Poll: do you believe in God?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because a totally unrepresentative sample of DCUM is much better?

And what makes you think professional polling methods are flawed? Or that people would be "more" honest on DCUM? Or that DCUM's atheist trolls wouldn't post multiple times in a way that professional pollsters could control for?

I work for Pew-seriously. I know a lot about polling and statistics.

Your poll is ridiculous.

Agree. DCUM is predominantly liberal, and liberals tend to have a lesser belief in G-d. Skewed sample.

Disagree. I'm extremely concerned liberal and religious. However, I do think that, on this particular forum, the atheist buzz saw of hatred for all things religious has driven off a lot of religious posters. Therefore I doubt the survey would be representative for that reason.

not believing is not a buzzsaw of hatred. It's just not believing. Believing in god is not on its own a good thing. It's simply a thing. Some of those who believe find great comfort in it. Others seem fearful of a punishing god and others seem to think that they must deride people who don't believe the way they do.

Do you think you convince anyone when you play innocent like this? Everybody with a passing familiarity with this forum has seen some of the atheists here-not all-calling religion "fantasy" and "fairy tales" and calling believers pathetic sheeple. Some of you post gross stereotypes, like we all think non-believers are going to hell, no matter how many times we correct you. You derail almost every thread about religion with your whiny "but god is a fake and a farce." You reduce religion to a crutch, or a control mechanism, and absolutely refuse to acknowledge a possible role for faith-like you just did in your post above. It's all extremely disrespectful, at a minimum, and downright hateful and abusive some of the time.

If you were even remotely intellectually honest you'd acknowledge this. You're not, but that's OK because we all know what we've seen and read.

This is what could be called "a buzzsaw of hatred for all things atheist."

Amen

Heh. That was a list of real-life things you've actually said here on DCUM. If you think it's ugly, you need to look in a mirror.

You're like a toddler who thinks piling on the insults will somehow magically cause his parents to ignore his other bad behavior.

If you are trying to address a specific person, go start new thread. You've dumped enough off-topic hate and insults on this thread.

And you will know they are Christian by their love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because a totally unrepresentative sample of DCUM is much better?

And what makes you think professional polling methods are flawed? Or that people would be "more" honest on DCUM? Or that DCUM's atheist trolls wouldn't post multiple times in a way that professional pollsters could control for?

I work for Pew-seriously. I know a lot about polling and statistics.

Your poll is ridiculous.

Agree. DCUM is predominantly liberal, and liberals tend to have a lesser belief in G-d. Skewed sample.

Disagree. I'm extremely concerned liberal and religious. However, I do think that, on this particular forum, the atheist buzz saw of hatred for all things religious has driven off a lot of religious posters. Therefore I doubt the survey would be representative for that reason.

not believing is not a buzzsaw of hatred. It's just not believing. Believing in god is not on its own a good thing. It's simply a thing. Some of those who believe find great comfort in it. Others seem fearful of a punishing god and others seem to think that they must deride people who don't believe the way they do.

Do you think you convince anyone when you play innocent like this? Everybody with a passing familiarity with this forum has seen some of the atheists here-not all-calling religion "fantasy" and "fairy tales" and calling believers pathetic sheeple. Some of you post gross stereotypes, like we all think non-believers are going to hell, no matter how many times we correct you. You derail almost every thread about religion with your whiny "but god is a fake and a farce." You reduce religion to a crutch, or a control mechanism, and absolutely refuse to acknowledge a possible role for faith-like you just did in your post above. It's all extremely disrespectful, at a minimum, and downright hateful and abusive some of the time.

If you were even remotely intellectually honest you'd acknowledge this. You're not, but that's OK because we all know what we've seen and read.

Can you reference some times when Christians said they did not think atheists and other non-Christians were going to hell? Having been a liberal Christian, I know that they are not focused on hell, but truly, I don't recall it coming up on DCUM. What I recall is fundamentalists assuring atheists that they were hellbound.

There are several who say this all the time. Including the minister above. I've said it multiple times. I don't have time to trawl through old posts, but I say this with absolute confidence. It's like there's an atheist who loves to drop this canard to rile up the Christians she knows will deny it. Yes, there's one vocal fondue, but she's outnumbered by the multiple Christians who do *not* believe this.

So what do you think happens to atheists after they die? Think in terms of the extremely disrespectful, downright hateful and abusive, buzzsaw of hatred DCUM atheists referenced above

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP makes it pretty clear that she is not a fundamentalist (like you?) who believes there is only one path to God. In the past, she has said she respects the atheist "path" as well, but it seems to go unmentioned here as a legitimate way to live.

In fairness, that wasn't really part of the OP's survey. The questions were specifically about religious faith. If you ask me if I believe the atheists path to be "legitimate", of course I would agree that it is. I believe in God the same way I believe in gravity. I can't see it, but I can certainly see the effect. I strongly believe that all beings eventually find "God" whatever the word means to them. I don't need to worry about the atheist's path. God has that covered. He/She doesn't need my help.

The poster questioning my Christianity is concerned about my statement that I do not believe humans need to be "saved". I probably should have phrased it more clearly. I believe every person is born good. I reject the concept of original sin completely. God is good and therefore incapable of creating evil. We have free will. We screw up over and over again. That's the nature of ego. But every single being on this planet is inherently good. There is a light in each person. Some just hide it really, really well. I believe that when Christ spoke of salvation, he was speaking metaphysically. Salvation comes when we begin to let go of ego and move towards enlightenment. I believe we all get there. It may take many lifetimes. I believe we are literally "born again" and again and again until we are finally capable of being born into eternal communion with God. We all eventually join the creative consciousness of our creator. We return to our beginning when our soul journey is complete.

Jesus the Christ is my way-shower. I follow Christ therefore, I Am a Christian. Others follow different paths with different way-showers. All are manifestations of the same God.

Just MY personal beliefs. I enjoy discussions about religion and spirituality. I do not appreciate being told I am "not a Christian". To the poster who said that - May I gently suggest you spend a little time thinking about what it means to be Christ-like?

I don't appreciate being told different paths are all "manifestations of the same God." And atheists might not appreciate being told that God had their path covered.

Just sayin'.

In all fairness, the UU minister didn't attack your beliefs, so she didn't "tell" you anything - unlike you, who decided to attack her beliefs by telling her she couldn't self-identify as Christian. Someone is more Christ-like than someone else in this conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you think you convince anyone when you play innocent like this? Everybody with a passing familiarity with this forum has seen some of the atheists here-not all-calling religion "fantasy" and "fairy tales" and calling believers pathetic sheeple. Some of you post gross stereotypes, like we all think non-believers are going to hell, no matter how many times we correct you. You derail almost every thread about religion with your whiny "but god is a fake and a farce." You reduce religion to a crutch, or a control mechanism, and absolutely refuse to acknowledge a possible role for faith-like you just did in your post above. It's all extremely disrespectful, at a minimum, and downright hateful and abusive some of the time.

If you were even remotely intellectually honest you'd acknowledge this. You're not, but that's OK because we all know what we've seen and read.

This is what could be called "a buzzsaw of hatred for all things atheist."

Amen

Heh. That was a list of real-life things you've actually said here on DCUM. If you think it's ugly, you need to look in a mirror.

You're like a toddler who thinks piling on the insults will somehow magically cause his parents to ignore his other bad behavior.

If you are trying to address a specific person, go start new thread. You've dumped enough off-topic hate and insults on this thread.

Sure--just as soon as you two atheists stop derailing religious threads in all the ways described above.

Look in the mirror--this is simply a list of stuff two atheists here do and say all the time. If there's any "hate" here, it's your own self-hatred for your own behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you think you convince anyone when you play innocent like this? Everybody with a passing familiarity with this forum has seen some of the atheists here-not all-calling religion "fantasy" and "fairy tales" and calling believers pathetic sheeple. Some of you post gross stereotypes, like we all think non-believers are going to hell, no matter how many times we correct you. You derail almost every thread about religion with your whiny "but god is a fake and a farce." You reduce religion to a crutch, or a control mechanism, and absolutely refuse to acknowledge a possible role for faith-like you just did in your post above. It's all extremely disrespectful, at a minimum, and downright hateful and abusive some of the time.

If you were even remotely intellectually honest you'd acknowledge this. You're not, but that's OK because we all know what we've seen and read.

This is what could be called "a buzzsaw of hatred for all things atheist."

Amen

Heh. That was a list of real-life things you've actually said here on DCUM. If you think it's ugly, you need to look in a mirror.

You're like a toddler who thinks piling on the insults will somehow magically cause his parents to ignore his other bad behavior.

If you are trying to address a specific person, go start new thread. You've dumped enough off-topic hate and insults on this thread.

Sure--just as soon as you two atheists stop derailing religious threads in all the ways described above.

Look in the mirror--this is simply a list of stuff two atheists here do and say all the time. If there's any "hate" here, it's your own self-hatred for your own behavior.

Just STFU. I've never posted any of that crap you've listed. I do go after atheist haters, like YOU, who cannot participate in a regular thread like this without spewing your ignorance and hate. So just STFU already.

S
T
F
U

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you think you convince anyone when you play innocent like this? Everybody with a passing familiarity with this forum has seen some of the atheists here-not all-calling religion "fantasy" and "fairy tales" and calling believers pathetic sheeple. Some of you post gross stereotypes, like we all think non-believers are going to hell, no matter how many times we correct you. You derail almost every thread about religion with your whiny "but god is a fake and a farce." You reduce religion to a crutch, or a control mechanism, and absolutely refuse to acknowledge a possible role for faith-like you just did in your post above. It's all extremely disrespectful, at a minimum, and downright hateful and abusive some of the time.

If you were even remotely intellectually honest you'd acknowledge this. You're not, but that's OK because we all know what we've seen and read.

This is what could be called "a buzzsaw of hatred for all things atheist."

Amen

Heh. That was a list of real-life things you've actually said here on DCUM. If you think it's ugly, you need to look in a mirror.

You're like a toddler who thinks piling on the insults will somehow magically cause his parents to ignore his other bad behavior.

If you are trying to address a specific person, go start new thread. You've dumped enough off-topic hate and insults on this thread.

Sure--just as soon as you two atheists stop derailing religious threads in all the ways described above.

Look in the mirror--this is simply a list of stuff two atheists here do and say all the time. If there's any "hate" here, it's your own self-hatred for your own behavior.

Just STFU. I've never posted any of that crap you've listed. I do go after atheist haters, like YOU, who cannot participate in a regular thread like this without spewing your ignorance and hate. So just STFU already.

S
T
F
U

Tell your atheist buddies who DO post all the crap above to stfu, and the rest of us will stop derailing your threads. Your double standard is appalling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP makes it pretty clear that she is not a fundamentalist (like you?) who believes there is only one path to God. In the past, she has said she respects the atheist "path" as well, but it seems to go unmentioned here as a legitimate way to live.

In fairness, that wasn't really part of the OP's survey. The questions were specifically about religious faith. If you ask me if I believe the atheists path to be "legitimate", of course I would agree that it is. I believe in God the same way I believe in gravity. I can't see it, but I can certainly see the effect. I strongly believe that all beings eventually find "God" whatever the word means to them. I don't need to worry about the atheist's path. God has that covered. He/She doesn't need my help.

The poster questioning my Christianity is concerned about my statement that I do not believe humans need to be "saved". I probably should have phrased it more clearly. I believe every person is born good. I reject the concept of original sin completely. God is good and therefore incapable of creating evil. We have free will. We screw up over and over again. That's the nature of ego. But every single being on this planet is inherently good. There is a light in each person. Some just hide it really, really well. I believe that when Christ spoke of salvation, he was speaking metaphysically. Salvation comes when we begin to let go of ego and move towards enlightenment. I believe we all get there. It may take many lifetimes. I believe we are literally "born again" and again and again until we are finally capable of being born into eternal communion with God. We all eventually join the creative consciousness of our creator. We return to our beginning when our soul journey is complete.

Jesus the Christ is my way-shower. I follow Christ therefore, I Am a Christian. Others follow different paths with different way-showers. All are manifestations of the same God.

Just MY personal beliefs. I enjoy discussions about religion and spirituality. I do not appreciate being told I am "not a Christian". To the poster who said that - May I gently suggest you spend a little time thinking about what it means to be Christ-like?

I don't appreciate being told different paths are all "manifestations of the same God." And atheists might not appreciate being told that God had their path covered.

Just sayin'.

In all fairness, the UU minister didn't attack your beliefs, so she didn't "tell" you anything - unlike you, who decided to attack her beliefs by telling her she couldn't self-identify as Christian. Someone is more Christ-like than someone else in this conversation.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you think you convince anyone when you play innocent like this? Everybody with a passing familiarity with this forum has seen some of the atheists here-not all-calling religion "fantasy" and "fairy tales" and calling believers pathetic sheeple. Some of you post gross stereotypes, like we all think non-believers are going to hell, no matter how many times we correct you. You derail almost every thread about religion with your whiny "but god is a fake and a farce." You reduce religion to a crutch, or a control mechanism, and absolutely refuse to acknowledge a possible role for faith-like you just did in your post above. It's all extremely disrespectful, at a minimum, and downright hateful and abusive some of the time.

If you were even remotely intellectually honest you'd acknowledge this. You're not, but that's OK because we all know what we've seen and read.

This is what could be called "a buzzsaw of hatred for all things atheist."

Amen

Heh. That was a list of real-life things you've actually said here on DCUM. If you think it's ugly, you need to look in a mirror.

You're like a toddler who thinks piling on the insults will somehow magically cause his parents to ignore his other bad behavior.

If you are trying to address a specific person, go start new thread. You've dumped enough off-topic hate and insults on this thread.

Sure--just as soon as you two atheists stop derailing religious threads in all the ways described above.

Look in the mirror--this is simply a list of stuff two atheists here do and say all the time. If there's any "hate" here, it's your own self-hatred for your own behavior.

Just STFU. I've never posted any of that crap you've listed. I do go after atheist haters, like YOU, who cannot participate in a regular thread like this without spewing your ignorance and hate. So just STFU already.

S
T
F
U

Now you know how people of faith feel when atheists derail every.single.thread. It sucks, doesn't it?

Here's an idea. Why not rein in their bad behavior, instead of criticizing the people who are trying to deal with it however destructively?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you think you convince anyone when you play innocent like this? Everybody with a passing familiarity with this forum has seen some of the atheists here-not all-calling religion "fantasy" and "fairy tales" and calling believers pathetic sheeple. Some of you post gross stereotypes, like we all think non-believers are going to hell, no matter how many times we correct you. You derail almost every thread about religion with your whiny "but god is a fake and a farce." You reduce religion to a crutch, or a control mechanism, and absolutely refuse to acknowledge a possible role for faith-like you just did in your post above. It's all extremely disrespectful, at a minimum, and downright hateful and abusive some of the time.

If you were even remotely intellectually honest you'd acknowledge this. You're not, but that's OK because we all know what we've seen and read.

This is what could be called "a buzzsaw of hatred for all things atheist."

Amen

Heh. That was a list of real-life things you've actually said here on DCUM. If you think it's ugly, you need to look in a mirror.

You're like a toddler who thinks piling on the insults will somehow magically cause his parents to ignore his other bad behavior.

If you are trying to address a specific person, go start new thread. You've dumped enough off-topic hate and insults on this thread.

Sure--just as soon as you two atheists stop derailing religious threads in all the ways described above.

Look in the mirror--this is simply a list of stuff two atheists here do and say all the time. If there's any "hate" here, it's your own self-hatred for your own behavior.

Just STFU. I've never posted any of that crap you've listed. I do go after atheist haters, like YOU, who cannot participate in a regular thread like this without spewing your ignorance and hate. So just STFU already.

S
T
F
U

Tell your atheist buddies who DO post all the crap above to stfu, and the rest of us will stop derailing your threads. Your double standard is appalling.

It's not like we're all friends and I'll just tell them at our next HH. You are responsible for what you post. So if you want to be a raging B all of the time then that's all on you.

[Anonymous]

And "double standard"? Ha - you do all of the same crap you complain they are doing. Go back and read your own posts, you hypocritical jerk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And "double standard"? Ha - you do all of the same crap you complain they are doing. Go back and read your own posts, you hypocritical jerk.

Yet you attack me not them, hmmm.

I don't and never have;
- make up generalizations about "all atheists"
- ridicule atheists
- until two weeks ago, treated their threads the way you guys treat religion threads
I also don't see anybody else doing this with the exception of a single fundie.

The atheist hate-trolling has been going on as long as I've been on DCUM, which is several years now. I just started giving you guys a taste of your own medicine a week or two ago. If the moderator had done anything about those two long-standing bad actors, this wouldn't be necessary. My only goal is to make it possible for religious people to have actual conversations here.

I have to say, your whining about being "victims" is hysterical and puts the "h" in "hypocrite."

Grow up. I will say this: you lack a funny bone,

[Anonymous]

Interesting. The posts seem almost exactly evenly split between people of faith and atheists. By contrast, national polls like the Pew poll find 6-7% atheists and another 13% who are spiritual/religious but aren't affiliated with a religious institution.

OP, do you conclude that other polls are flawed? Why? At the start you hypothesized that it's because people are uncomfortable talking about religion over the phone. I don't see that here, and certainly not among the atheists here. Do you disagree?

Do we conclude, alternatively, that this forum is unrepresentative? What accounts for the higher representation of atheists than in the general population? Some here claim this forum is hostile to belief, do you agree or disagree?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And "double standard"? Ha - you do all of the same crap you complain they are doing. Go back and read your own posts, you hypocritical jerk.

Yet you attack me not them, hmmm.

I don't and never have;
- make up generalizations about "all atheists"
- ridicule atheists
- until two weeks ago, treated their threads the way you guys treat religion threads
I also don't see anybody else doing this with the exception of a single fundie.

The atheist hate-trolling has been going on as long as I've been on DCUM, which is several years now. I just started giving you guys a taste of your own medicine a week or two ago. If the moderator had done anything about those two long-standing bad actors, this wouldn't be necessary. My only goal is to make it possible for religious people to have actual conversations here.

I have to say, your whining about being "victims" is hysterical and puts the "h" in "hypocrite."

Grow up. I will say this: you lack a funny bone,

I am not the keeper of the Religion forum. I don't read every thread trying to police others. I can only control me and I was enjoying this thread until you started your hysterical rants. So please just STFU.

Go start another Stalin thread since you seem to enjoy that type of thread so much. I'm sure you'll spin up more atheists who you can blame for the actions of others. Seems like a really good use of everyone's time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And "double standard"? Ha - you do all of the same crap you complain they are doing. Go back and read your own posts, you hypocritical jerk.

Yet you attack me not them, hmmm.

I don't and never have;
- make up generalizations about "all atheists"
- ridicule atheists
- until two weeks ago, treated their threads the way you guys treat religion threads
I also don't see anybody else doing this with the exception of a single fundie.

The atheist hate-trolling has been going on as long as I've been on DCUM, which is several years now. I just started giving you guys a taste of your own medicine a week or two ago. If the moderator had done anything about those two long-standing bad actors, this wouldn't be necessary. My only goal is to make it possible for religious people to have actual conversations here.

I have to say, your whining about being "victims" is hysterical and puts the "h" in "hypocrite."

Grow up. I will say this: you lack a funny bone,

I am not the keeper of the Religion forum. I don't read every thread trying to police others. I can only control me and I was enjoying this thread until you started your hysterical rants. So please just STFU.

Go start another Stalin thread since you seem to enjoy that type of thread so much. I'm sure you'll spin up more atheists who you can blame for the actions of others. Seems like a really good use of everyone's time.

You're policing me right now, but where your fellow atheists are concerned you don't want to police. Got it. Can you spell "hypocrite"?

I didn't start the "Staln" thread. Clearly, though, somebody else is fed up with atheist trolling and is also doing something about it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. The posts seem almost exactly evenly split between people of faith and atheists. By contrast, national polls like the Pew poll find 6-7% atheists and another 13% who are spiritual/religious but aren't affiliated with a religious institution.

OP, do you conclude that other polls are flawed? Why? At the start you hypothesized that it's because people are uncomfortable talking about religion over the phone. I don't see that here, and certainly not among the atheists here. Do you disagree?

Do we conclude, alternatively, that this forum is unrepresentative? What accounts for the higher representation of atheists than in the general population? Some here claim this forum is hostile to belief, do you agree or disagree?

Let's get back on topic. Thoughts?

To me, this forum is dominated by atheists in a way that seems inconsistent with other high-profile national polls. Why do we think that is?