Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly no.

In general, people who spend a lot make a lot and are saving a lot.

Poorer people like to think to otherwise make themselves feel better for missing out ("So and so went on an exotic vacation but I bet they have no savings") but that doesn't make it true.

IME (admittedly anecdotal but so, it would seem, is yours), this is not true. Comfortably MC people (families with incomes of around $100K with two college-educated earners) are the most likely I've seen to do these kinds of things. My SIL is a case in point...maybe not exotic vacations, but certainly things like remodels or big screen TVs.

Actualy poor people might seem like they have poor money-management skills, but it's because it actually takes some money to be wise about money. My parents have a handyman who is always paying impound fees on his car. You can say it's irresponsible of him to park illegally, but the reality is that he's got no legal place to park anywhere close to where he lives. His "luxury" might be eating a grocery store steak (i.e. still under $10) once in a month or so...not taking exotic vacations.

I had business partner that made 500K/year and was maxed out of a half a dozen credit cards. I saw his country club bill once on his desk - 15K/mo! For some people, the dollars just slip through their fingers no matter how much they make. You should never look at outward appearances of wealth like cars, vacations, etc, and assume it means financial security. You can be one missed paycheck away from disaster no matter how much you make.

[Anonymous]

Yes, several. I know someone who has an insane amount of student debt, cc debt, etc. (probably over 500k in debt)... but has the Birkin, the Rolexes, the apartment in Manhattan, goes out all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One way to look at this - how many people do you know in their late 50’s/60’s who are still working high-stress jobs with kids already graduated from college? I know young people always say they love their work but I don’t know anyone in their late 50’s/60’s who is not looking forward to retirement or at least slowing down. If you are already making a high salary in your late 20’s/30’s, you should be able to plan well enough to have more options when you are older.

Are you kidding? My boss is 71, will not make any commitments to retiring. And it's not because of $$. This job is boss's life.

There are at least a dozen people at my organization 65 and up who seemingly have no plans to retire. Because working is what defines their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly no.

In general, people who spend a lot make a lot and are saving a lot.

Poorer people like to think to otherwise make themselves feel better for missing out ("So and so went on an exotic vacation but I bet they have no savings") but that doesn't make it true.

I know of a family that was making good money (highly educated professionals) but spending it too freely and bought too much of a house. At one point they had to borrow about $80k from family member so as not to lose the house (family member is friend of mine).

Also my best friend and spouse spend too much money, to keep up with the Joneses. They make upwards of $250k, but have no savings because they've sunk it all into home additions, improvement, vacation house they are underwater on, etc. Friend feels guilty but hasn't put a stop to it. They are late 40s, kids are a few years away from college, and don't know what will happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to look at this - how many people do you know in their late 50’s/60’s who are still working high-stress jobs with kids already graduated from college? I know young people always say they love their work but I don’t know anyone in their late 50’s/60’s who is not looking forward to retirement or at least slowing down. If you are already making a high salary in your late 20’s/30’s, you should be able to plan well enough to have more options when you are older.

Are you kidding? My boss is 71, will not make any commitments to retiring. And it's not because of $$. This job is boss's life.

There are at least a dozen people at my organization 65 and up who seemingly have no plans to retire. Because working is what defines their lives.

+1. I have a close family friend who has been a Biglaw (V10) partner for the last 25 years and he lives, relatively speaking, not that high on the hog. He almost certainly has tens of millions of dollars at this point and financially could retire if he were so inclined.

[Anonymous]

^ Some biglaw partners and the like don't retire bc it's their entire identity. My firm has a mandatory age 65 retirement which they do enforce, however if you really must stay -- you can stay BUT be stripped of partnership and be counsel on a salary. It really is a step down as you lose the profit %, you lose voting rights and you become a salaried employee. Some people will do it bc they don't want to sit home at 65, they want to finish out their existing cases over the next yr or two, and they want to go part-time ish. Those folks end up easing out by age 67 or 68. The truly sad ones are the ones who are 75 and STILL toiling away as counsel because they just WILL NOT let go.

But for every 1 I know that can't retire because they can't let go, I know 1 who can't retire because they are supporting adult children. An unusual % of partners I know (and maybe this is just my firm??) have daughters who have gone into majors that just don't generate $$, have not yet locked down a husband (or have locked one down who makes 100k which isn't affording the DD the lifestyle in which she was raised), and NYC is expensive -- so dad keeps on working and supplementing the young couple's income, renting them the gorgeous NYC apartment, paying their grandkids' 40k/yr preschool etc. That scenario always surprises me bc I assume those kinds of people have trusts for their kids/grandkids -- but lots of them don't want the kids to start eating away the trusts, so they cash flow the expenses with the thought that the kids will touch the trust when dad can no longer work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to look at this - how many people do you know in their late 50’s/60’s who are still working high-stress jobs with kids already graduated from college? I know young people always say they love their work but I don’t know anyone in their late 50’s/60’s who is not looking forward to retirement or at least slowing down. If you are already making a high salary in your late 20’s/30’s, you should be able to plan well enough to have more options when you are older.

Are you kidding? My boss is 71, will not make any commitments to retiring. And it's not because of $$. This job is boss's life.

There are at least a dozen people at my organization 65 and up who seemingly have no plans to retire. Because working is what defines their lives.

I really feel sorry for people who feel that way and cling on. So sad and pathetic. You know the old saying about how noone wishes they worked more st their death bed.

[Anonymous]

I think most people don’t know how to budget their money until it’s too late.

I know of two upper couples like this. The rest I know for a fact are middle to lower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to look at this - how many people do you know in their late 50’s/60’s who are still working high-stress jobs with kids already graduated from college? I know young people always say they love their work but I don’t know anyone in their late 50’s/60’s who is not looking forward to retirement or at least slowing down. If you are already making a high salary in your late 20’s/30’s, you should be able to plan well enough to have more options when you are older.

Are you kidding? My boss is 71, will not make any commitments to retiring. And it's not because of $$. This job is boss's life.

There are at least a dozen people at my organization 65 and up who seemingly have no plans to retire. Because working is what defines their lives.

+1. I have a close family friend who has been a Biglaw (V10) partner for the last 25 years and he lives, relatively speaking, not that high on the hog. He almost certainly has tens of millions of dollars at this point and financially could retire if he were so inclined.

This this this! My father is this person. He says retirement is where you go to die. I know for a fact he is sitting on a mountain of money and he has no problem spending it. He has a old school generous military pension and when he retired from the military embarked on a 2nd career. He's 70.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to look at this - how many people do you know in their late 50’s/60’s who are still working high-stress jobs with kids already graduated from college? I know young people always say they love their work but I don’t know anyone in their late 50’s/60’s who is not looking forward to retirement or at least slowing down. If you are already making a high salary in your late 20’s/30’s, you should be able to plan well enough to have more options when you are older.

Are you kidding? My boss is 71, will not make any commitments to retiring. And it's not because of $$. This job is boss's life.

There are at least a dozen people at my organization 65 and up who seemingly have no plans to retire. Because working is what defines their lives.

I really feel sorry for people who feel that way and cling on. So sad and pathetic. You know the old saying about how noone wishes they worked more st their death bed.

That's simply not true. There are a few lucky people who absolutely love their work. I worked with a guy who retired and then came back after 18 months. He said he really missed the job and missed being around young energetic people and that it sucked being surrounded by old people like himself. He wasnt sad and pathetic. Hea a geeat guy amd full of enerny and a positive attitude . We happily hired him back

[Anonymous]

I’m not in tons of debt or anything but my savings is very, very low in relation to my HHI- just $20k in savings (although $200k in retirement- still probably lower than it should be- we are 33.) It’s due to draining our savings for a down payment three years ago, plus paying double daycare during that time. Those are the big hits- and daycare payment will be cut in half nex year when my oldest goes to K but o be honest it’s also based on us spending on covenience- dinners out or lunches at work when we are too busy and/or disorganized to make food. Other than that we don’t spend a lot, but it’s my resolution to cut way back on convenience spending in 2018- it’s working out pretty well so far.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know any. We are early 40’s and friends are rapidly scooping up second and third homes- we vacation often and have kids in privates, belong to country clubs etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BTW it feels so good to tell strangers that I have a bazillion dollars in mortgage debt and I have no intention of fully paying for college. It's so refreshing because if I said this in real life people would recoil.

Lol me too sister!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not in tons of debt or anything but my savings is very, very low in relation to my HHI- just $20k in savings (although $200k in retirement- still probably lower than it should be- we are 33.) It’s due to draining our savings for a down payment three years ago, plus paying double daycare during that time. Those are the big hits- and daycare payment will be cut in half nex year when my oldest goes to K but o be honest it’s also based on us spending on covenience- dinners out or lunches at work when we are too busy and/or disorganized to make food. Other than that we don’t spend a lot, but it’s my resolution to cut way back on convenience spending in 2018- it’s working out pretty well so far.

We are exactly the same. It's okay to have tough years. It won't last forever.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if people think we live above our means. We used to have HHI of about 400-500k but it has gone up substantially. Now $1.5-2m. We used to have a mortgage and student loans. Now we have no debt and much more income. Our investments have also been doing well. Even dh’s crypto currency he bought for fun has earned enough to pay for our frivolous spending.

DH likes cars and tech gadgets. I like bags and travel.