The teacher is not aware of my DD's reading level

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I would be seriously concerned if the teacher "doesn't have time" to listen to the kids read. What school is this? District at least?

It's not in your area, so don't worry. I hope your schools are better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, he was reading Harry Potter. No, he wasn't reading at a Harry-Potter (whatever that is) reading level.

What the f does that mean? If you read a book and comprehend it, then that's your level.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the four-year-old's comprehension of Harry Potter was extremely limited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Are you generally happy with other aspects of the school? Any point in staying for first?

OP here.

I don't know about the entire school. It's ranked high. The teacher is great when she's involved. But she is older, her children dump grandkids on her to babysit any free time she has, so she's always exhausted, using up a lot of sick leave. Also, at school they make her do after-school care and other extra-curriculum activities which is also overwhelming for her. She's low on energy and sends pleasing emails to parents because she can't control the class or doesn't have time for reading.

How can I assess whether it's worth staying for the first grade? So much depends on individual teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the four-year-old's comprehension of Harry Potter was extremely limited.

Would you take a book and read it for pleasure if you can't comprehend it? I wouldn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, one minute of boredom, and then she could move onto other books she picked out herself? If it were me, I wouldn't find much to get upset about here, but of course everybody has their own things to get upset about.

I'm upset that the teacher is not aware of my child's situation, of her strength and weaknesses, and is not challenging her.

If the teacher doesn't have time to listen to kindergartners read, then what is she there for? It's K, for God's sake, the entire goal for K is to learn how to read. Besides lining up properly along the walls.

Really? Really? Let's see:

--Learning to take turns
--Learning to speak aloud in a group
--Learning to cut with scissors, gluing, painting
--Learning about patterns, calendars, days, weeks, months
--Counting, shapes
--Handwriting, hand strength
--Journal writing, coloring, drawing (how to draw a person - are necks there, no more stick people, human characteristics, etc.)
--Music (songs, beats, tunes)
--Social studies (holidays, important people - Johnny Appleseed, Betsy Ross, early presidents)
--Science (sink/float, magnets, planting seeds)
--Simple measurement

Those are off the top of my head from last year's kindergarten class. FWIW, my son was one of the two top readers in his class in kindergarten. He was never bored in class and I can't think of a book that would 'bore' my son. You're ridiculous. I completely recognized that the teacher was there with 28 other kids. My son wasn't the "only" one doing what he could do. Your daughter isn't the only one doing what she can do. My son learned an amazing amount in kindergarten. You're going to pass off this attitude onto your kid.

There was a mother in one of the other kindergarten classes who went on and on about her amazing kid's reading ability. Kid gets into first grade and starts doing poorly on the DRA. DECODING is NOT the standard for reading level. Her kid is now in the middle of the pack, rather than the top. Her mouth doesn't flap about so much at the bus stop anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the four-year-old's comprehension of Harry Potter was extremely limited.

Would you take a book and read it for pleasure if you can't comprehend it? I wouldn't.

The bolded statement x1,000. Here's a quick sampling of the vocab in H.Potter. A four year old - no matter who it is - is NOT getting the basic understanding of the book. Someone may be explaining it or maybe he saw the movie first but I assure you, he is not reading H.Potter and understanding it as it is intended:

tawny
chortle
snivel
apothecary
prefect
baron
gaunt
infusion
smarmy
keen
askew
luminous
palomino
petrify
hygienic
abysmal

[Anonymous]

Would you take a book and read it for pleasure if you can't comprehend it? I wouldn't.

Having been a K teacher who took kids to the library to choose books, I can tell you that they will. Perhaps, older brother is reading it and the child wants to be "cool". Perhaps, he thinks mom will read it to him. Perhaps, he is just trying to impress his friends.

I'm just a tad doubtful that a four year old can read and appreciate Harry Potter. Or, at least, most four year olds that I have known.

[Anonymous]

There was a mother in one of the other kindergarten classes who went on and on about her amazing kid's reading ability. Kid gets into first grade and starts doing poorly on the DRA. DECODING is NOT the standard for reading level. Her kid is now in the middle of the pack, rather than the top. Her mouth doesn't flap about so much at the bus stop anymore.

Absolutely true. DD was not reading especially well in K. However, she loved books and we had read to her from the time she was born. She did have an amazing vocabulary and imagination. We never pushed her to read. In first grade, she quickly passed the others and by fourth grade was way ahead, I suspect--I never asked. Sixth grade, she got the award for reading and went out to be a highly successful high school and college student.

The child whose mom was bragging in K and, even in first? Her DD did fine--as did a couple of others who were ahead of my DD in K. However, DD went to the far more prestigious college and took the tougher classes and got the awards in high school.

I taught first grade. Believe me, MANY kids who start not reading pass others--IF they have a good background of experience. Learning to read is not a race. The tortoise frequently passes the hare. And, it's not necessarily because he is slow and steady--it's usually because he is better prepared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Would you take a book and read it for pleasure if you can't comprehend it? I wouldn't.

Having been a K teacher who took kids to the library to choose books, I can tell you that they will. Perhaps, older brother is reading it and the child wants to be "cool". Perhaps, he thinks mom will read it to him. Perhaps, he is just trying to impress his friends.

I'm just a tad doubtful that a four year old can read and appreciate Harry Potter. Or, at least, most four year olds that I have known.

Or maybe he can read and appreciate it -- but comprehend it? On his own? He's four.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you take a book and read it for pleasure if you can't comprehend it? I wouldn't.

Having been a K teacher who took kids to the library to choose books, I can tell you that they will. Perhaps, older brother is reading it and the child wants to be "cool". Perhaps, he thinks mom will read it to him. Perhaps, he is just trying to impress his friends.

I'm just a tad doubtful that a four year old can read and appreciate Harry Potter. Or, at least, most four year olds that I have known.

Or maybe he can read and appreciate it -- but comprehend it? On his own? He's four.

Yes, of course. You are always right. He can. He absolutely can. I don't care how gifted he is...he doesn't have the world knowledge to understand a book like that UNLESS he has someone reading and explaining it to him OR he has seen the movie first. How on earth would a boarding school make sense to a child who has no life experience with that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

sounds like it was simply that the child brought home a reading book one time that the OP thought was below her reading level. I would assume that the OP had gotten other info during the school year about the child's reading level.

When DD started kindergarten she did not know how to read. I personally worked with her at home, every day to teach her. She was tested twice in the year - when she started and half way through. The scores were dramatically different. The teacher continues to send very easy books. This time, she explained it was due to a mix-up by a volunteer parent.

It turns out the teacher doesn't have time, as she told me, to listen to kids read, so, of course, how can she be aware of their advancement if she is not spending time listening to them reading?

I am sorry to tell you but you are a perfect example of "THAT mom". Your teacher might be not the best around but the way you treat her is just horrible, show some respect for the person your DD spents hours a day with. I was goint to suggest you volunteer, but after reading this, please DONT. If you have so much contempt for the teacher and so much tome on your hands, may be homeschooling is a good option?

Disclaimer, I am not a teacher and have a Ker myself. I dont know if his teacher listens to him read every day, but I do know that they get reassessed constantly and get praise for moving up a level (by teacher, very meaningful to my DS). Mine didnt read at all either going into K, now at level F (MoCo) comfortably. He sometimes gets an E or D book sent home too but thats because he chose that book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know, I watched a documentary about Finnish schools whose students undergo a sinlgle test throughout the entire school. The reasoning is that the teacher should know without any testing where each student is.

I spend more time with DD than the teacher. Why would you assume I don't know her reading level? I do. I don't need fancy tests to know, but just to prove the point at school she is testing for 2nd grade level.

So why on Earth would you be sending toddler books for her to read? I can only attribute that to a mistake.

I assumed - and still assume - you don't know her true reading level. Parents always spend more time with their children. Parents have also usually spent more time reading with their children. Parent have NOT spent more time reading with their children with a notepad writing down every single word that comes out of the child's mouth, including 'uhs'. Parents are often not taking the book away and saying to the child, "Now John, retell the book to me." If the parent is doing this, most likely the parent is untrained and will accept a SUMMARY and not a retelling. They are completely different.

And...just to prove "the point at school" as you so sweetly point out, if she's "testing for 2nd grade level" then the teacher is already aware of her reading level, no? Schools don't usually test kindergarteners beyond the end of the first grade level. Anyway, you seem to know everything. We were trying to help explain to you how reading levels work, but you go ahead and teach the teacher a lesson or two.

OP, the PP is telling you the DCUM rules:
1) You are not allowed to think that your child is doing anything more than "average" or "grade level". If you think your child is ahead, you must be wrong.
2) If you disagree with a teacher about anything, you are wrong, and you are one of those "snowflake" parents.

But in real life, my kid's teacher has been wrong about her reading level all year. Which I gently questioned and advised about, and she ignored. Then the counselor had the reading specialist work with my child, and what do you know? My kid's reading level was exactly what I thought it was and the teacher was completely wrong. By two entire grade levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a high school English teacher, and I used to assume that I could assess my young child's reading level. However, after my sister (who teaches second grade) actually showed me a pile of marked DRA assessment papers (the pages the teachers write on while/after administering the DRA test), as well as the accompanying copies of student-completed papers and the DRA books that matched each set of paperwork, it was clear that there is a lot more to assessing a young child's reading level than I had known. I had NOT accurately assessed my own child's reading level.

There is much more to "reading level" than you realize, OP. Yes, you spend more time with your child and read with her, and you are assuredly aware of her "level" in SOME components of literacy, but you aren't aware of all components of reading/literacy that the teacher must assess.

My sister and her colleagues are forbidden to show parents the paperwork that was used in assessing the child's DRA, but maybe your child's teacher can share? (she will be reluctant if you have been combative or condescending in your attempts to "correct" her, though).

why forbidden??

I'll ask my sister when I see her tomorrow. For now, I'll say that I agree that the teachers can't show the little books that the child reads as part of the DRA assessment because these are reused, but there is more to the situation, judging from what my sister showed me. The paperwork that accompanies each book (and is filled out by the teacher while the child reads, etc. in the DRA test) has a short selection from the exact text from the book, and the teacher writes on her version as the child reads, making marks on each word as the child says it to indicate errors, etc., and then there is a calculation of whatever this part is meant to assess (it isn't just decoding, but things such as added syllables, skipping words/lines, pronunciation, etc.). The teacher also times the child reading on a stopwatch and records the time on the DRA paperwork. The time is a small part of determining the final score, though there are many other components. Some include: the child's answer when she is asked to make a prediction about how the story might end, etc. before finishing the story, and the child's answers to other questions after she has read the story. Finally, the child herself completes written work after reading the story, and the child's written work is also factored into the total score. I don't see how showing an of this paperwork to parents could hurt, since the paperwork contains only a very small selection of text from the story: there is no way that a parent could walk away from a viewing of the paperwork with any knowledge that could enable test-prepping/academic dishonesty.

My sister showed me the DRA paperwork from a batch of students she'd "DRA'ed" just that afternoon in school. She'd taken the paperwork home with her (she came to my house that day), and she sat down to tally up all components for the final scores at my kitchen table as soon as she arrived.

Here's what I don't like about the DRA (judging by what I saw): there is a lot of wiggle room in how each portion of the test is assessed. My sister said that, in the text selection that is scored by syllable as the child reads out loud, some of her colleagues don't take points off/mark issues such as addition of extra syllables ("uh"), and there are multiple similar, small issues that mean a child's DRA score could differ according to the individual teacher administering the test. The differences wouldn't be huge, but enough to impact the final score/level to a small degree. But, OP, this is also why I don't take the DRA so very seriously: what mattered to me was whether or not my child liked reading. I never questioned her teachers, but I did encourage her to read whatever she wanted at home.

The strongest students in my secondary English classes generally enjoy reading, and they read for pl: easure. I'm not an elementary teacher, so I could be WAY off base here, but I don't believe that anybody fully comprehends all elements of any text on "first read". One notices more about a text (plot elements, depths of character development, tone, imagery/symbolism, etc.) each time one rereads the same book. Students who love Wuthering Heights and understand it the best are students who enjoyed reading it, and maybe read it more than once for this reason. For these reasons, I was never bothered when my child chose to pleasure-read a book "above her level", even if she clearly did not comprehend some major aspects of that text, because (for me) the most important thing was that she WAS voluntarily reading. Full comprehension comes with time, but it comes faster and easier to people who love reading.

B/c they reuse - they can't show the parent the precise testing. A teacher could show a book from another level that the kid won't be tested on anymore but you can't see your kid's exact write up or book he read.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Who said anything about a race? I just want my child to be challenged at school. I don't care if she's ahead of your Karla or not.

It sounds like you are in horse race constantly comparing you DD and her number if awards with other children.

Also, as to our four year old friend, can you accept the idea that not four year olds are the same and some might be gifted?

[Anonymous]

OP,

Does your child complain about school? Does she like being there? Does she like the teacher and the other kids?