Are option schools in Arlington reducing or exacerbating FARMS distribution

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Include ATS in closing the gap too.

SOL pass rates for ED students at ATS have been declining over the past few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Include ATS in closing the gap too.

SOL pass rates for ED students at ATS have been declining over the past few years.

And again, self-selecting cohort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Include ATS in closing the gap too.

SOL pass rates for ED students at ATS have been declining over the past few years.

Looked at the numbers and in 2015 and 2016 ED students actually performed better than the overall student population in math, getting a 100% pass rate vs 98% from the student body. English was the same in 2015. Looks like numbers went down a bit in 2017 and 2018. Still over 91% pass rate for ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Include ATS in closing the gap too.

SOL pass rates for ED students at ATS have been declining over the past few years.

Looked at the numbers and in 2015 and 2016 ED students actually performed better than the overall student population in math, getting a 100% pass rate vs 98% from the student body. English was the same in 2015. Looks like numbers went down a bit in 2017 and 2018. Still over 91% pass rate for ED.

Huh? The math pass rates in 2015 were 96% for the whole school and 92% for ED students, and in 2016 they were 98% for the whole school and 89% for ED students. Reading performance in 2015 was 98% for the whole school and 94% for ED students. Those are great numbers, but ED students are not out-performing non-ED students and no group is getting 100% pass rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Include ATS in closing the gap too.

SOL pass rates for ED students at ATS have been declining over the past few years.

Looked at the numbers and in 2015 and 2016 ED students actually performed better than the overall student population in math, getting a 100% pass rate vs 98% from the student body. English was the same in 2015. Looks like numbers went down a bit in 2017 and 2018. Still over 91% pass rate for ED.

Huh? The math pass rates in 2015 were 96% for the whole school and 92% for ED students, and in 2016 they were 98% for the whole school and 89% for ED students. Reading performance in 2015 was 98% for the whole school and 94% for ED students. Those are great numbers, but ED students are not out-performing non-ED students and no group is getting 100% pass rates.

Interesting. I am looking at the numbers on Schoolquality.virginia.gov

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Include ATS in closing the gap too.

SOL pass rates for ED students at ATS have been declining over the past few years.

Looked at the numbers and in 2015 and 2016 ED students actually performed better than the overall student population in math, getting a 100% pass rate vs 98% from the student body. English was the same in 2015. Looks like numbers went down a bit in 2017 and 2018. Still over 91% pass rate for ED.

Huh? The math pass rates in 2015 were 96% for the whole school and 92% for ED students, and in 2016 they were 98% for the whole school and 89% for ED students. Reading performance in 2015 was 98% for the whole school and 94% for ED students. Those are great numbers, but ED students are not out-performing non-ED students and no group is getting 100% pass rates.

Interesting. I am looking at the numbers on Schoolquality.virginia.gov

So am I: http://schoolquality.virginia.gov/schools/arlington-traditional#fndtn-desktopTabs-assessments

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Include ATS in closing the gap too.

SOL pass rates for ED students at ATS have been declining over the past few years.

Looked at the numbers and in 2015 and 2016 ED students actually performed better than the overall student population in math, getting a 100% pass rate vs 98% from the student body. English was the same in 2015. Looks like numbers went down a bit in 2017 and 2018. Still over 91% pass rate for ED.

Huh? The math pass rates in 2015 were 96% for the whole school and 92% for ED students, and in 2016 they were 98% for the whole school and 89% for ED students. Reading performance in 2015 was 98% for the whole school and 94% for ED students. Those are great numbers, but ED students are not out-performing non-ED students and no group is getting 100% pass rates.

Interesting. I am looking at the numbers on Schoolquality.virginia.gov

I think I see what you're looking at, is it the English Academic Achievement bars on the Accreditation tab? That doesn't measure how many students pass, it measures both how many pass and how many didn't pass but who made significant improvement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Include ATS in closing the gap too.

SOL pass rates for ED students at ATS have been declining over the past few years.

Looked at the numbers and in 2015 and 2016 ED students actually performed better than the overall student population in math, getting a 100% pass rate vs 98% from the student body. English was the same in 2015. Looks like numbers went down a bit in 2017 and 2018. Still over 91% pass rate for ED.

Huh? The math pass rates in 2015 were 96% for the whole school and 92% for ED students, and in 2016 they were 98% for the whole school and 89% for ED students. Reading performance in 2015 was 98% for the whole school and 94% for ED students. Those are great numbers, but ED students are not out-performing non-ED students and no group is getting 100% pass rates.

Interesting. I am looking at the numbers on Schoolquality.virginia.gov

So am I: http://schoolquality.virginia.gov/schools/arlington-traditional#fndtn-desktopTabs-assessments

Http://schoolwuality.virginia.gov/schools/Arlington-traditional

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Include ATS in closing the gap too.

SOL pass rates for ED students at ATS have been declining over the past few years.

Looked at the numbers and in 2015 and 2016 ED students actually performed better than the overall student population in math, getting a 100% pass rate vs 98% from the student body. English was the same in 2015. Looks like numbers went down a bit in 2017 and 2018. Still over 91% pass rate for ED.

Huh? The math pass rates in 2015 were 96% for the whole school and 92% for ED students, and in 2016 they were 98% for the whole school and 89% for ED students. Reading performance in 2015 was 98% for the whole school and 94% for ED students. Those are great numbers, but ED students are not out-performing non-ED students and no group is getting 100% pass rates.

Interesting. I am looking at the numbers on Schoolquality.virginia.gov

I think I see what you're looking at, is it the English Academic Achievement bars on the Accreditation tab? That doesn't measure how many students pass, it measures both how many pass and how many didn't pass but who made significant improvement.

You are right. It relates to Accreditation.

[Anonymous]

None of these ATS stats tell us anything about whether the curriculum is truly better at ATS because none of it controls for things like level of parental engagement (which is likely to be higher for the self-selecting cohort), how disadvantaged the ED students are (it’s a range, not a yes/no, and given where ATS is I doubt they’re pulling many of the most impoverished students in SA), etc. Given all of the non-curriculum considerations, I would be shocked if ATS didn’t have the highest test scores among APS elementaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Include ATS in closing the gap too.

SOL pass rates for ED students at ATS have been declining over the past few years.

And again, self-selecting cohort.

Technically, yes; but not quite the same as someone choosing immersion or Campbell. They attended VPI and opted to stay. They may well have preferred to stay at whatever school their VPI class was in, already being familiar with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Include ATS in closing the gap too.

SOL pass rates for ED students at ATS have been declining over the past few years.

And again, self-selecting cohort.

Technically, yes; but not quite the same as someone choosing immersion or Campbell. They attended VPI and opted to stay. They may well have preferred to stay at whatever school their VPI class was in, already being familiar with it.

um- that is exactly how they go into immersion and Campbell as well. They choose those schools for VPI instead of their neighborhood VPI program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Include ATS in closing the gap too.

SOL pass rates for ED students at ATS have been declining over the past few years.

And again, self-selecting cohort.

Technically, yes; but not quite the same as someone choosing immersion or Campbell. They attended VPI and opted to stay. They may well have preferred to stay at whatever school their VPI class was in, already being familiar with it.

This. Also, you can't use this most recent year's test scores to see a trend because for the first time there were no alternate tests given for ELL students. In Arlington there is quite a bit of overlap between ELL and ED students. All Title 1 schools saw huge drops in test scores this year as a result. That's why I didn't include this most recent year's scores when noting that Campbell appears to be making great strides, and also noted that it's likely not as self-selecting a cohort. I think both ATS and Campbell and the Immersion schools encourage and support parental participation, perhaps in a more "aggressive" way than neighborhood schools? Plus most of the ED kids at option schools have had the benefit of VPI Pre-K. I don't know whether that's true at the neighborhood schools. Basically, I don't think it's as simple or to be dismissed as easily as "it's a self-selecting cohort."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Include ATS in closing the gap too.

SOL pass rates for ED students at ATS have been declining over the past few years.

And again, self-selecting cohort.

Technically, yes; but not quite the same as someone choosing immersion or Campbell. They attended VPI and opted to stay. They may well have preferred to stay at whatever school their VPI class was in, already being familiar with it.

This. Also, you can't use this most recent year's test scores to see a trend because for the first time there were no alternate tests given for ELL students. In Arlington there is quite a bit of overlap between ELL and ED students. All Title 1 schools saw huge drops in test scores this year as a result. That's why I didn't include this most recent year's scores when noting that Campbell appears to be making great strides, and also noted that it's likely not as self-selecting a cohort. I think both ATS and Campbell and the Immersion schools encourage and support parental participation, perhaps in a more "aggressive" way than neighborhood schools? Plus most of the ED kids at option schools have had the benefit of VPI Pre-K. I don't know whether that's true at the neighborhood schools. Basically, I don't think it's as simple or to be dismissed as easily as "it's a self-selecting cohort."

No one ever said "self-selecting cohort" was the only factor, where this whole conversation started was disputing that, to the extent option schools have narrowed the performance gap, we can't blindly assume that it's because the curriculum of the option schools is superior. "Self-selection cohort" was offered as a meaningful alternative explanation, but there is a long list of potential contributing factors, some of which are within the school's control and some of which are not. I think there's a good chance high-quality pre-k is also a significant contributing factor, but even there, the option schools are going to have a higher percentage of ED students who had high-qualify pre-k via VPI than the neighborhood schools because that's precisely how so many of the ED students get into those option programs in the first place. But again, that means nothing about the efficacy of option school curricula.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Include ATS in closing the gap too.

SOL pass rates for ED students at ATS have been declining over the past few years.

And again, self-selecting cohort.

Technically, yes; but not quite the same as someone choosing immersion or Campbell. They attended VPI and opted to stay. They may well have preferred to stay at whatever school their VPI class was in, already being familiar with it.

This. Also, you can't use this most recent year's test scores to see a trend because for the first time there were no alternate tests given for ELL students. In Arlington there is quite a bit of overlap between ELL and ED students. All Title 1 schools saw huge drops in test scores this year as a result. That's why I didn't include this most recent year's scores when noting that Campbell appears to be making great strides, and also noted that it's likely not as self-selecting a cohort. I think both ATS and Campbell and the Immersion schools encourage and support parental participation, perhaps in a more "aggressive" way than neighborhood schools? Plus most of the ED kids at option schools have had the benefit of VPI Pre-K. I don't know whether that's true at the neighborhood schools. Basically, I don't think it's as simple or to be dismissed as easily as "it's a self-selecting cohort."

No one ever said "self-selecting cohort" was the only factor, where this whole conversation started was disputing that, to the extent option schools have narrowed the performance gap, we can't blindly assume that it's because the curriculum of the option schools is superior. "Self-selection cohort" was offered as a meaningful alternative explanation, but there is a long list of potential contributing factors, some of which are within the school's control and some of which are not. I think there's a good chance high-quality pre-k is also a significant contributing factor, but even there, the option schools are going to have a higher percentage of ED students who had high-qualify pre-k via VPI than the neighborhood schools because that's precisely how so many of the ED students get into those option programs in the first place. But again, that means nothing about the efficacy of option school curricula.

the high quality pre-k is an interesting point. My child was a beneficiary of a VPI class at an option school. It was truly fantastic. The teacher was one of the best I've ever seen.