DCI?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's a little frustrating that in order to attend DCI you must already win the charter lotteries for the feeder schools; it basically locks students out if they don't win early on. Talk about the cycle of poverty....

You mean like Stokes, which is 69% free and reduced meal students? Or DC Bilingual, which is 85%?

The other schools have a higher percentage of middle and higher income families, yes, but none of them are below 30% FARM. There is this pernicious idea that these schools are somehow only for middle class families. They may have a higher demand from middle class families than other schools, so their pool of lottery applicants is more heavily tilted in that direction. But that doesn't mean they don't have major appeal for lower income families also.

Not true. LAMB is well below 30%. Yu Ying is below 20%.

You are right, I wrote that without checking them all, it was an assumption. Here are the free and reduced meals percentages (2012-13 school year):

DC Bilingual- 85.5% 339 students
Stokes- 68.7% 335 students
Mundo Verde- 33.3% 237 students
LAMB- 29.7% 273 students
Yu Ying- 16.6% 439 students

Those are from the PCSB Performance Reports from last fall, which captures data from the 2012-13 school year. New reports will be out this fall for 2013-14. Combining them all, the overall free and reduced meal percentage is:

46.77%

These charters may have a lower FARM rate than DC as a whole, but they seem to me to be among the only schools in the city which are truly able to mix lower income and high income families. The vast majority of other schools in the city are vast majority poor, with a small slug up in Ward 3 that are vast majority middle and high income. I don't understand why people think it's a bad thing to have schools which are achieving this kind of mix.

Who thinks this is bad?! BTW, it's not just DCI schools. Look at: Cap City, CM, Haynes, IT, & Two Rivers.

No one said it was bad -- to the contrary they said they wanted in! The problem is that it seems the only way to pull of this race/class mixing is to lock everyone out after low-odds lotteries in early ed (or at least, that's what I infer from the behavior of the schools themselves). You can hardly be surprised that the very people you are working so hard to exclude don't support your school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's a little frustrating that in order to attend DCI you must already win the charter lotteries for the feeder schools; it basically locks students out if they don't win early on. Talk about the cycle of poverty....

You mean like Stokes, which is 69% free and reduced meal students? Or DC Bilingual, which is 85%?

The other schools have a higher percentage of middle and higher income families, yes, but none of them are below 30% FARM. There is this pernicious idea that these schools are somehow only for middle class families. They may have a higher demand from middle class families than other schools, so their pool of lottery applicants is more heavily tilted in that direction. But that doesn't mean they don't have major appeal for lower income families also.

Not true. LAMB is well below 30%. Yu Ying is below 20%.

You are right, I wrote that without checking them all, it was an assumption. Here are the free and reduced meals percentages (2012-13 school year):

DC Bilingual- 85.5% 339 students
Stokes- 68.7% 335 students
Mundo Verde- 33.3% 237 students
LAMB- 29.7% 273 students
Yu Ying- 16.6% 439 students

Those are from the PCSB Performance Reports from last fall, which captures data from the 2012-13 school year. New reports will be out this fall for 2013-14. Combining them all, the overall free and reduced meal percentage is:

46.77%

These charters may have a lower FARM rate than DC as a whole, but they seem to me to be among the only schools in the city which are truly able to mix lower income and high income families. The vast majority of other schools in the city are vast majority poor, with a small slug up in Ward 3 that are vast majority middle and high income. I don't understand why people think it's a bad thing to have schools which are achieving this kind of mix.

Who thinks this is bad?! BTW, it's not just DCI schools. Look at: Cap City, CM, Haynes, IT, & Two Rivers.

No one said it was bad -- to the contrary they said they wanted in! The problem is that it seems the only way to pull of this race/class mixing is to lock everyone out after low-odds lotteries in early ed (or at least, that's what I infer from the behavior of the schools themselves). You can hardly be surprised that the very people you are working so hard to exclude don't support your school.

What do you mean, the people we're working so hard to exclude? Nobody is locking outsiders out, with the exception of Yu Ying, I guess, because they don't take kids after first grade. Oh, and LAMB because of the Montessori. But you can lottery into Stokes, DCB and MV all the way up to 5th grade, and lottery into DCI all the way up to 9th grade.

The lack of coveted seats in DC isn't the fault of the coveted schools! In fact, MV just expanded and will again, YY has expanded a couple of times, and LAMB has, too. The ugly truth about the lottery is that siblings have a nearly complete lock on seats for the foreseeable future. Whether or not you can get into DCI, or even wish to, you should support the effort because at the very least it will take hundreds of kids out of the middle and high school lotteries. At best, it will be a model and inspiration for a similar DCPS program.

[Anonymous]

Those students may be out of the lottery for middle school anyway. I know many families at the DCI feeders who have no plans to go to DCI or any other DC public school. They are in it for elementary school and thrilled for the language immersion - and frankly like the low/lower percentage of FARMS at some of these schools- and then they are gone from the DC public school scene. Of course, time will tell all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those students may be out of the lottery for middle school anyway. I know many families at the DCI feeders who have no plans to go to DCI or any other DC public school. They are in it for elementary school and thrilled for the language immersion - and frankly like the low/lower percentage of FARMS at some of these schools- and then they are gone from the DC public school scene. Of course, time will tell all.

We are one of those families who plan on going to Deal. Hopefully our DS will be able to take level appropriate Spanish classes there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's a little frustrating that in order to attend DCI you must already win the charter lotteries for the feeder schools; it basically locks students out if they don't win early on. Talk about the cycle of poverty....

You mean like Stokes, which is 69% free and reduced meal students? Or DC Bilingual, which is 85%?

The other schools have a higher percentage of middle and higher income families, yes, but none of them are below 30% FARM. There is this pernicious idea that these schools are somehow only for middle class families. They may have a higher demand from middle class families than other schools, so their pool of lottery applicants is more heavily tilted in that direction. But that doesn't mean they don't have major appeal for lower income families also.

Not true. LAMB is well below 30%. Yu Ying is below 20%.

You are right, I wrote that without checking them all, it was an assumption. Here are the free and reduced meals percentages (2012-13 school year):

DC Bilingual- 85.5% 339 students
Stokes- 68.7% 335 students
Mundo Verde- 33.3% 237 students
LAMB- 29.7% 273 students
Yu Ying- 16.6% 439 students

Those are from the PCSB Performance Reports from last fall, which captures data from the 2012-13 school year. New reports will be out this fall for 2013-14. Combining them all, the overall free and reduced meal percentage is:

46.77%

These charters may have a lower FARM rate than DC as a whole, but they seem to me to be among the only schools in the city which are truly able to mix lower income and high income families. The vast majority of other schools in the city are vast majority poor, with a small slug up in Ward 3 that are vast majority middle and high income. I don't understand why people think it's a bad thing to have schools which are achieving this kind of mix.

Except you are averging the feeder schools school wide average not the average of its 5th or 6th grade class. You are also assuming that 100% of each school went onto attend DCI and surely there was some attrition for different reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Except you are averging the feeder schools school wide average not the average of its 5th or 6th grade class. You are also assuming that 100% of each school went onto attend DCI and surely there was some attrition for different reasons.

PP here who posted those numbers. I analyzed them that way because overall school data is the best that's available. Of course a more granular view into each individual class would be ideal, but there is nowhere public I have seen with that kind of data. If you have access to that information feel free to post it. Otherwise the data on the initial year at DCI will be available next fall.

My larger point was combating the idea that these schools are somehow exclusive in some nefarious way. I was responding to the person who discussed them perpetuating the cycle of poverty. Other posts have been in a similar vein. Is there a higher percentage of middle and upper income families at these schools than other charters? Yes. But its nothing like the richest DCPS schools, which have FARM rates in the 5-10% range. And remember, those schools are quite literally exclusive in that if you can't afford to live in their boundary, you can not go there. For these charters, you have to fill out a one page form online. Is there self-selection that tilts the applicant pool to be richer and whiter than the DC child population average? Absolutely, anyone who didn't admit that is fooling themselves. But many of these schools purposefully advertise and do sessions in parts of the city where they have fewer students so that they can be an option for kids from all over the city.

I think the larger issue is that some see schools like Latin, DCI, Basis, as siphoning off the richer families as they get into middle school. There's no doubt that that has been happening. But that process has been going on even before there were any charters in DC. People with money and options would either leave DC, or send their kids to private or parochial schools. And now these charters are giving more options to everyone, including the lower income families who couldn't leave easily, and couldn't afford private or parochial schools. It's not a perfect system by any means. But it seems to be combating the racial and socioeconomic segregation of the city better than what has happened in the past. I'm open to suggestions of better ways to achieve successful, mixed income public schools. But it's a tricky balance to maintain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those students may be out of the lottery for middle school anyway. I know many families at the DCI feeders who have no plans to go to DCI or any other DC public school. They are in it for elementary school and thrilled for the language immersion - and frankly like the low/lower percentage of FARMS at some of these schools- and then they are gone from the DC public school scene. Of course, time will tell all.

I think you are assuming a lot. We are one of *those* families who chose a DCI feeder for the language immersion for elementary school only. Could not care less about the low/lower FARMs and in fact consider it a bonus that the school is head and shoulders above any private school in diversity, socio-economic and racial. In fact, my guess is that the immersion schools attract a lot of socially progressive liberals and conservatives (we are) who can afford private school but choose otherwise for precisely this reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My larger point was combating the idea that these schools are somehow exclusive in some nefarious way. I was responding to the person who discussed them perpetuating the cycle of poverty. Other posts have been in a similar vein. Is there a higher percentage of middle and upper income families at these schools than other charters? Yes. But its nothing like the richest DCPS schools, which have FARM rates in the 5-10% range. And remember, those schools are quite literally exclusive in that if you can't afford to live in their boundary, you can not go there. For these charters, you have to fill out a one page form online. Is there self-selection that tilts the applicant pool to be richer and whiter than the DC child population average? Absolutely, anyone who didn't admit that is fooling themselves. But many of these schools purposefully advertise and do sessions in parts of the city where they have fewer students so that they can be an option for kids from all over the city.

Starting next year, there will be 40+ non-feeder OOB seats for 6th grade at Deal, and more for 9th at Wilson. How many at DCI?

I don't mean to deny that DCI feeders are less exclusive than Wilson feeders for early ed. But I suspect there's a lot of families who would happily put a ninth or even a sixth grader on a bus or train who don't have the ability to get a 3 year old to a DCI feeder. I think it's going to be pretty hard for DCI to avoid the impression that it's the most exclusive school in town.

[Anonymous]

Just because your kid might have a hard time getting in doesn't make it exclusive. You could send your kid to one of the feeders with over 50 percent FARMs rates. I doubt they have long waiting lists. Stop your whining.

[Anonymous]

"Just because we're excluding your child doesn't make us exclusive. Shut up."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Just because we're excluding your child doesn't make us exclusive. Shut up."

Different poster - oh please PP. Get over yourself. Or at least get a dictionary... the fact that ANYONE who gets in by lottery gets a spot is the definition of "NOT exclusive". There is a difference between the slots being limited in number and the slots being limited to a certain group of people. Yes, sibling preference takes up the vast majority of spots at almost all these schools (DCPS and charter), but how are these hard to lottery in to schools exclusive if the group that is already in (and taking up most of the sibling spots) is diverse, from all over DC, and was never limited in who they could be as long as they got their name pulled?

That's a serious question: how are the HRCSs with the long waitlists "exclusive"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just because your kid might have a hard time getting in doesn't make it exclusive. You could send your kid to one of the feeders with over 50 percent FARMs rates. I doubt they have long waiting lists. Stop your whining.

Typical dcum myopia. Just because a high poverty charter isn't popular in dcum doesn't mean it isn't popular in dc. tokes lamb and dc bilingual all had waiting lists at 600 to 800.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Except you are averging the feeder schools school wide average not the average of its 5th or 6th grade class. You are also assuming that 100% of each school went onto attend DCI and surely there was some attrition for different reasons.

PP here who posted those numbers. I analyzed them that way because overall school data is the best that's available. Of course a more granular view into each individual class would be ideal, but there is nowhere public I have seen with that kind of data. If you have access to that information feel free to post it. Otherwise the data on the initial year at DCI will be available next fall.

My larger point was combating the idea that these schools are somehow exclusive in some nefarious way. I was responding to the person who discussed them perpetuating the cycle of poverty. Other posts have been in a similar vein. Is there a higher percentage of middle and upper income families at these schools than other charters? Yes. But its nothing like the richest DCPS schools, which have FARM rates in the 5-10% range. And remember, those schools are quite literally exclusive in that if you can't afford to live in their boundary, you can not go there. For these charters, you have to fill out a one page form online. Is there self-selection that tilts the applicant pool to be richer and whiter than the DC child population average? Absolutely, anyone who didn't admit that is fooling themselves. But many of these schools purposefully advertise and do sessions in parts of the city where they have fewer students so that they can be an option for kids from all over the city.

I think the larger issue is that some see schools like Latin, DCI, Basis, as siphoning off the richer families as they get into middle school. There's no doubt that that has been happening. But that process has been going on even before there were any charters in DC. People with money and options would either leave DC, or send their kids to private or parochial schools. And now these charters are giving more options to everyone, including the lower income families who couldn't leave easily, and couldn't afford private or parochial schools. It's not a perfect system by any means. But it seems to be combating the racial and socioeconomic segregation of the city better than what has happened in the past. I'm open to suggestions of better ways to achieve successful, mixed income public schools. But it's a tricky balance to maintain.

Don't charter schools have count day too? In that case the info would be available sooner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:About teacher pay, I know a teacher who recently left a well regarded private school to teach at a popular charter. Is now making more. For whatever that is worth.

Private schools generally pay less than public schools. Any time, anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just because your kid might have a hard time getting in doesn't make it exclusive. You could send your kid to one of the feeders with over 50 percent FARMs rates. I doubt they have long waiting lists. Stop your whining.

If you are suggesting that it's easy to lottery into DC Bilingual, you're wrong.