DC Public and charter - is there interest in year round school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"When 75% of students are low-income and at risk, the school district needs to adjust to meet and prioritize their needs . Otherwise you are just perpetuating the gaps between rich and poor students."

So we ignore the needs of the smartest and highest-achieving kids who have the abilities to do great things for our city/country?

No, research shows that these kids do NOT do okay when their needs are ignored. In fact, a lot of them end up underachieving and, yes, in jail. (10% of the jail population is gifted, compared to 2-3% of the total population.)

Please. Show me how anyone is "ignoring the needs of the smartest and highest-achieving kids." Your post assumes that the 75% of students who are low-income and at-risk are not smart or high achieving and lack the abilities to do great things for our city/country. Why do you assume that there are not kids in that 75% who will benefit from and be able to realize their high achieving status via an extended school year?

I think you sound pretty out of touch with the educational and social needs of a lot of children in this city. I don't doubt that extended year will be resisted in upper NW and the parts of the Hill that are populated by high income families, though I do think that the Hill families may be better acquainted with the needs of at-risk students since there are at-risk students in Hill schools. I don't think you need to worry about your kid missing out on underwater basket-weaving or whatever summer enrichment options the high SES kids are taking advantage of.

I think that a lot of people on this thread are operating in a very different reality than the parents of many kids whose schools are participating in this program. For starters, it sounds like many of you have the option to take weeks-long vacations at least once per summer. If you're talking about any kind of "enriching travel" you have the means to take enriching vacations, including paying for transportation to whatever enriching place and taking the time off work to travel. You are probably taking a paid vacation, which assumes that you work in a position where that's a benefit you have. If you're not taking vacations, and are prioritizing spending quality time with your kids over the summer, it sounds like you are either a stay at home parent or a person who is able to work from home. If you're the SAHP, you probably have a high-earning spouse and your family is solvent on one income.

That isn't true for the vast majority of parents at the schools where the program exists right now, so please spare us the concern about those poor neglected wealthy children and their potential to affect the future being compromised because of an extra 20 school days.

Not PP, but no-one on this thread is disputing that behind-grade-level students do better with more school days per year, and it's obvious that not everyone can afford the proverbial Florence museum vacation. But these facts are an argument for more school days for behind-grade-level students. They are not an argument in favor of extended year versus mandatory summer school for students who need it. Can you explain why extended year for all students is superior to summer school targeted at students who need it?

You or someone else mentioned that the 10 or so schools with extended year are Title I and this is true, in fact most or all are in the "priority 40" schools, the worst performing schools in DC. But this looks like a pilot and I think DCPS is even using the word "pilot" so many parents are looking ahead and anticipating a DCPS move to expand this rapidly, possibly to their school.

Also, someone up thread seemed to suggest that the extended year schools are using the extra days to visit museums, not do classwork. Is that true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"When 75% of students are low-income and at risk, the school district needs to adjust to meet and prioritize their needs . Otherwise you are just perpetuating the gaps between rich and poor students."

So we ignore the needs of the smartest and highest-achieving kids who have the abilities to do great things for our city/country?

No, research shows that these kids do NOT do okay when their needs are ignored. In fact, a lot of them end up underachieving and, yes, in jail. (10% of the jail population is gifted, compared to 2-3% of the total population.)

Please. Show me how anyone is "ignoring the needs of the smartest and highest-achieving kids." Your post assumes that the 75% of students who are low-income and at-risk are not smart or high achieving and lack the abilities to do great things for our city/country. Why do you assume that there are not kids in that 75% who will benefit from and be able to realize their high achieving status via an extended school year?

I think you sound pretty out of touch with the educational and social needs of a lot of children in this city. I don't doubt that extended year will be resisted in upper NW and the parts of the Hill that are populated by high income families, though I do think that the Hill families may be better acquainted with the needs of at-risk students since there are at-risk students in Hill schools. I don't think you need to worry about your kid missing out on underwater basket-weaving or whatever summer enrichment options the high SES kids are taking advantage of.

I think that a lot of people on this thread are operating in a very different reality than the parents of many kids whose schools are participating in this program. For starters, it sounds like many of you have the option to take weeks-long vacations at least once per summer. If you're talking about any kind of "enriching travel" you have the means to take enriching vacations, including paying for transportation to whatever enriching place and taking the time off work to travel. You are probably taking a paid vacation, which assumes that you work in a position where that's a benefit you have. If you're not taking vacations, and are prioritizing spending quality time with your kids over the summer, it sounds like you are either a stay at home parent or a person who is able to work from home. If you're the SAHP, you probably have a high-earning spouse and your family is solvent on one income.

That isn't true for the vast majority of parents at the schools where the program exists right now, so please spare us the concern about those poor neglected wealthy children and their potential to affect the future being compromised because of an extra 20 school days.

Not PP, but no-one on this thread is disputing that behind-grade-level students do better with more school days per year, and it's obvious that not everyone can afford the proverbial Florence museum vacation. But these facts are an argument for more school days for behind-grade-level students. They are not an argument in favor of extended year versus mandatory summer school for students who need it. Can you explain why extended year for all students is superior to summer school targeted at students who need it?

You or someone else mentioned that the 10 or so schools with extended year are Title I and this is true, in fact most or all are in the "priority 40" schools, the worst performing schools in DC. But this looks like a pilot and I think DCPS is even using the word "pilot" so many parents are looking ahead and anticipating a DCPS move to expand this rapidly, possibly to their school.

Also, someone up thread seemed to suggest that the extended year schools are using the extra days to visit museums, not do classwork. Is that true?

I'm the PP. I also posted earlier in the thread that my child goes to one of these schools and was the person who mentioned that the teachers I've spoken with are excited to add more field trips and more expeditionary learning-type projects. We started school the 2nd week of August, and I have noticed that my child's grade has done a lot more "walking field trips" this fall, which takes them out of the classroom, gets them moving, and definitely augments that shamefully limited recess that DCPS allows for. It also seems to have allowed her teacher to do more individualized instruction, which has been helpful in that students who are reading above grade level are not forgotten while the teacher spends extra time on the kids who are struggling. The expeditionary learning stuff seems to be taking the form of "enrichment clusters" for everyone, and there are field trips built into that. My child is in a baking cluster right now, which means they are baking in school and will be visiting some local bakeries to learn about baking as well. I'm not sure how long this one will last, but after that, there will be another one, with another subject. I went to a school that integrated this kind of learning, and it was really wonderful.

I don't know that "pilot" means that this model will be moving to the whole system. I don't know that it will work in the whole system. Certainly schools in upper NW do not have a problem providing enrichment for kids during the 180-day school year and those families have the means as well as the inclination to "prioritize summer" in the ways that a lot of posters are saying that they do. As for the argument that there should be mandatory summer school for kids who need it instead of extended year, I don't know that I agree with that. For me, the extended school year is as much about community as it is about instruction, which is why I think it's great that they're doing additional field trips and projects. I went to summer school one year, and it wasn't like "school" so much as "boot camp." Having the year-round model at schools where MOST of the kids need the additional instruction allows that instruction to happen in a less boot-campy way. They are still doing specials. They are still doing field trips. They are still doing regular classroom stuff and if that is "classwork" sometimes, that is fine with me. Summer school seems like a really great way for it to be classwork all the time, which doesn't seem like a good way to foster a love of learning.

I also think that it's reasonable to keep in mind that the kids who attend these schools aren't getting enriching summer experiences. I don't know what attendance at DCPS's summer school is like, but if the teacher up thread is any indication, it's nothing like what we have going on, which involves kids staying with their cohort, continuing to learn as they have done all year. I personally find this better, but as I mentioned earlier also, it's 2.5 months into the year for us. I can say that fall break was good in that we were able to travel and there was camp at school for people who didn't/couldn't take the week off. I don't know that we'll be doing that for all the breaks, but it is definitely something that the school is discussing.

[Anonymous]

That's nice that you think all students doing extended school would make for good community. But if my kids were denied summer break, we would leave the community for either private or the suburbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's nice that you think all students doing extended school would make for good community. But if my kids were denied summer break, we would leave the community for either private or the suburbs.

+1
Plain and simple

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"When 75% of students are low-income and at risk, the school district needs to adjust to meet and prioritize their needs . Otherwise you are just perpetuating the gaps between rich and poor students."

So we ignore the needs of the smartest and highest-achieving kids who have the abilities to do great things for our city/country?

No, research shows that these kids do NOT do okay when their needs are ignored. In fact, a lot of them end up underachieving and, yes, in jail. (10% of the jail population is gifted, compared to 2-3% of the total population.)

Please. Show me how anyone is "ignoring the needs of the smartest and highest-achieving kids." Your post assumes that the 75% of students who are low-income and at-risk are not smart or high achieving and lack the abilities to do great things for our city/country. Why do you assume that there are not kids in that 75% who will benefit from and be able to realize their high achieving status via an extended school year?

I think you sound pretty out of touch with the educational and social needs of a lot of children in this city. I don't doubt that extended year will be resisted in upper NW and the parts of the Hill that are populated by high income families, though I do think that the Hill families may be better acquainted with the needs of at-risk students since there are at-risk students in Hill schools. I don't think you need to worry about your kid missing out on underwater basket-weaving or whatever summer enrichment options the high SES kids are taking advantage of.

I think that a lot of people on this thread are operating in a very different reality than the parents of many kids whose schools are participating in this program. For starters, it sounds like many of you have the option to take weeks-long vacations at least once per summer. If you're talking about any kind of "enriching travel" you have the means to take enriching vacations, including paying for transportation to whatever enriching place and taking the time off work to travel. You are probably taking a paid vacation, which assumes that you work in a position where that's a benefit you have. If you're not taking vacations, and are prioritizing spending quality time with your kids over the summer, it sounds like you are either a stay at home parent or a person who is able to work from home. If you're the SAHP, you probably have a high-earning spouse and your family is solvent on one income.

That isn't true for the vast majority of parents at the schools where the program exists right now, so please spare us the concern about those poor neglected wealthy children and their potential to affect the future being compromised because of an extra 20 school days.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's nice that you think all students doing extended school would make for good community. But if my kids were denied summer break, we would leave the community for either private or the suburbs.

+1
Plain and simple

20 more instructional days =/= 'denied summer break'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's nice that you think all students doing extended school would make for good community. But if my kids were denied summer break, we would leave the community for either private or the suburbs.

+1
Plain and simple

Why do your kids need more than a month of summer break?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's nice that you think all students doing extended school would make for good community. But if my kids were denied summer break, we would leave the community for either private or the suburbs.

+1
Plain and simple

Why do your kids need more than a month of summer break?

Please read the thread. There are many examples that parents have advanced. In my household, summer is when real prep for college and career takes place:

1. Exposure to out of school learning opportunities that go beyond DCPS boundaries, learning experiences that will help strengthen DC's interest in a profession and employability. Another month of choosing the right answer on a test, or coming up with sentences to analyze a lit or non-fiction passage in not going to get DC anywhere.
2. Opportunity to spend time with extended family/language immersion, which will also enhance employability.
3. Opportunity to work with DC on academic skills that are not addressed in DCPS test prep academic program, which is still a makeshift as alignment of new testing, new standards, via an appropriate curriculum is still a sickening mess. An additional month of makeshift curriculum in an often disrupted classroom is not what my DC needs.

Before the class warriors start firing away at paper tigers, I know that many DCPS students are at risk. I really wonder whether an additional month of the same old same old -- with some baking and a trip to a museum or two thrown in -- will actually boost the future employability of at-risk children. But if the consensus is that it will, why not channel resources to address that challenge, by focusing the extended year program and any fresh thinking/funds on the 40 or so schools that are at risk? It seems that a key criticism of Chacellor Henderson's tenure was lack of focus on schools identified as priority targets.

Given the activity on this thread between the hours of 9 and 4, I have a sickening feeling that the mayor is about to name an in-house candidate as chancellor, and that extended school year for all is going to be unveiled as a bold initiative. Same old, same old, just more of it.

[Anonymous]

"Show me how anyone is "ignoring the needs of the smartest and highest-achieving kids."

The very fact that DC doesn't have any gifted and talented programs is the clearest evidence of this. Every other jurisdiction around us does. Some states have state-wide programs. But DC just sticks its head in the sand and ignores the educational needs of the gifted.

And yes, there are plenty of gifted low income kids being screwed over by this policy. This isn't a black/white or rich/poor thing. When we have a one-size-fits-all approach that teaches to the lowest ability levels, we fail to enrich those kids who could do so much more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the PP. I also posted earlier in the thread that my child goes to one of these schools and was the person who mentioned that the teachers I've spoken with are excited to add more field trips and more expeditionary learning-type projects. We started school the 2nd week of August, and I have noticed that my child's grade has done a lot more "walking field trips" this fall, which takes them out of the classroom, gets them moving, and definitely augments that shamefully limited recess that DCPS allows for. It also seems to have allowed her teacher to do more individualized instruction, which has been helpful in that students who are reading above grade level are not forgotten while the teacher spends extra time on the kids who are struggling. The expeditionary learning stuff seems to be taking the form of "enrichment clusters" for everyone, and there are field trips built into that. My child is in a baking cluster right now, which means they are baking in school and will be visiting some local bakeries to learn about baking as well. I'm not sure how long this one will last, but after that, there will be another one, with another subject. I went to a school that integrated this kind of learning, and it was really wonderful.

I don't know that "pilot" means that this model will be moving to the whole system. I don't know that it will work in the whole system. Certainly schools in upper NW do not have a problem providing enrichment for kids during the 180-day school year and those families have the means as well as the inclination to "prioritize summer" in the ways that a lot of posters are saying that they do. As for the argument that there should be mandatory summer school for kids who need it instead of extended year, I don't know that I agree with that. For me, the extended school year is as much about community as it is about instruction, which is why I think it's great that they're doing additional field trips and projects. I went to summer school one year, and it wasn't like "school" so much as "boot camp." Having the year-round model at schools where MOST of the kids need the additional instruction allows that instruction to happen in a less boot-campy way. They are still doing specials. They are still doing field trips. They are still doing regular classroom stuff and if that is "classwork" sometimes, that is fine with me. Summer school seems like a really great way for it to be classwork all the time, which doesn't seem like a good way to foster a love of learning.

I also think that it's reasonable to keep in mind that the kids who attend these schools aren't getting enriching summer experiences. I don't know what attendance at DCPS's summer school is like, but if the teacher up thread is any indication, it's nothing like what we have going on, which involves kids staying with their cohort, continuing to learn as they have done all year. I personally find this better, but as I mentioned earlier also, it's 2.5 months into the year for us. I can say that fall break was good in that we were able to travel and there was camp at school for people who didn't/couldn't take the week off. I don't know that we'll be doing that for all the breaks, but it is definitely something that the school is discussing.

I am PP (and not any of the other PPs since your post). Thanks for taking the time to share your perspective, I appreciate it. It's good to hear that you are having a positive experience overall and I take your point about community. That's important to me too and would be an argument in favor of extended year over summer school.

I am particularly glad to hear that you think that this is enabling more differentiated instruction. That's very important and if that is truly a benefit of extended year then DCPS should commission some research on that and broadcast the results loud and clear because this for me would be another argument in favor of extended year. It is true that we can use the long summer for enrichment (and we do), but that is not as good as an increase in differentiated instruction throughout the school year. Because the hours spent in school are so much more numerous than the summer hours.

Unlike some other PPs I am not interested in private school or a move to the suburbs, so experiences like yours will be encouraging for me if and when our school adopts extended year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's nice that you think all students doing extended school would make for good community. But if my kids were denied summer break, we would leave the community for either private or the suburbs.

+1
Plain and simple

And no-one would miss you, so win-win.

[Anonymous]

No way in hell for us. We need our vacation time to stay just as it is. I wouldn't want my kids to be in school year round. That's for kids and schools that have children who are poorer and struggle both financially and academically. No fault of theirs, just the reality of what they were born into.

[Anonymous]

Not to mention the teachers that would flee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No way in hell for us. We need our vacation time to stay just as it is. I wouldn't want my kids to be in school year round. That's for kids and schools that have children who are poorer and struggle both financially and academically. No fault of theirs, just the reality of what they were born into.

Yes but the reality is a majority of people on this list have children enrolled and succeeding in your local public school. That means you support the idea of public education already. But to really say you are FOR public school education, it helps to look outside your particular school. Helping ALL schools, in ALL 8 wards (wards many of us have never driven through let alone lived in) improve student outcomes should be the larger focus. Most children in DC are far behind, that's a fact. And more time in school to be exposed to new ideas, or maybe at a minimum a teacher who doesn't feel rushed, may be to all our benefit But if we aren't interested in looking out for these children being left behind, maybe we should be choosing another schooling system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No way in hell for us. We need our vacation time to stay just as it is. I wouldn't want my kids to be in school year round. That's for kids and schools that have children who are poorer and struggle both financially and academically. No fault of theirs, just the reality of what they were born into.

Yes but the reality is a majority of people on this list have children enrolled and succeeding in your local public school. That means you support the idea of public education already. But to really say you are FOR public school education, it helps to look outside your particular school. Helping ALL schools, in ALL 8 wards (wards many of us have never driven through let alone lived in) improve student outcomes should be the larger focus. Most children in DC are far behind, that's a fact. And more time in school to be exposed to new ideas, or maybe at a minimum a teacher who doesn't feel rushed, may be to all our benefit But if we aren't interested in looking out for these children being left behind, maybe we should be choosing another schooling system.

np: "should"? says who?

As a parent, one of my top responsibilities is seeing that my kids get an education that works well for them (and that means not being in dcps test prep all summer).

As a community member, I am concerned about the welfare of my fellow citizens, and I vote, pay taxes, volunteer time, and donate money to that end.

But being a good community member doesn't mean I have to compromise the education of my children. There are plenty of solutions that address the summer challenges that some face without making a draconian, one-size-fits-all mandate.