HB Admissions are rigged

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB is for the connected, and once you are in the HB ecosystem you realize how classist it is when the UMC whites in all AP classes don't associate with the very few minorities that are let in. The elitist ATS to HB route is steeped in conspiracy.

ATS to HB is such a joke. Those schools could not be more different, so if one is such a great fit for your child, the other probably isn't. For some people, though, all that matters is exclusivity.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB is for the connected, and once you are in the HB ecosystem you realize how classist it is when the UMC whites in all AP classes don't associate with the very few minorities that are let in. The elitist ATS to HB route is steeped in conspiracy.

ATS to HB is such a joke. Those schools could not be more different, so if one is such a great fit for your child, the other probably isn't. For some people, though, all that matters is exclusivity.

+1

And yet, there a number of families, especially connected ones, who have all their children go from ATS to HB. So strange.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB is for the connected, and once you are in the HB ecosystem you realize how classist it is when the UMC whites in all AP classes don't associate with the very few minorities that are let in. The elitist ATS to HB route is steeped in conspiracy.

ATS to HB is such a joke. Those schools could not be more different, so if one is such a great fit for your child, the other probably isn't. For some people, though, all that matters is exclusivity.

I see people on this board say things like this a lot, and I'm sorry but it just betrays a lack of understanding of both schools, educational philosophies, and child development. The type of discipline that kids need in the early years is very different from what is needed later on in their educations. It's not a joke to decide that both schools have something positive to offer your child at different stages of his/her life.

Complain if you want that people shouldn't be able to win two different lotteries, but that's a different issue. Though, if you're going to be consistent in arguing that the schools are so different that an interest in both of them doesn't make sense, then you should probably also argue that you should be allowed to participate in only one of the lotteries. Whether your child gets in or not should be irrelevant, if your argument is only about the types of schools they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB is for the connected, and once you are in the HB ecosystem you realize how classist it is when the UMC whites in all AP classes don't associate with the very few minorities that are let in. The elitist ATS to HB route is steeped in conspiracy.

ATS to HB is such a joke. Those schools could not be more different, so if one is such a great fit for your child, the other probably isn't. For some people, though, all that matters is exclusivity.

I see people on this board say things like this a lot, and I'm sorry but it just betrays a lack of understanding of both schools, educational philosophies, and child development. The type of discipline that kids need in the early years is very different from what is needed later on in their educations. It's not a joke to decide that both schools have something positive to offer your child at different stages of his/her life.

Complain if you want that people shouldn't be able to win two different lotteries, but that's a different issue. Though, if you're going to be consistent in arguing that the schools are so different that an interest in both of them doesn't make sense, then you should probably also argue that you should be allowed to participate in only one of the lotteries. Whether your child gets in or not should be irrelevant, if your argument is only about the types of schools they are.

No. Just admit why you like those schools. You're not fooling anyone. It has NOTHING to do with child development or whether the particular school's philosophy is a good fit for a particular child or family. It's exclusivity and "prestige" test scores, with a side helping of a smaller setting (perhaps there is a correlation with the scores), and nothing more.

I have no issue with families applying to both lotteries. I just don't believe what you are selling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB is for the connected, and once you are in the HB ecosystem you realize how classist it is when the UMC whites in all AP classes don't associate with the very few minorities that are let in. The elitist ATS to HB route is steeped in conspiracy.

ATS to HB is such a joke. Those schools could not be more different, so if one is such a great fit for your child, the other probably isn't. For some people, though, all that matters is exclusivity.

I see people on this board say things like this a lot, and I'm sorry but it just betrays a lack of understanding of both schools, educational philosophies, and child development. The type of discipline that kids need in the early years is very different from what is needed later on in their educations. It's not a joke to decide that both schools have something positive to offer your child at different stages of his/her life.

Complain if you want that people shouldn't be able to win two different lotteries, but that's a different issue. Though, if you're going to be consistent in arguing that the schools are so different that an interest in both of them doesn't make sense, then you should probably also argue that you should be allowed to participate in only one of the lotteries. Whether your child gets in or not should be irrelevant, if your argument is only about the types of schools they are.

No. Just admit why you like those schools. You're not fooling anyone. It has NOTHING to do with child development or whether the particular school's philosophy is a good fit for a particular child or family. It's exclusivity and "prestige" test scores, with a side helping of a smaller setting (perhaps there is a correlation with the scores), and nothing more.

I have no issue with families applying to both lotteries. I just don't believe what you are selling.

Agree

And, yes, you shouldn't be able to "win" both lotteries.

[Anonymous]

We're at ATS. I'm not especially interested in HBW, but I know a few families who have gone on to HBW from ATS. My daughter does pretty well at ATS but she'd probably be a decent fit for HBW - she is less structured and more of a free thinker and would probably enjoy the unconventional nature of the school.

ATS isn't just about structure - it is a slightly smaller community of very involved parents who appreciate art, music and reading. (I imagine other schools in the county could say the exact same thing.) In our case, if we had just wanted high test scores, we could have gotten them at our home school, Discovery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB is for the connected, and once you are in the HB ecosystem you realize how classist it is when the UMC whites in all AP classes don't associate with the very few minorities that are let in. The elitist ATS to HB route is steeped in conspiracy.

ATS to HB is such a joke. Those schools could not be more different, so if one is such a great fit for your child, the other probably isn't. For some people, though, all that matters is exclusivity.

I see people on this board say things like this a lot, and I'm sorry but it just betrays a lack of understanding of both schools, educational philosophies, and child development. The type of discipline that kids need in the early years is very different from what is needed later on in their educations. It's not a joke to decide that both schools have something positive to offer your child at different stages of his/her life.

Complain if you want that people shouldn't be able to win two different lotteries, but that's a different issue. Though, if you're going to be consistent in arguing that the schools are so different that an interest in both of them doesn't make sense, then you should probably also argue that you should be allowed to participate in only one of the lotteries. Whether your child gets in or not should be irrelevant, if your argument is only about the types of schools they are.

No. Just admit why you like those schools. You're not fooling anyone. It has NOTHING to do with child development or whether the particular school's philosophy is a good fit for a particular child or family. It's exclusivity and "prestige" test scores, with a side helping of a smaller setting (perhaps there is a correlation with the scores), and nothing more.

I have no issue with families applying to both lotteries. I just don't believe what you are selling.

Luckily for me, I don't have to get you to buy it. I can believe what I believe, and you can believe what you want. I'm just pointing out the BS of posters who claim that their objections to people going to both schools is about school philosophy. To paraphrase your words, it has NOTHING to do with school philosophies. Your objection is to people who get into both schools. It's bitterness with a side helping of envy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB is for the connected, and once you are in the HB ecosystem you realize how classist it is when the UMC whites in all AP classes don't associate with the very few minorities that are let in. The elitist ATS to HB route is steeped in conspiracy.

ATS to HB is such a joke. Those schools could not be more different, so if one is such a great fit for your child, the other probably isn't. For some people, though, all that matters is exclusivity.

I see people on this board say things like this a lot, and I'm sorry but it just betrays a lack of understanding of both schools, educational philosophies, and child development. The type of discipline that kids need in the early years is very different from what is needed later on in their educations. It's not a joke to decide that both schools have something positive to offer your child at different stages of his/her life.

Complain if you want that people shouldn't be able to win two different lotteries, but that's a different issue. Though, if you're going to be consistent in arguing that the schools are so different that an interest in both of them doesn't make sense, then you should probably also argue that you should be allowed to participate in only one of the lotteries. Whether your child gets in or not should be irrelevant, if your argument is only about the types of schools they are.

No. Just admit why you like those schools. You're not fooling anyone. It has NOTHING to do with child development or whether the particular school's philosophy is a good fit for a particular child or family. It's exclusivity and "prestige" test scores, with a side helping of a smaller setting (perhaps there is a correlation with the scores), and nothing more.

I have no issue with families applying to both lotteries. I just don't believe what you are selling.

Luckily for me, I don't have to get you to buy it. I can believe what I believe, and you can believe what you want. I'm just pointing out the BS of posters who claim that their objections to people going to both schools is about school philosophy. To paraphrase your words, it has NOTHING to do with school philosophies. Your objection is to people who get into both schools. It's bitterness with a side helping of envy.

10:53 here. Just coming back to apologize. I don't like having people assume they know my true thoughts about something and I reacted badly. No need for either of us to be snotty. Only you know what's really on your mind and in your heart and only I know what's in mine. I'm sorry I reacted badly to your post.

[Anonymous]

This is why I wish APS would release the actual percentage/number of 5th graders applying to HB from each ES. My guess has always been that a higher proportion of ATS 5th graders may apply (compared to the proportion of 5th graders from the neighborhood ES). The ATS kids draw from all over the County and then are scattered to their home zones for middle school. The ATS kids are starting their friendships over, regardless of whether they go to HB or the home middle school. In contrast, many neighborhood ES kids may want to just stick with their existing friends through middle school and therefore not as many apply to HB--- I have heard this from quite a few parents in our neighborhood. This is just a theory... not sure why APS is so secretive about the HB admission pool data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why I wish APS would release the actual percentage/number of 5th graders applying to HB from each ES. My guess has always been that a higher proportion of ATS 5th graders may apply (compared to the proportion of 5th graders from the neighborhood ES). The ATS kids draw from all over the County and then are scattered to their home zones for middle school. The ATS kids are starting their friendships over, regardless of whether they go to HB or the home middle school. In contrast, many neighborhood ES kids may want to just stick with their existing friends through middle school and therefore not as many apply to HB--- I have heard this from quite a few parents in our neighborhood. This is just a theory... not sure why APS is so secretive about the HB admission pool data.

Maybe they aren't secretive. The form and the lottery are based on your home ES. The transfer report shows how many kids transfer in from which middle school zone (so you can figure out from which group of ES). It's not being "secret" -- they are reporting the information they easily have. What you are really asking is "why doesn't APS run a custom report to satisfy curious gossips?" I can answer that--they have better things to do with their time (and our tax dollars).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why I wish APS would release the actual percentage/number of 5th graders applying to HB from each ES. My guess has always been that a higher proportion of ATS 5th graders may apply (compared to the proportion of 5th graders from the neighborhood ES). The ATS kids draw from all over the County and then are scattered to their home zones for middle school. The ATS kids are starting their friendships over, regardless of whether they go to HB or the home middle school. In contrast, many neighborhood ES kids may want to just stick with their existing friends through middle school and therefore not as many apply to HB--- I have heard this from quite a few parents in our neighborhood. This is just a theory... not sure why APS is so secretive about the HB admission pool data.

I suspect a good part of not releasing it is knowing that people will misinterpret the data in order to attack the programs. It's easier to just not share it than to share it and then argue against its continued misuse.

I think you might be onto something as to why it may seem that a disproportionate number of ATS students end up at HB, that it's a self-selecting population, although I'm not sure it's about friendships (after all, roughly a third of their elementary class will go the same middle school). We didn't apply to ATS or any other choice school for our son because we really wanted to be in a neighborhood school and none of the elementary choice programs felt sufficiently compelling to us to overcome that. The neighborhood school thing becomes less of a priority for us as the kids get older, but assuming it's still something we value at that point, HB would again have to sufficiently compelling to overcome our neighborhood school preference. For someone who doesn't particularly prioritize going to a neighborhood school, they're going to be far more likely to apply to both ATS and HB, so it wouldn't surprise me if the HB lottery pool has a disproportionate number of ATS kids to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Do we know that there are, in fact, a disproportionate number of kids who go to H-B from ATS? Or is it just that people take more notice of them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do we know that there are, in fact, a disproportionate number of kids who go to H-B from ATS? Or is it just that people take more notice of them?

We don't know because APS doesn't release the data this way. It's just speculation/confirmation bias.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why I wish APS would release the actual percentage/number of 5th graders applying to HB from each ES. My guess has always been that a higher proportion of ATS 5th graders may apply (compared to the proportion of 5th graders from the neighborhood ES). The ATS kids draw from all over the County and then are scattered to their home zones for middle school. The ATS kids are starting their friendships over, regardless of whether they go to HB or the home middle school. In contrast, many neighborhood ES kids may want to just stick with their existing friends through middle school and therefore not as many apply to HB--- I have heard this from quite a few parents in our neighborhood. This is just a theory... not sure why APS is so secretive about the HB admission pool data.

Maybe they aren't secretive. The form and the lottery are based on your home ES. The transfer report shows how many kids transfer in from which middle school zone (so you can figure out from which group of ES). It's not being "secret" -- they are reporting the information they easily have. What you are really asking is "why doesn't APS run a custom report to satisfy curious gossips?" I can answer that--they have better things to do with their time (and our tax dollars).

PP- you missed the point of my post and are being unnecessarily snarky. The transfer report shows how many kids transfer in from which middle school zone-- but it doesn't show which elementary school they attended before coming to HB. It also doesn't show how many kids apply from each ES (or from private school for that matter). This is information APS should easily have- X%/# of 5th graders from Taylor who apply; X%/# from Long Branch; X%/# from ATS, etc. If more ATS kids proportionally apply to the HB lottery, then it makes sense why it seems like a disproportionate amount are accepted (or maybe that's not even true). The data would also show (or not show) whether there are admissions irregularities that could be chalked up to connections/favoritism people often claim. Without this data, its hard to have a conversation about whether the lottery should change, which was a point of discussion when the APS transfer policy was being revised last year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why I wish APS would release the actual percentage/number of 5th graders applying to HB from each ES. My guess has always been that a higher proportion of ATS 5th graders may apply (compared to the proportion of 5th graders from the neighborhood ES). The ATS kids draw from all over the County and then are scattered to their home zones for middle school. The ATS kids are starting their friendships over, regardless of whether they go to HB or the home middle school. In contrast, many neighborhood ES kids may want to just stick with their existing friends through middle school and therefore not as many apply to HB--- I have heard this from quite a few parents in our neighborhood. This is just a theory... not sure why APS is so secretive about the HB admission pool data.

Maybe they aren't secretive. The form and the lottery are based on your home ES. The transfer report shows how many kids transfer in from which middle school zone (so you can figure out from which group of ES). It's not being "secret" -- they are reporting the information they easily have. What you are really asking is "why doesn't APS run a custom report to satisfy curious gossips?" I can answer that--they have better things to do with their time (and our tax dollars).

PP- you missed the point of my post and are being unnecessarily snarky. The transfer report shows how many kids transfer in from which middle school zone-- but it doesn't show which elementary school they attended before coming to HB. It also doesn't show how many kids apply from each ES (or from private school for that matter). This is information APS should easily have- X%/# of 5th graders from Taylor who apply; X%/# from Long Branch; X%/# from ATS, etc. If more ATS kids proportionally apply to the HB lottery, then it makes sense why it seems like a disproportionate amount are accepted (or maybe that's not even true). The data would also show (or not show) whether there are admissions irregularities that could be chalked up to connections/favoritism people often claim. Without this data, its hard to have a conversation about whether the lottery should change, which was a point of discussion when the APS transfer policy was being revised last year.

I take your point, but ATS kids officially apply "from" their neighborhood schools. Of course, they know what school they're actually attending, but they're thrown in the pool for the seats allotted for whatever would have been their neighborhood elementary school.