Boundary Focus Groups

[Anonymous]

What is the status of the educational campuses EOTP in Takoma, Brightwood, etc.? Are these not providing a comparable MS education? What is the feeling of those in those neighborhoods about those schools? Are any of those possible candidates for building a new MS? Have they been written off?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am getting sick of Ward 3 parents suggesting what will work for my Ward 4 family that feeds to Deal. Sure like another MS for Ross and Shepherd will be similar to Deal. BS. Our neighborhood has fed into Deal for generations and I take exception of you being so quick to kick us out. Also, there is already a good MS alternative that you describe, it's called Hardy. Stop trying to sacrifice other neighborhoods because you may be in the chopping block. Fwiw, I do not think any neighborhood will get felt out of Deal, but it's nice to know that you look at us as such outsiders that you graciously allow to attend your school.

Upper Ward 3 parents are so confident that they will be fine. They have already removed Ward 4 schools, except Laffeyette, from the feeder patterns -at least in my focus group.

Well it's a good thing their focus group isn't making decision. Every level I have heard states there will be no change in feeders to Deal. OOB feeder rights is another story. Funny how many of the Ward 3 parents assume that they are the only upper class families that live in DC and they have so much political power because of their income. Their are plenty of families EOTP that earn more than Ward 3, not to mention some are even brown, gasp! Assumptions are a MF.

While, yes, your statement is factually true: there are households in ward 4 that earn more than households in ward 3, it is a meaningless statement. If, instead, you are trying to say something meaningful, like Ward 4 earns almost as much as Ward 3, then you're dead wrong. Not even close.

Ward 3 average HHI: 240,000 (a gain of 17k between 2007 and 2011)
Ward 4 average HHI: 115,000 (a gain of 8k between 2007 and 2011)

Data--emphasis DATA-- from http://www.neighborhoodinfodc.org/profiles.html

I'm not trying to plant my flag atop the family income hill. I'm just trying to root out people spouting completely unsubstantiated things. Especially completely erroneous or, at best, meaningless things.

You are obviously not getting my point. Firstly, most of the million dollar income earners (that raise the average) that live in Ward 4 do not attend DCPS so they will not move away if they don't get their way (as so many Ward 3 parents threaten). Secondly, why don't you measure the incomes of AU Park (specifically the ones that attend public) and those of Colonial Village, Crestwod, Shep Park. You will find the disparity is not that wide. Ward 3 does not have any low income (or even middle income), Ward 4 does as it's geography is large, so averages aren't going to take you that far when proving your point. My point is that the threats that Ward 3 "high income earners" are making is getting tired. These neighborhoods have fed to these schools for generations and a few miles difference is not going to influence change, especially when you're threatening to cut ALL diversity. Please don't mention how many French speaking white people live in Ward 3. So please stop trying to make up this middle school on 16th that will alleviate all your troubles by taking any brown (many rich) kids out of ALL of OUR school. It's not going to happen. The entitlement some posters have is astounding. They speak as of they have been doing EOTP kids a favor by allowing them to be zoned for Deal when they reality is Deal would have closed many years ago due to under enrollment when whites were too afraid to send their kid there.

This is a lazy retort, deserving of only a modicum of effort in response. You asked about HHI in AU Park versus Colonial Village/Shephard Park. If only there was a way to find this out. If only someone had posted the link to a website with this information. If only you tried first to disprove your ignorant hunches before posting.

From the same website as before, HHI in AU Park is 215k (and that's down from 240k in 1999). In Colonial Village/Shep. Park it is 180k. We're talking about a 20% difference, and that's with your cherry-picked neighborhoods.

I have nothing to say about the rest of your post(s). I am merely here to provide some facts in place of false guesses masquerading as facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the Ward 1, EofTP HIH poster that has previously posted to endorse the idea of creating a new working feeder pattern by clustering all the HIH neighborhoods along the 16th street corridor into one feeder---so the Ward 4 Gold Coaster who is railing against Ward 3 parents as the genesis of this idea has got it all wrong.

DC has got to create another reasonably functioning HS and the only realistic way to do it is to try to capture the higher income 16th Street corridor to do it. But they can't do it half-a$$ed. They would have to be very judicious about the amount of high FARMs areas they would zone into it---because if they reach a tipping point, it wouldn't work. They would have to present it as a completely rehauled MS---with excellent new facilities and most importantly, completely new and extremely strong faculty/administration. No rebranding of schools that the HIH East of the Park have already passed on.

You say this as a non-Deal feeder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am getting sick of Ward 3 parents suggesting what will work for my Ward 4 family that feeds to Deal. Sure like another MS for Ross and Shepherd will be similar to Deal. BS. Our neighborhood has fed into Deal for generations and I take exception of you being so quick to kick us out. Also, there is already a good MS alternative that you describe, it's called Hardy. Stop trying to sacrifice other neighborhoods because you may be in the chopping block. Fwiw, I do not think any neighborhood will get felt out of Deal, but it's nice to know that you look at us as such outsiders that you graciously allow to attend your school.

Upper Ward 3 parents are so confident that they will be fine. They have already removed Ward 4 schools, except Laffeyette, from the feeder patterns -at least in my focus group.

Well it's a good thing their focus group isn't making decision. Every level I have heard states there will be no change in feeders to Deal. OOB feeder rights is another story. Funny how many of the Ward 3 parents assume that they are the only upper class families that live in DC and they have so much political power because of their income. Their are plenty of families EOTP that earn more than Ward 3, not to mention some are even brown, gasp! Assumptions are a MF.

While, yes, your statement is factually true: there are households in ward 4 that earn more than households in ward 3, it is a meaningless statement. If, instead, you are trying to say something meaningful, like Ward 4 earns almost as much as Ward 3, then you're dead wrong. Not even close.

Ward 3 average HHI: 240,000 (a gain of 17k between 2007 and 2011)
Ward 4 average HHI: 115,000 (a gain of 8k between 2007 and 2011)

Data--emphasis DATA-- from http://www.neighborhoodinfodc.org/profiles.html

I'm not trying to plant my flag atop the family income hill. I'm just trying to root out people spouting completely unsubstantiated things. Especially completely erroneous or, at best, meaningless things.

You are obviously not getting my point. Firstly, most of the million dollar income earners (that raise the average) that live in Ward 4 do not attend DCPS so they will not move away if they don't get their way (as so many Ward 3 parents threaten). Secondly, why don't you measure the incomes of AU Park (specifically the ones that attend public) and those of Colonial Village, Crestwod, Shep Park. You will find the disparity is not that wide. Ward 3 does not have any low income (or even middle income), Ward 4 does as it's geography is large, so averages aren't going to take you that far when proving your point. My point is that the threats that Ward 3 "high income earners" are making is getting tired. These neighborhoods have fed to these schools for generations and a few miles difference is not going to influence change, especially when you're threatening to cut ALL diversity. Please don't mention how many French speaking white people live in Ward 3. So please stop trying to make up this middle school on 16th that will alleviate all your troubles by taking any brown (many rich) kids out of ALL of OUR school. It's not going to happen. The entitlement some posters have is astounding. They speak as of they have been doing EOTP kids a favor by allowing them to be zoned for Deal when they reality is Deal would have closed many years ago due to under enrollment when whites were too afraid to send their kid there.

This is a lazy retort, deserving of only a modicum of effort in response. You asked about HHI in AU Park versus Colonial Village/Shephard Park. If only there was a way to find this out. If only someone had posted the link to a website with this information. If only you tried first to disprove your ignorant hunches before posting.

From the same website as before, HHI in AU Park is 215k (and that's down from 240k in 1999). In Colonial Village/Shep. Park it is 180k. We're talking about a 20% difference, and that's with your cherry-picked neighborhoods.

I have nothing to say about the rest of your post(s). I am merely here to provide some facts in place of false guesses masquerading as facts.

1. How many AU families go private vs Shepherd Park?
2. What is the taxable income for $215k and $180k, accounting for mortgage interest, business loss etc?

You prove my point. DC officials are not going to cater to AU families who pay maybe a few thousand year more in taxes at the cost the diverse, HHI of Shepherd Park because a few Ward 3 families are threatening to leave.

[Anonymous]

By the way, talking about "cutting ALL DIVERSITY" is playing the boogeyman here. Unless by diversity you mean black. Because that's all the diversity that comes from Shephard Park and Colonial Village (again, same website). I'm not trying to say black-white diversity is worthless. But making all diversity only a matter of black or white is short-sighted to an almost unimaginable degree.

Regardless, this is stupid. Many people want diversity but they are unwilling to sacrifice the education of their children for the sake of some stupid quotas. If it's ever a matter of preparation for later academic success versus greater exposure to more cultures, I don't think you get to even finish the question before you receive an answer. (Yes, I acknowledge that diversity can help provide "life skills," but value is determined at the margin, and the marginal benefit is probably quite small.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the Ward 1, EofTP HIH poster that has previously posted to endorse the idea of creating a new working feeder pattern by clustering all the HIH neighborhoods along the 16th street corridor into one feeder---so the Ward 4 Gold Coaster who is railing against Ward 3 parents as the genesis of this idea has got it all wrong.

DC has got to create another reasonably functioning HS and the only realistic way to do it is to try to capture the higher income 16th Street corridor to do it. But they can't do it half-a$$ed. They would have to be very judicious about the amount of high FARMs areas they would zone into it---because if they reach a tipping point, it wouldn't work. They would have to present it as a completely rehauled MS---with excellent new facilities and most importantly, completely new and extremely strong faculty/administration. No rebranding of schools that the HIH East of the Park have already passed on.

You say this as a non-Deal feeder.

Not PP, but she could currently live in-bounds for Deal. There are a few Ward 1 neighborhoods that have been in bounds for decades.

[Anonymous]

Overcrowding at Deal and Wilson is not coming from all the OOB kids who have feeder preference because they came from Deal or an ES that feeds to Deal. The big overcrowding problem is that families WotP are keeping their kids in ES- not pulling out in 3rd to go elsewhere (move to the suburbs or go private) and sending their kids to Deal, then Wilson. Just look at the size of schools like Janney & Murch. They have a couple hundred more students than they did 5 years ago and these are not OOB students- they are IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ward 3 parent here who thinks it's a terrible idea to make OOB families go back to their feeder schools. If a child gets in to a school for ES- like a JKLM- they should go on to Deal with their friends. Sending them back to their neighborhood school for MS or HS is not right. My kids went to ES pre- Rhee before the OOB preference was given and it caused havoc for OOB students - many who were close friends with my children.

You do realize that Deal feeders are the only schools in the city that have that luxury, right? Less than a quarter of kids in the city attend an in-boundary school, and Deal, Wilson and their feeders make up a big chunk of them. Everywhere else in the city the norm is that kids start leaving for charters, privates and the suburbs starts as a trickle in second and third grade and becomes a gusher by fifth grade. It's very rare in DC for kids to go to sixth grade with the classmates they went to elementary school. That's true even in the parts of Ward 3 that don't feed Deal.

So forgive me if I'm not compelled by your argument.

The reason kids peel off in other parts of the city is because they do not have good MS or HS non charter options. I don't see why OOB students in ES should not be allowed to attend Deal if that is the feeder the ES goes to. I don't view that as a luxury. I don't get your argument.

[Anonymous]

I'm the Ward 1 poster from 21:52 and I am indeed IB for Wilson (but interestingly, not for Deal---my IB MS is Bell---which is another messed up feeder issue altogether. )

So yes, I am advocating for something that could conceivably alter my feeder pattern, but only if DCPS would really try to achieve it. But unfortunately, I also have the same cynical opinion as some other PPs who say that DCPS has the general attitude that crappy mediocrity in the name of equality is far better than being perceived as pandering to the demanding affluent. But DCPS needs to accept that unless you pool the HIH Eof P households together, it will be impossible to replicate another non-test HS of the quality of Wilson on the east side of Rock Creek.

And it could well be that the possibility of that happening has come and gone, given that parents East of Park are increasingly invested in the charter school system.

[Anonymous]

Yes. Exactly. The population in WOTP ES has gone up by hundreds because Deal became a better option. Come on people. The magic sauce here is for there to be more good MS options across the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:By the way, talking about "cutting ALL DIVERSITY" is playing the boogeyman here. Unless by diversity you mean black. Because that's all the diversity that comes from Shephard Park and Colonial Village (again, same website). I'm not trying to say black-white diversity is worthless. But making all diversity only a matter of black or white is short-sighted to an almost unimaginable degree.

Regardless, this is stupid. Many people want diversity but they are unwilling to sacrifice the education of their children for the sake of some stupid quotas. If it's ever a matter of preparation for later academic success versus greater exposure to more cultures, I don't think you get to even finish the question before you receive an answer. (Yes, I acknowledge that diversity can help provide "life skills," but value is determined at the margin, and the marginal benefit is probably quite small.)

No worries darling, you're not going to sacrifice your kid's education by keeping the black kids that are currently there via IB. Chances are they are on par with your little one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Overcrowding at Deal and Wilson is not coming from all the OOB kids who have feeder preference because they came from Deal or an ES that feeds to Deal. The big overcrowding problem is that families WotP are keeping their kids in ES- not pulling out in 3rd to go elsewhere (move to the suburbs or go private) and sending their kids to Deal, then Wilson. Just look at the size of schools like Janney & Murch. They have a couple hundred more students than they did 5 years ago and these are not OOB students- they are IB.

You are incorrect. Deal is 30% OOB, all of those kids are OOB via feeder ES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overcrowding at Deal and Wilson is not coming from all the OOB kids who have feeder preference because they came from Deal or an ES that feeds to Deal. The big overcrowding problem is that families WotP are keeping their kids in ES- not pulling out in 3rd to go elsewhere (move to the suburbs or go private) and sending their kids to Deal, then Wilson. Just look at the size of schools like Janney & Murch. They have a couple hundred more students than they did 5 years ago and these are not OOB students- they are IB.

You are incorrect. Deal is 30% OOB, all of those kids are OOB via feeder ES.

Wilson is 47% OOB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overcrowding at Deal and Wilson is not coming from all the OOB kids who have feeder preference because they came from Deal or an ES that feeds to Deal. The big overcrowding problem is that families WotP are keeping their kids in ES- not pulling out in 3rd to go elsewhere (move to the suburbs or go private) and sending their kids to Deal, then Wilson. Just look at the size of schools like Janney & Murch. They have a couple hundred more students than they did 5 years ago and these are not OOB students- they are IB.

You are incorrect. Deal is 30% OOB, all of those kids are OOB via feeder ES.

Wilson is 47% OOB.

It is a joke to talk about overcrowding with those numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am getting sick of Ward 3 parents suggesting what will work for my Ward 4 family that feeds to Deal. Sure like another MS for Ross and Shepherd will be similar to Deal. BS. Our neighborhood has fed into Deal for generations and I take exception of you being so quick to kick us out. Also, there is already a good MS alternative that you describe, it's called Hardy. Stop trying to sacrifice other neighborhoods because you may be in the chopping block. Fwiw, I do not think any neighborhood will get felt out of Deal, but it's nice to know that you look at us as such outsiders that you graciously allow to attend your school.

Upper Ward 3 parents are so confident that they will be fine. They have already removed Ward 4 schools, except Laffeyette, from the feeder patterns -at least in my focus group.

Well it's a good thing their focus group isn't making decision. Every level I have heard states there will be no change in feeders to Deal. OOB feeder rights is another story. Funny how many of the Ward 3 parents assume that they are the only upper class families that live in DC and they have so much political power because of their income. Their are plenty of families EOTP that earn more than Ward 3, not to mention some are even brown, gasp! Assumptions are a MF.

While, yes, your statement is factually true: there are households in ward 4 that earn more than households in ward 3, it is a meaningless statement. If, instead, you are trying to say something meaningful, like Ward 4 earns almost as much as Ward 3, then you're dead wrong. Not even close.

Ward 3 average HHI: 240,000 (a gain of 17k between 2007 and 2011)
Ward 4 average HHI: 115,000 (a gain of 8k between 2007 and 2011)

Data--emphasis DATA-- from http://www.neighborhoodinfodc.org/profiles.html

I'm not trying to plant my flag atop the family income hill. I'm just trying to root out people spouting completely unsubstantiated things. Especially completely erroneous or, at best, meaningless things.

You are obviously not getting my point. Firstly, most of the million dollar income earners (that raise the average) that live in Ward 4 do not attend DCPS so they will not move away if they don't get their way (as so many Ward 3 parents threaten). Secondly, why don't you measure the incomes of AU Park (specifically the ones that attend public) and those of Colonial Village, Crestwod, Shep Park. You will find the disparity is not that wide. Ward 3 does not have any low income (or even middle income), Ward 4 does as it's geography is large, so averages aren't going to take you that far when proving your point. My point is that the threats that Ward 3 "high income earners" are making is getting tired. These neighborhoods have fed to these schools for generations and a few miles difference is not going to influence change, especially when you're threatening to cut ALL diversity. Please don't mention how many French speaking white people live in Ward 3. So please stop trying to make up this middle school on 16th that will alleviate all your troubles by taking any brown (many rich) kids out of ALL of OUR school. It's not going to happen. The entitlement some posters have is astounding. They speak as of they have been doing EOTP kids a favor by allowing them to be zoned for Deal when they reality is Deal would have closed many years ago due to under enrollment when whites were too afraid to send their kid there.

This is a lazy retort, deserving of only a modicum of effort in response. You asked about HHI in AU Park versus Colonial Village/Shephard Park. If only there was a way to find this out. If only someone had posted the link to a website with this information. If only you tried first to disprove your ignorant hunches before posting.

From the same website as before, HHI in AU Park is 215k (and that's down from 240k in 1999). In Colonial Village/Shep. Park it is 180k. We're talking about a 20% difference, and that's with your cherry-picked neighborhoods.

I have nothing to say about the rest of your post(s). I am merely here to provide some facts in place of false guesses masquerading as facts.

1. How many AU families go private vs Shepherd Park?
2. What is the taxable income for $215k and $180k, accounting for mortgage interest, business loss etc?

You prove my point. DC officials are not going to cater to AU families who pay maybe a few thousand year more in taxes at the cost the diverse, HHI of Shepherd Park because a few Ward 3 families are threatening to leave.

NP here. As of 2012, Janney IB is 92% and Shepherd IB is 28%. Given that the overwhelming majority of the neighborhood isn't using the school, I don't think you are going to get it's residents into a lather over moving boundaries. Now, no one is going to change Janney's boundaries because it is too close to Deal. However, for hypothetical purposes if that were to happen you can imagine the ruckus parents and residents would make.