the USSF picked to teach their coaching courses. Either way, it does not look good for the USSF.

Well, after all, who can possibly argue with "numerous reports" :/

Numerous reports, brought to you by an anonymous source on DCUM soccer forum.

What could possibly go wrong here.

I've read the same reports from many coaches on twitter, non- anonymous accounts.

I don't think US Soccer probably intended to start a "war on rondos", but that was definitely the effect, at least for a while, especially at the D level. I think more experienced coaches basically ignored it. By now it seems like US Soccer has clarified its message to instructors cause I haven't read any reports like that lately.

Berhalter obviously uses romdos. So does Tab Ramos. As previously mentioned, most of the DAs include different types of rondos into their training. Also as previously mentioned, sometimes these are directional, sometimes not, depending on the purpose and intent. Not doing rondos is not the problem for US Soccer.

Moving on, ... I like what Berhalter is doing so far, but Ecuador sitting back like they did was not a real good test. If we can build out of the back and control possession tonight against Chile that will be very encouraging.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for the above, but if you are the OP of the original rondo posts then that doesn’t match the original message. Presuming you aren’t, then you surely agree that the original line of discussion was deceptive and meant to confuse people who aren’t familiar with the truth here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rondos can be directional and tactical. I think people hear the word “rondo” and think it’s just monkey in the middle.

Right, it sounds like what US Soccer wants is to eliminate lazy Rondo drills. That drills must have a focused purpose.

Except there are numerous reports from coaches from different states from the East coast to the West coast that USSF instructors at the coaching courses tell coaches that they will fail the course if they try to use rondos. Either this boneheaded approach comes from the federation or from the people that the USSF picked to teach their coaching courses. Either way, it does not look good for the USSF.

Well, after all, who can possibly argue with "numerous reports" :/

Numerous reports, brought to you by an anonymous source on DCUM soccer forum.

What could possibly go wrong here.

I've read the same reports from many coaches on twitter, non- anonymous accounts.

I don't think US Soccer probably intended to start a "war on rondos", but that was definitely the effect, at least for a while, especially at the D level. I think more experienced coaches basically ignored it. By now it seems like US Soccer has clarified its message to instructors cause I haven't read any reports like that lately.

Berhalter obviously uses romdos. So does Tab Ramos. As previously mentioned, most of the DAs include different types of rondos into their training. Also as previously mentioned, sometimes these are directional, sometimes not, depending on the purpose and intent. Not doing rondos is not the problem for US Soccer.

Moving on, ... I like what Berhalter is doing so far, but Ecuador sitting back like they did was not a real good test. If we can build out of the back and control possession tonight against Chile that will be very encouraging.

Thank you for your post. That was a good transition into tonight's game. I wonder if he will make any strategical changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The idea that our best players are switching from soccer to other sports in their teenage years seems to be one of those things that just gets tossed out there and often repeated even though it has no basis in reality.

Seriously, how many boys do any of you know who had legit pro potential - or even lets just say they were one of the most talented players on a top bracket level team at U9-U11, or DA team at U12-U13 - but then they gave it all up and are now playing football or basketball?

Nationally, I can think of O'Dell Beckham Jr, but that's about it. But locally - and I've been around the youth soccer scene in the DMV for over 15 years - I can't think of a single player who was a truly a standout at soccer going into their teenage years and then quit to play another sport.

I can think of quite a few kids who were great all-around athletes who did make the switch from soccer to play something else, but none of them were among the best of the best in soccer. Most of them switched to a sport where their raw athleticism would give them more of an advantage, after it became clear to them that they were never going to be a star in soccer because they didn't have the skill level of the kids who lived with a ball at their feat all the time.

Here is some evidence that elite athletes do switch out of soccer. First are two area players, and the last is a hodgepodge of nfl players. You can believe it or not. You can downplay it if you want. Up to you to leave your head in the sand. It is not coaching and it is not “rondos” that make the USMNT fail, it is the talent. The US women win and have the same coaching philosophies and USSF system, training, etc., yet they win. Why? Talent. Plain and simple.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Crittenden

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Pride

https://www.stack.com/a/9-nfl-stars-who-grew-up-playing-soccer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rondos can be directional and tactical. I think people hear the word “rondo” and think it’s just monkey in the middle.

Right, it sounds like what US Soccer wants is to eliminate lazy Rondo drills. That drills must have a focused purpose.

Except there are numerous reports from coaches from different states from the East coast to the West coast that USSF instructors at the coaching courses tell coaches that they will fail the course if they try to use rondos. Either this boneheaded approach comes from the federation or from the people that the USSF picked to teach their coaching courses. Either way, it does not look good for the USSF.

Well, after all, who can possibly argue with "numerous reports" :/

Numerous reports, brought to you by an anonymous source on DCUM soccer forum.

What could possibly go wrong here.

I've read the same reports from many coaches on twitter, non- anonymous accounts.

I don't think US Soccer probably intended to start a "war on rondos", but that was definitely the effect, at least for a while, especially at the D level. I think more experienced coaches basically ignored it. By now it seems like US Soccer has clarified its message to instructors cause I haven't read any reports like that lately.

Berhalter obviously uses romdos. So does Tab Ramos. As previously mentioned, most of the DAs include different types of rondos into their training. Also as previously mentioned, sometimes these are directional, sometimes not, depending on the purpose and intent. Not doing rondos is not the problem for US Soccer.

Moving on, ... I like what Berhalter is doing so far, but Ecuador sitting back like they did was not a real good test. If we can build out of the back and control possession tonight against Chile that will be very encouraging.

Thank you for your post. That was a good transition into tonight's game. I wonder if he will make any strategical changes.

Berhalter seems to have a good theoretical knowledge of the game, but I worry about the fact that he's never competed at this level as a coach. Tonight could be the biggest test he's ever faced. Also a good chance to compare him to what might have been, after seeing how Tata Martino's new approach with Mexico worked.

[Anonymous]

USMNT can't beat Ecuador or Egypt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea that our best players are switching from soccer to other sports in their teenage years seems to be one of those things that just gets tossed out there and often repeated even though it has no basis in reality.

Seriously, how many boys do any of you know who had legit pro potential - or even lets just say they were one of the most talented players on a top bracket level team at U9-U11, or DA team at U12-U13 - but then they gave it all up and are now playing football or basketball?

Nationally, I can think of O'Dell Beckham Jr, but that's about it. But locally - and I've been around the youth soccer scene in the DMV for over 15 years - I can't think of a single player who was a truly a standout at soccer going into their teenage years and then quit to play another sport.

I can think of quite a few kids who were great all-around athletes who did make the switch from soccer to play something else, but none of them were among the best of the best in soccer. Most of them switched to a sport where their raw athleticism would give them more of an advantage, after it became clear to them that they were never going to be a star in soccer because they didn't have the skill level of the kids who lived with a ball at their feat all the time.

Here is some evidence that elite athletes do switch out of soccer. First are two area players, and the last is a hodgepodge of nfl players. You can believe it or not. You can downplay it if you want. Up to you to leave your head in the sand. It is not coaching and it is not “rondos” that make the USMNT fail, it is the talent. The US women win and have the same coaching philosophies and USSF system, training, etc., yet they win. Why? Talent. Plain and simple.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Crittenden

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Pride

https://www.stack.com/a/9-nfl-stars-who-grew-up-playing-soccer

The US has an athletic talent pool that's big enough to go around for all sports. USSF just doesn't know WTF to do with them. The difference between men and women is women don't have the distraction of MLS, which leads USSF around like a dog on a leash, even though the two groups have divergent interests. USSF should be in the business of developing the best American players, not in serving as MLS' promotional arm. If MLS can't develop the kind of players we need, USSF should provide greater financial support to independent US clubs that can (and they've got plenty of money to do that!) or even invite European clubs to open academies in the US to develop players through their own systems -- we can start with American-owned teams like Liverpool and AC Milan.

[Anonymous]

Do keep in mind that Sampaoli/Pizzi are not running the Chilean national team anymore, and most of their golden generation is now in the twilight of their careers. Should be a good test regardless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea that our best players are switching from soccer to other sports in their teenage years seems to be one of those things that just gets tossed out there and often repeated even though it has no basis in reality.

Seriously, how many boys do any of you know who had legit pro potential - or even lets just say they were one of the most talented players on a top bracket level team at U9-U11, or DA team at U12-U13 - but then they gave it all up and are now playing football or basketball?

Nationally, I can think of O'Dell Beckham Jr, but that's about it. But locally - and I've been around the youth soccer scene in the DMV for over 15 years - I can't think of a single player who was a truly a standout at soccer going into their teenage years and then quit to play another sport.

I can think of quite a few kids who were great all-around athletes who did make the switch from soccer to play something else, but none of them were among the best of the best in soccer. Most of them switched to a sport where their raw athleticism would give them more of an advantage, after it became clear to them that they were never going to be a star in soccer because they didn't have the skill level of the kids who lived with a ball at their feat all the time.

Here is some evidence that elite athletes do switch out of soccer. First are two area players, and the last is a hodgepodge of nfl players. You can believe it or not. You can downplay it if you want. Up to you to leave your head in the sand. It is not coaching and it is not “rondos” that make the USMNT fail, it is the talent. The US women win and have the same coaching philosophies and USSF system, training, etc., yet they win. Why? Talent. Plain and simple.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Crittenden

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Pride

https://www.stack.com/a/9-nfl-stars-who-grew-up-playing-soccer

Regarding the NFL stars:
Suh's mother shot that idea down. Suh only gave up soccer after he had a massive growth spurt in the eighth grade

Umm, yeah, Suh "chose football over soccer" SMH

OBJ

"My coach was pushing to try and get me on the national team and try out. At that age, you're 13, 14 years old, you know that to make it big in soccer you are probably going to have to go overseas.

His coach pushed to get him on the National Team. Apparently the US Soccer felt different. There is no proof that OBJ was ever scouted other than his coach pushed for it. Well, my mom thinks I'm the prettiest too.

Chad Johnson

For me, it was soccer. And as I got older (and) into high school, my grandma sat me down and we thought about longevity and a professional career, then the right sport would be football. So I switched over and focused on football,"

Translation: you're better at football, I'm pretty sure the career lifespan of a pro soccer player is higher than that of a NFL player.

Wes Welker

"I really feel that (soccer has) helped with my footwork, getting in and out of breaks, and it seems like I can take a bunch of little steps in a very quick amount of time," Welker told Boston.com in 2009. "Your feet get put in some awkward positions in football, but I'm sort of used to that from playing soccer, from moving the ball around. I definitely think that's a big part of what has made me successful in the NFL."

Again, nothing that says how good a player he was, just that he played and how the game of soccer helped football.

I get what you are trying to get at but news flash, "Pro athlete tuned down a sport AS A KID to focus on the sport they are good at and passionate about.

Nothing in these descriptions said that these players were forced to choose between say playing in the MLS or the NFL. There are only a handful of Multi Sport pro athletes who had legitimate shots at going pro in another sport:

John Elway, NFL and MLB
Bo Jackson, actually played NFL and MLB. Only player to truly excel at both sports.
Dieon Sanders, played both NFL and MLB
Russell Wilson, NFL and was scouted for MLB
Tony Romo. NFL and currently working on his PGA card.

But in general the list isn't very long and there are others, mostly QB's who are being scouted to be pitchers.

Often times the sport actually chooses the player. John Elway could have pitched for the Yankees but deep down he knew his skill set was better suited for football. had he gone the Pro baseball route he likely would have had a much shorter career and not a HOF career as he had in football.

[Anonymous]

I agree with that. The players that chose other sports instead of soccer, are/were better in those particular sports than in soccer.

[Anonymous]

Someone here sure has a lot invested in the notion that the USSF gets nothing right, culture and economics play no role in the state of the USMNT, and that the best soccer talent in the “athletic” US subpopulation is encouraged to stay with soccer through maturation. It’s funny because all of the counter-arguments to the notions above have credible support. What are your qualifications to make the above claims credibly?

[Anonymous]

How do you take a discussion about specific things being discussed that the USSF could be doing better, and land at the notion that the USSF gets nothing right? I don’t think anyone here’s made such a broad statement.