Why is Murch accepting so many OOB students?

[Anonymous]

It doesn't make sense if your perspective is from the neighborhood served by the school.
DCPS is trying to deal with a system where some of the schools are completely failing -- so they will continue to try to have kids who do not live in JKLMM (and hill and and a few other choice spots) who aren't in charters have a chance at a decent-good-great school as OOB into the better performing schools. It is much harder to fix the failing parts of the system than to push the limits of the better schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now there are 60 fewer kids at their OOB neighborhood schools. How are those schools supposed to stay open if kids jump ship every chance they get? No wonder Coolidge, Roosevelt, Cardozo, etc... are under enrolled. And no wonder the charter movement is gaining ground every year. There is zero incentive to make those schools better, because all the effort is to maximize ways to shuttle kids to the few WOTP schools that are "desirable."

You must be new here too. There is an entire system in place called the lottery. Thousands try to get into schools which are not their IB schools. WOTP schools are not the only schools which participate in the lottery. In fact, the case majority of seats in the lottery are NOT for WOTP schools.

And welcome to you too!

Thanks for the welcome, but I'm not new. And, yes, I know about the lottery system, but I appreciate the lesson.

The lottery may be designed to increase choice, or to fairly distribute limited open slots in popular schools. But much of the effect is to pull kids from unpopular schools into overcrowded ones. Most of DCUM is devoted to parents complaining and worrying about how to lottery out of their IB school and into some other school, and more often than not, that means a Deal/Wilson feeder, if not some charter. What I'm asking is, if there is a lottery to get out of all these IB schools, and it's clear that schools like Murch (or wherever else people are dying to go to) will have upwards of 60 slots from time to time, what's the incentive for DCPS to fix those schools people want to lottery OUT of? I'd be pretty upset if I were one of those people who tried to lottery out, but didn't get a slot, because you just know that DCPS isn't going to do anything.

60 slots is a really big number for an already overcrowded school. 20 is one thing, but 60 looks over the top to me - like someone is trying to make a point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First I don't think anyone was nasty. Second, you still haven't provided any concrete examples. You talked about stressors including extracurriculars which aren't Murch issues. You brought up specials with no example and community which is clearly your opinion (oh wait you threw in the mythical many other parents support me). I have a different opinion. Key and Mann stay small because of housing and their lack of a viable middle school. While a Deal feeders grow in the upper grades Key and Mann shrink. You seem to want a smaller school. Perhaps Murch isn't for you. I bet Miurch is for your kid though.

Your point about the middle school is correct. But don't let a Hardy booster see it or they'll cut certain of your body parts off. Talk about Vitriol! The only thing worse is when someone points out the cost overruns at Ellington, or that it should be in a more central location of all the Marykand students there. The pushback can be fierce !

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The major issue has to be that Murch had k classes this year as small as 16. Oops! But last year they were as large as 27 (you try hiring a fifth teacher in September). With volatile IB enrollment because of apartments and embassies, OOB enrollment is the only way to plan ahead.

But why not just wait until September and take kids from the wait list to fill up any under-enrolled classes?

That would be rational. And we don't do rational in DCPS.

I think it's more an issue of money (you project a certain budget, and you need to have the enrollment match to keep the money), politics, and the major-do-whatever-it-takes-to-get-into-Deal/Wilson-card. At some point, the calculus will change, and people will prefer to go to some school other than Murch, because it will be so large, it will no longer be able to offer the kind of quality that drew everyone to it in the first place. Hearst is a fine school - I would start betting on its overtaking Murch in popularity in the new few years.

And watch as Heast gets more crowded. Hearst's enrollment has steadily hovered over 80% OOB but rather than adjust the size of the school, they had trailers and then renovated for a larger enrollment school. As IB enrollment goes up I woukd be shocked if DCPS throttles back OOB slots much at all, even if it means that enrollment is soon too large for a newly expanded facilty.

I think that Janney has been able to escape this ratchet because it traditionally had only a few OOB slots, but if there were more of an OOB expectation there, DCPS woukd be doing everything possible not to reduce those slots

[Anonymous]

This will not happen at Hearst because there is only room for 2 classes per grade even in the new school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The major issue has to be that Murch had k classes this year as small as 16. Oops! But last year they were as large as 27 (you try hiring a fifth teacher in September). With volatile IB enrollment because of apartments and embassies, OOB enrollment is the only way to plan ahead.

But why not just wait until September and take kids from the wait list to fill up any under-enrolled classes?

That would be rational. And we don't do rational in DCPS.

I think it's more an issue of money (you project a certain budget, and you need to have the enrollment match to keep the money), politics, and the major-do-whatever-it-takes-to-get-into-Deal/Wilson-card. At some point, the calculus will change, and people will prefer to go to some school other than Murch, because it will be so large, it will no longer be able to offer the kind of quality that drew everyone to it in the first place. Hearst is a fine school - I would start betting on its overtaking Murch in popularity in the new few years.

And watch as Heast gets more crowded. Hearst's enrollment has steadily hovered over 80% OOB but rather than adjust the size of the school, they had trailers and then renovated for a larger enrollment school. As IB enrollment goes up I woukd be shocked if DCPS throttles back OOB slots much at all, even if it means that enrollment is soon too large for a newly expanded facilty.

I think that Janney has been able to escape this ratchet because it traditionally had only a few OOB slots, but if there were more of an OOB expectation there, DCPS woukd be doing everything possible not to reduce those slots

You appear to be the same person who has posted incorrect information many times about Hearst's size. Hearst's renovation is not to increase enrollment, but rather to replace existing trailers. The school has had 2 classrooms per grade and continues with that. Now, who knows what will happen in the future. The incoming class of PK is around 2/3 IB now. Perhaps that will grow further and the school will eventually have to have 3 classrooms with more IB children attending the school. Perhaps what you suggest will be true and absolute number of OOB slots will be held constant. But that doesn't seem to the experience at just about any other school. More likely the school continues to have OOB students to fill available slots and only goes up a classroom when class sizes get too large from IB pressures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This will not happen at Hearst because there is only room for 2 classes per grade even in the new school.

For now. Which means either bigger classes or cramming extra class rooms into other space (or trailers), right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This will not happen at Hearst because there is only room for 2 classes per grade even in the new school.

For now. Which means either bigger classes or cramming extra class rooms into other space (or trailers), right?

Right. And while semantically correct that Hearst did not expand the new building enrollment beyond the capacity of the old building and the trailers, they had added trailers as enrollment (80 plus % out of boundary students) grew.

[Anonymous]

So if Hearst attracts more IB, will they have to have bigger classes? Can they add more classroom space?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This will not happen at Hearst because there is only room for 2 classes per grade even in the new school.

For now. Which means either bigger classes or cramming extra class rooms into other space (or trailers), right?

Right. And while semantically correct that Hearst did not expand the new building enrollment beyond the capacity of the old building and the trailers, they had added trailers as enrollment (80 plus % out of boundary students) grew.

Essentially DCPS has enlarged a school knowing that it is some distance from where the overwhelming majority of the students live. Wouldn't a smarter decision have been to modernize and improve the local schools in the neighborhoods where the kids actually live?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This will not happen at Hearst because there is only room for 2 classes per grade even in the new school.

For now. Which means either bigger classes or cramming extra class rooms into other space (or trailers), right?

Right. And while semantically correct that Hearst did not expand the new building enrollment beyond the capacity of the old building and the trailers, they had added trailers as enrollment (80 plus % out of boundary students) grew.

Essentially DCPS has enlarged a school knowing that it is some distance from where the overwhelming majority of the students live. Wouldn't a smarter decision have been to modernize and improve the local schools in the neighborhoods where the kids actually live?

Those neighborhood schools haven't had the political mojo to make that happen because the entire modernization process has been poorly managed. The schools completely overlooked by modernization are largely clustered in the poorest neighborhoods in DC. Modernization won't entirely solve the OOB issue for underserved students, but DCPS has forced the hands of those IB families seeking better options by coupling poor neighborhood options with decrepit facilities

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This will not happen at Hearst because there is only room for 2 classes per grade even in the new school.

For now. Which means either bigger classes or cramming extra class rooms into other space (or trailers), right?

Right. And while semantically correct that Hearst did not expand the new building enrollment beyond the capacity of the old building and the trailers, they had added trailers as enrollment (80 plus % out of boundary students) grew.

Essentially DCPS has enlarged a school knowing that it is some distance from where the overwhelming majority of the students live. Wouldn't a smarter decision have been to modernize and improve the local schools in the neighborhoods where the kids actually live?

Hearst used to be only a primary school (K-2) and the kids moved to either Janney or Murch at 3rd grade. The renovation was to provide space for all elementary grades, previously served using trailers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This will not happen at Hearst because there is only room for 2 classes per grade even in the new school.

For now. Which means either bigger classes or cramming extra class rooms into other space (or trailers), right?

Right. And while semantically correct that Hearst did not expand the new building enrollment beyond the capacity of the old building and the trailers, they had added trailers as enrollment (80 plus % out of boundary students) grew.

Essentially DCPS has enlarged a school knowing that it is some distance from where the overwhelming majority of the students live. Wouldn't a smarter decision have been to modernize and improve the local schools in the neighborhoods where the kids actually live?

Those neighborhood schools haven't had the political mojo to make that happen because the entire modernization process has been poorly managed. The schools completely overlooked by modernization are largely clustered in the poorest neighborhoods in DC. Modernization won't entirely solve the OOB issue for underserved students, but DCPS has forced the hands of those IB families seeking better options by coupling poor neighborhood options with decrepit facilities

Your point is vastly oversimplified and inaccurate. Google photos for Moten Elem in Southeast / Anacosta. Then Google Murch or Eaton in Northwest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This will not happen at Hearst because there is only room for 2 classes per grade even in the new school.

For now. Which means either bigger classes or cramming extra class rooms into other space (or trailers), right?

there will be no space on the grounds for trailers, it is next to houses and a public park. They couldn't add a third classroom to each grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This will not happen at Hearst because there is only room for 2 classes per grade even in the new school.

For now. Which means either bigger classes or cramming extra class rooms into other space (or trailers), right?

there will be no space on the grounds for trailers, it is next to houses and a public park. They couldn't add a third classroom to each grade.

As demonstrated by Murch and Lafayette (and counsel others, I'm sure) there is always space for trailers, if that is what has to be done. Even if it means taking up some play space (for example, the blue top at Lafayette).