How Good is A Score of 31 on the ACT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of misinformation in this thread. Attempting to sort fact from fiction:

--There is a difference between financial aid and merit aid. Financial aid is based on the student’s need, as determined by the college/university (and often based on the FAFSA). Merit aid is based on merit, again as determined by the college/university. Obviously, what one college deems “meritorious” may not be considered out of the ordinary (or even acceptable) at another college.

--Most of the top-rated colleges & universities give *financial* aid only. This includes all Ivy League schools, as well as Stanford, MIT, CalTech, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Middlebury. Some top-rated schools give a very small handful of students merit scholarships each year (e.g. Chicago, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Wash U, Rice, Notre Dame).

--Only about 60 colleges & universities in the US pledge to meet “100%” of students’ need (as determined by the school). Most of these schools are highly rated and accept only top students. Even among those schools that do meet full need, most of them meet that need with a combination of grants and loans. Only the following schools pledge to meet 100% of need without including loans in the aid package: Amherst, Bowdoin, Colby, Columbia, Connecticut College, Davidson, Franklin & Marshall, Olin, Harvard, Haverford, Pomona, Princeton, Stanford, Swarthmore, Penn, Vanderbilt, Washington & Lee, and Yale. (A handful of schools meet 100% of need without loans for lower income families: Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, MIT, Rice, Chicago, UVA, Vassar, Wash U, Wellesley, Wesleyan). But note who is not on this list: Virtually every state university in the country. Almost every state U in the country includes loans in students' financial aid packages.

--All students can borrow money through the Stafford loan program, even if the financial aid package offered by the school doesn’t include loans—and even if the student doesn’t qualify for financial aid at all. So if a school offers a financial aid package that includes $3,000 “work study” or if the school deems that the family can pay $10k or $20k or $60k a year, the student/family can opt to borrow money to cover some or all of that amount. Under the Stafford loan program, dependent students can borrow (without a cosigner) up to $5500 freshman year, up to $6500 sophomore year, and up to $7500 junior year and beyond, for a maximum total amount of $31,000. For lower income families, a portion of the amount borrowed may be subsidized (i.e., no accrual of interested until after graduation). Students who want to borrow more money (beyond the Stafford limits) often can do so as long as they have a cosigner.

--For many students, attending a school that meets 100% need may be no more expensive—and may be cheaper—than attending an in-state public. This can be true even if the school is a pricey private that includes loans in the package, since most in-state publics (a) don’t meet 100% of need and (b) will include loans in their packages.

--For many students, attending a pricey private that doesn’t meet 100% need but does offer substantial merit scholarships may be no more expensive—and may be cheaper—than attending an in-state public. This will especially be true for students with good grades/test scores/etc. who also qualify for some financial aid.

--A student with a 31 ACT plus good (not necessarily great) grades in rigorous classes, and good (not necessarily great) activities will be a candidate for significant merit aid ($20k-$30k) at many mid-tier private schools, and some in-state and out-of-state publics as well. (Say, ranked 30+ on the USNWR university and SLAC rankings.) Again, for these students, attending a pricey private may be no more expensive than attending an in-state public.

Thank you for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Harvard's financial aid page. See the word "loan". You haven't done the FAFSA, the CSS or the IDOC yet, have you? I have. It's not as simple as you think. YOu have to report info on your house (date of purchase, current value), your cars, all your assets, bank savings, income from any other source, etc. It's not as simply as saying HHI of $170 = $20K obligation. And most of the people on this board make more than $150 so the whole issue becomes moot.

"A variety of options

In addition to need–based scholarships, we also offer financing options such as a parent monthly payment plan, various loan programs, and the opportunity to pre-pay tuition for four years at your freshman year rate.

We will also help you find alternative sources of financial assistance, like research grants and student employment in our libraries, dining halls, museums, and academic departments."

Not moot at all. 65% of students receive some form of aid from the school. So, if you ignore this possibility you do so at your own peril/expense. And despite what you think - as this is not the Private School Forum - the majority of us do not make more than $150k (median DC MSA income is about $90k). Unless, you believe that those at the median should not be included in this discussion.

It's moot for many families because dual income families in this area often exceed $150. So all your protesting that Harvard is cheaper than in-state is only for those families between 0 and $150K witih a dribble over that (note Harvard's wording is very vague). Our income is at least twice that but we have other kids in college right now, a recent death after prolonged in the family, two other parents that need to go into retirement homes and our own retirement planning is being ignored. So for that type of family, in-state is by far the best choice because otherwise we will be paying the full frieght of $65K, which we cannot afford. And yes before you get snotty about "well you should have prepared better", we did by starting trusts when all our children were born (this was before 529s). Those got decimated in the stock market crash of 2008. Then we found out one child has Special Needs so upon advice of accountant, drained the college funds to pay for SN treatment, tutoring and private school. Life's not a bowl of cherries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Harvard's financial aid page. See the word "loan". You haven't done the FAFSA, the CSS or the IDOC yet, have you? I have. It's not as simple as you think. YOu have to report info on your house (date of purchase, current value), your cars, all your assets, bank savings, income from any other source, etc. It's not as simply as saying HHI of $170 = $20K obligation. And most of the people on this board make more than $150 so the whole issue becomes moot.

"A variety of options

In addition to need–based scholarships, we also offer financing options such as a parent monthly payment plan, various loan programs, and the opportunity to pre-pay tuition for four years at your freshman year rate.

We will also help you find alternative sources of financial assistance, like research grants and student employment in our libraries, dining halls, museums, and academic departments."

Not moot at all. 65% of students receive some form of aid from the school. So, if you ignore this possibility you do so at your own peril/expense. And despite what you think - as this is not the Private School Forum - the majority of us do not make more than $150k (median DC MSA income is about $90k). Unless, you believe that those at the median should not be included in this discussion.

It's moot for many families because dual income families in this area often exceed $150. So all your protesting that Harvard is cheaper than in-state is only for those families between 0 and $150K witih a dribble over that (note Harvard's wording is very vague). Our income is at least twice that but we have other kids in college right now, a recent death after prolonged in the family, two other parents that need to go into retirement homes and our own retirement planning is being ignored. So for that type of family, in-state is by far the best choice because otherwise we will be paying the full frieght of $65K, which we cannot afford. And yes before you get snotty about "well you should have prepared better", we did by starting trusts when all our children were born (this was before 529s). Those got decimated in the stock market crash of 2008. Then we found out one child has Special Needs so upon advice of accountant, drained the college funds to pay for SN treatment, tutoring and private school. Life's not a bowl of cherries.

With the financial and other issues you just described, I'm surprised you aren't receiving any financial aid. I haven't been closely following the comments but did you apply for any no-loan aid?

My niece is at an Ivy with parental income in freshman year over $250k and received $5k in aid. Family income dropped $100K (one parent stopped working due to serious health reasons) , downsized house (not a ton of equity in the house), and like you, supporting elderly parents. Long story short, my niece has received $25,000 in no-loan aid going into junior year. This is a tremendous relief for the parents.

[Anonymous]

What about for good OOS Flagship universities?

[Anonymous]

Bringing this thread back around to the 31 on the ACT - what kind of schools are open to a public school kid who gets a 31 on the ACT but has an unweighted GPA of 3.1 ? (weighted is 3.35). Will have 5 AP courses and numerous other honors courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bringing this thread back around to the 31 on the ACT - what kind of schools are open to a public school kid who gets a 31 on the ACT but has an unweighted GPA of 3.1 ? (weighted is 3.35). Will have 5 AP courses and numerous other honors courses.

Which state? MD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bringing this thread back around to the 31 on the ACT - what kind of schools are open to a public school kid who gets a 31 on the ACT but has an unweighted GPA of 3.1 ? (weighted is 3.35). Will have 5 AP courses and numerous other honors courses.

Which state? MD?

DC. Strong preference for public schools, within 1,000 miles of DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bringing this thread back around to the 31 on the ACT - what kind of schools are open to a public school kid who gets a 31 on the ACT but has an unweighted GPA of 3.1 ? (weighted is 3.35). Will have 5 AP courses and numerous other honors courses.

You need to google the common data sets for those state schools. Look at at ACT range but also pay attention to their percentage of OOS students. Some state schools are very difficult to get into.

[Anonymous]

South Carolina will give you a ton of merit money for this score. What's the weighted GPA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bringing this thread back around to the 31 on the ACT - what kind of schools are open to a public school kid who gets a 31 on the ACT but has an unweighted GPA of 3.1 ? (weighted is 3.35). Will have 5 AP courses and numerous other honors courses.

Which state? MD?

DC. Strong preference for public schools, within 1,000 miles of DC.

Look at Colleges That Change Lives schools. Most if not all of them award merit aid to students like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Harvard's financial aid page. See the word "loan". You haven't done the FAFSA, the CSS or the IDOC yet, have you? I have. It's not as simple as you think. YOu have to report info on your house (date of purchase, current value), your cars, all your assets, bank savings, income from any other source, etc. It's not as simply as saying HHI of $170 = $20K obligation. And most of the people on this board make more than $150 so the whole issue becomes moot.

"A variety of options

In addition to need–based scholarships, we also offer financing options such as a parent monthly payment plan, various loan programs, and the opportunity to pre-pay tuition for four years at your freshman year rate.

We will also help you find alternative sources of financial assistance, like research grants and student employment in our libraries, dining halls, museums, and academic departments."

Not moot at all. 65% of students receive some form of aid from the school. So, if you ignore this possibility you do so at your own peril/expense. And despite what you think - as this is not the Private School Forum - the majority of us do not make more than $150k (median DC MSA income is about $90k). Unless, you believe that those at the median should not be included in this discussion.

It's moot for many families because dual income families in this area often exceed $150. So all your protesting that Harvard is cheaper than in-state is only for those families between 0 and $150K witih a dribble over that (note Harvard's wording is very vague). Our income is at least twice that but we have other kids in college right now, a recent death after prolonged in the family, two other parents that need to go into retirement homes and our own retirement planning is being ignored. So for that type of family, in-state is by far the best choice because otherwise we will be paying the full frieght of $65K, which we cannot afford. And yes before you get snotty about "well you should have prepared better", we did by starting trusts when all our children were born (this was before 529s). Those got decimated in the stock market crash of 2008. Then we found out one child has Special Needs so upon advice of accountant, drained the college funds to pay for SN treatment, tutoring and private school. Life's not a bowl of cherries.

With the financial and other issues you just described, I'm surprised you aren't receiving any financial aid. I haven't been closely following the comments but did you apply for any no-loan aid?

My niece is at an Ivy with parental income in freshman year over $250k and received $5k in aid. Family income dropped $100K (one parent stopped working due to serious health reasons) , downsized house (not a ton of equity in the house), and like you, supporting elderly parents. Long story short, my niece has received $25,000 in no-loan aid going into junior year. This is a tremendous relief for the parents.

PP said the HHI is at least double the $150K mark. No one in that bracket is going to get need-based aid.

In the DC area, there are a lot of families like this. That is why e.g. UMD-CP is becoming so hard to get into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bringing this thread back around to the 31 on the ACT - what kind of schools are open to a public school kid who gets a 31 on the ACT but has an unweighted GPA of 3.1 ? (weighted is 3.35). Will have 5 AP courses and numerous other honors courses.

Which state? MD?

DC. Strong preference for public schools, within 1,000 miles of DC.

Look at Colleges That Change Lives schools. Most if not all of them award merit aid to students like this.

I think 3.1/3.35 GPA is problematic. Which courses are weighted? Honors and AP/IBs or just AP/IBs??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of misinformation in this thread. Attempting to sort fact from fiction:


--Only about 60 colleges & universities in the US pledge to meet “100%” of students’ need (as determined by the school). Most of these schools are highly rated and accept only top students. Even among those schools that do meet full need, most of them meet that need with a combination of grants and loans. Only the following schools pledge to meet 100% of need without including loans in the aid package: Amherst, Bowdoin, Colby, Columbia, Connecticut College, Davidson, Franklin & Marshall, Olin, Harvard, Haverford, Pomona, Princeton, Stanford, Swarthmore, Penn, Vanderbilt, Washington & Lee, and Yale. (A handful of schools meet 100% of need without loans for lower income families: Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, MIT, Rice, Chicago, UVA, Vassar, Wash U, Wellesley, Wesleyan). But note who is not on this list: Virtually every state university in the country. Almost every state U in the country includes loans in students' financial aid packages.

Facing a budget crunch, Haverford put loans back into student financial aid packages a couple of years ago - though not for families making less than $60K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bringing this thread back around to the 31 on the ACT - what kind of schools are open to a public school kid who gets a 31 on the ACT but has an unweighted GPA of 3.1 ? (weighted is 3.35). Will have 5 AP courses and numerous other honors courses.

Which state? MD?

DC. Strong preference for public schools, within 1,000 miles of DC.

Look at Colleges That Change Lives schools. Most if not all of them award merit aid to students like this.

I think 3.1/3.35 GPA is problematic. Which courses are weighted? Honors and AP/IBs or just AP/IBs??

I think this GPA could be problematic, too. My DC with a 30 ACT received significant merit aid at several of the Colleges that Change Lives schools, enough to bring the cost near and even below what we would have paid at our state flagship. But DC also had an unweighted/weighted GPA of 3.7/4.0, 9 AP classes (5 of them before senior year, so with known AP test scores, 4 5s and 1 4), very good extracurriculars, and excellent recommendations. Not sure how the calculus changes with a 3.1/3.35 GPA.

[Anonymous]

I think a 31 is fantastic. Still, I'm struck how many prior posters respond that such a score (and even a 30) gets you merit aid and a lot of schools. At my kid's private school, a 30 would be considered to be on the lower end. Still good. But definitely on the average side. Is this a private school v public school difference?