DCPS Survey - Increase Instructional Time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a no vote. My kids need time to pursue all of the things they will never teach and never be able to do well in a school. I value after school hours, family dinners, peaceful evenings, and think summer is too short right now. I am quite certain that I'm a minority opinion though.

+1

(Unless there is a very robust and enriching plan about what to do with the extra time)

+2 I think the desire to increase "instructional" time is to benefit students who never have "peaceful evenings", family dinners or anyone in their lives who support their education.

The irony is that the kids they're targeting will benefit the least. Let's be real, many of those kids really don't learn anything during the school day. Just look at the released PARCC scores. There were high schools with not ONE student who showed proficiency in reading and writing. Then there are schools where nearly 90% of the kids are on the honor roll but less than 10% showed proficiency in reading and writing. The kids are passed along but learn nothing. Lengthening the school year won't change that.

Kaya needs to focus on depth, not breadth. Quality education over quantity. A longer school day/year will just give those students more time to act out in a classroom, more teaching to be disrupted and more education to be disregarded.

Good point. If I was in high school and they tacked on extra time I would probably cut class... and I was a good student in high school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DH and I both voted no. It's a bad idea that sounds good on the surface. Classic Kaya.

Right?! Let's find the easiest solution without giving it any thought or considering research or resources. Case in point: Cornerstones!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And where is the extra $ going to come from to cover all this? Teachers will have to be paid more, and be given additional planning time. All overhead expenses will increase; by a lot.

+1 Facilities, staffing, food services, transportation, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about instead of increased instructional time for all, instead making increased instructional time and increased year and summer school mandatory for students who are below grade level?

Those students who are really on grade level and not just "basic" or a low bar "proficient" level should have optional only extended school day and year.

This is a good idea.

I voted no to the extended day and school year for all the reasons the parent of a 5th grader stated above. My older kids are in a charter that finishes up a full week before DCPS right now. Having DCPS have school for several weeks after them would screw up vacation/swim team/camp plans.

They already have this option. It is called Summer School and Extended School Year (ESY) for students with an IEP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a no vote. My kids need time to pursue all of the things they will never teach and never be able to do well in a school. I value after school hours, family dinners, peaceful evenings, and think summer is too short right now. I am quite certain that I'm a minority opinion though.

+1

(Unless there is a very robust and enriching plan about what to do with the extra time)

+2 I think the desire to increase "instructional" time is to benefit students who never have "peaceful evenings", family dinners or anyone in their lives who support their education.

The irony is that the kids they're targeting will benefit the least. Let's be real, many of those kids really don't learn anything during the school day. Just look at the released PARCC scores. There were high schools with not ONE student who showed proficiency in reading and writing. Then there are schools where nearly 90% of the kids are on the honor roll but less than 10% showed proficiency in reading and writing. The kids are passed along but learn nothing. Lengthening the school year won't change that.

Kaya needs to focus on depth, not breadth. Quality education over quantity. A longer school day/year will just give those students more time to act out in a classroom, more teaching to be disrupted and more education to be disregarded.

+3 and I have kids in elementary school. I would actually be happy if DCPS had less days off during the year and used the entire school year proficiently, we have noticed that after the end of April kids are working less, the last week or two or school is just a (fun) waste with water balloon fights on the playground and the like.

money and efforts should be concentrated on the kids who need help, the ones who get to MS and do not know how to read and write.

Because DCPS is focused on testing ONLY not teaching. After the tests are over then teachers have tons of paperwork to submit to ensure they get to come back to do it all over again the next year. If you could see the mountain of paperwork that is required of teachers in additional to their day to day tasks then you would understand why a longer school day is counterproductive. The half days are for "data" or so teachers can submit the mountains of paperwork they have collected. The PD days are for the initiatives the are proposed and then abandoned the next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:longer year would be great--let's join the rest of the industrialized world with a non-agricultural school year and hopefully higher PISA scores.

Having been educated in Europe, let me say that the main difference is not year length per se, but the breadth and depth of the curriculum. Every year (that I recall) we had 6 or more subjects, including things like history or science or religion/ ethics. If DCPS is planning to have a similarly rigorous and challenging curriculum, THEN we may catch up with the rest of the industrialized world.

Has anyone seen any specific proposal about what DCPS would do with 10-20 extra days a year?

I haven't. Kaya Henderson has been talking about it publicly for a few years. Some selected news clips:

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/education/2015/10/28/dc-schools-chancellor-talks-wusa9/74777272/
http://wamu.org/news/14/08/26/dc_extends_the_day_at_25_schools_hoping_that_more_time_means_better_scores

Thanks.

No real "beef" there, other than there was a pilot last year at 20 or so of the "not very good" DCPS schools.

Actually it was forced upon the 40/40 schools. These are the bottom 40 schools. Since we are talking statistics and bragging about the 5 years of growth in DCPS I am wondering why there are still 40 schools at the bottom of the pile? Shouldn't the number of failing schools been reduced by now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What part don't you like OP? Longer days or longer year? I personally like the longer year so we can minimize summer camp time. I would love for this to happen.

I got SO much more out of my summer camp experiences as a kid than sitting in a classroom as a kid. Why would you want to minimize that? It is worth the investment. Don't be cheap!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am mixed on this. If the "extra tim" really is to explore more arts and music etc then great. I think the reality is that its just worksheets, drills, busy work to get the slowest kids up to speed so they aren't hurting test scores. I just don't see the benefit for my kid. Maybe if the school committed to no more homework in elem school it would be ok.

+1. I'm with you. If this is just to catch up in math and reading, it can be even counterproductive, as research clearly shows that play, music, exercise, and other activities are key for development, and with a longer day/ schoolyear there'd be even less time for that.

If the extra time is devoted to learning new things, like arts, music, science...then great -- but the email didn't clarify the use of the extra time, so I'm a bit suspicious.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both is fine with me. School day could end at 4pm instead of 3:15 and the school year could go into mid-July.

So when would teachers be able to take the classes they need to stay certified if they no longer have a summer break? They return to school mid-August.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As much it could be convenient for me, I am not excited by longer days and longer year, especially for elementary school. 8.30 to 3.15 is already a pretty long day of little kids, and end of August to end of June is already a long year.

I grew up in Europe, my elementary school was from 8.30 to 12.45, Monday to Saturday, only 5 grades (1st to 5th, I learned how to read and write at 6), the school year never started before September 15 (the first few years was actually October 1) and usually ended mid June (with less than a week for spring break). we actually did great and I remember elementary school as an idyllic time. we did not have more subjects, I had no idea what DNA meant in elementary school, but we had a strong foundation in my language, history, geography and in math with some science. We built on that foundation in MS and HS. My impression is that here kids do tons of stuff but everything is rushed and does not stick. my kids was thought many different ways to do a division and at the end she did not know how to do a division. I was thought one method and practiced it and I still know how to take a piece of paper and a pencil and do a division if I need it.

I am sure kids who are otherwise on the street with little support would benefit from it, but all other kids I am not sure. quality is more important than quantity.

+1 Please share this with the "powers that be." They don't understand that common core is not necessarily rigorous! It is a lot of busy work for teachers and students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:longer year would be great--let's join the rest of the industrialized world with a non-agricultural school year and hopefully higher PISA scores.

Like what countries are you referring to? Can you cite the top five of them with the number of school days and hours? Just curious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am mixed on this. If the "extra tim" really is to explore more arts and music etc then great. I think the reality is that its just worksheets, drills, busy work to get the slowest kids up to speed so they aren't hurting test scores. I just don't see the benefit for my kid. Maybe if the school committed to no more homework in elem school it would be ok.

High school student's parent perspective here. I agree with this PP. I have not one ounce of faith that DCPS would do anything creative or worthwhile with either extra hours or extra days. They already seem to shut down the learning process entirely once the test cycles are over, leaving the last few weeks of school to movies, goofing off, and cleaning tasks that paid staff or parent volunteers should be doing. Extra hours or days will just be filled with more remedial-type worksheets and other busywork.

I would prefer that my kid have time after school for music, sports, and other activities on his own, and in the summer, to have a summer job and pursue other interests. Anyone who has been through the college application process knows that DCPS kids are already disadvantaged in applying to colleges because of inadequate counseling, a sub-par curriculum, generally inferior extracurriculars (some schools are much better than others), and very old-fashioned teaching and administrative approaches to learning. Even the top DCPS schools graduate "A" students who have somehow never written a research paper, presented and defended a portfolio of work, or carried out a long-term group or individual project demonstrating depth of knowledge in a subject. The last things these kids need are 1) more time spent on this sort of academic approach, and 2) a new schedule that makes it harder for them to pursue the extracurricular and summer activities that they need to be competitive college candidates and to become skilled, happy, creative, well-rounded adults.

I think the vast majority of "yes" responses will be from elementary school parents who want more free daycare. I remember craving that myself in the early days, but you may come to regret your "yes" vote when your child is bored stiff in an unchallenging DCPS middle school or high school. Hard to think ahead that far if your kid is in preK, but the years really do fly by.

+1 Great point! As a high school student I got so much out of my after school and summer jobs and internships.

[Anonymous]

04:27 you nailed it. Thanks for a thoughtful and coherent post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We don't need a longer school year. DCPS needs to stop having 4 day weeks. 1/2 day for records keeping? An entire day off for parent-teacher conferences that are 15 minutes long and don't start before 8am or occur after 5pm? I think there was only one full week of instruction in the month of October.

I am a parent and DCPS teacher and our conferences always start at noon (I sometimes meet with parents before if need be because I am always there by 10am on those days) and our conferences go until 7pm. This is the way it has ALWAYS been when I worked WOTP and EOTP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am mixed on this. If the "extra tim" really is to explore more arts and music etc then great. I think the reality is that its just worksheets, drills, busy work to get the slowest kids up to speed so they aren't hurting test scores. I just don't see the benefit for my kid. Maybe if the school committed to no more homework in elem school it would be ok.

High school student's parent perspective here. I agree with this PP. I have not one ounce of faith that DCPS would do anything creative or worthwhile with either extra hours or extra days. They already seem to shut down the learning process entirely once the test cycles are over, leaving the last few weeks of school to movies, goofing off, and cleaning tasks that paid staff or parent volunteers should be doing. Extra hours or days will just be filled with more remedial-type worksheets and other busywork.

I would prefer that my kid have time after school for music, sports, and other activities on his own, and in the summer, to have a summer job and pursue other interests. Anyone who has been through the college application process knows that DCPS kids are already disadvantaged in applying to colleges because of inadequate counseling, a sub-par curriculum, generally inferior extracurriculars (some schools are much better than others), and very old-fashioned teaching and administrative approaches to learning. Even the top DCPS schools graduate "A" students who have somehow never written a research paper, presented and defended a portfolio of work, or carried out a long-term group or individual project demonstrating depth of knowledge in a subject. The last things these kids need are 1) more time spent on this sort of academic approach, and 2) a new schedule that makes it harder for them to pursue the extracurricular and summer activities that they need to be competitive college candidates and to become skilled, happy, creative, well-rounded adults.

I think the vast majority of "yes" responses will be from elementary school parents who want more free daycare. I remember craving that myself in the early days, but you may come to regret your "yes" vote when your child is bored stiff in an unchallenging DCPS middle school or high school. Hard to think ahead that far if your kid is in preK, but the years really do fly by.

+1 Great point! As a high school student I got so much out of my after school and summer jobs and internships.

Kelly Miller has an extended day 2 days a week. Our extended day is one hour and only used for allowing students to participate in our SEM model in mass where they pick a class that is of their interest and then have a showcase at the end of every quarter. Each quarter they can choose a different class. MWF KMMS does not have an extended day although there are many after school programs and activities. This was started before Kaya Henderson made the blanketed announcement that all 40/40 schools would do this, which the school actually didn't. Furthermore, DCPS has never changed the 40/40 school list and now the test has changed and the DCCAS was the original marker.