Can/should we sue? Listing lies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, unfortunately you aren't liking the answers but they are pretty consistent. There is little you can do.

You didn't get 25% less than the home is worth. You made an offer that apparently was worth it to you, based on your assessment of the house. A house is worth what someone will pay for it.

I'm unclear why you only spent 10min there. Did you go home and write up the contract that afternoon? Typically a realtor will say "We're accepting offers until such & such a time/date", often 5pm the day after the open house which means you had time to see the house, think about, maybe even go back the next day with your realtor.

We did an addition a number of years ago that increased our house from 1100 to 2200 square feet. The difference of 1,000sf when you're talking smaller houses is huge. It appears that perhaps your impressions of sizing are off if you werent visibly aware of the difference between 1800 and 2700sf? What's important, I would think, is not whether it's bigger or smaller than you thought in terms of measurements, but that it's big enough to meet the needs of you and your family. And, since you put in a very aggressive offer, it appears that you believed it was big enough.

I'm sorry you are upset. It always feels bad to be misled or to have miscommunicated. But, I think you have little recourse here.

OP Here. Thank you for a more thoughtful reply.

And yes, it is very easy to not see the difference of 225 square feet per floor if the house is divided up into many rooms. The floorplan isn't open or anything, so it's easy to assume that there is more room in other places, etc.

Yes, there were 5 bids on the house before we put in ours. I think we beat out 10 other bids.

I'm also really disturbed that the LA can say whatever he wants on the listing. Does this not bother anyone else?

No, not at all. Because everyone else understands that it's caveat emptor. Why you did not, I'm not sure. But this isn't the listing agent's fault, it's yours. Moreover, you're basing your entire freakout on estimates given to you by painters, who may very well be wrong (an error that would be in your favor, btw). How much are the painters charging you, btw?

Oh okay. So when you buy something, you should totally disregard the claims touted by the sellers, even with it's deliberately misstated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this is really bugging you, you should call a lawyer and ask them. You've received the same answer over and over but if it still doesn't seem right to you, call a lawyer and ask.

I think, however, that you bought the house and if you were in a competitive bid situation, you paid the right price. That's how market works.

I haven't gotten a clear answer yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I keep repeating myself but again, why would anyone read what I write when they can instead busy themselves with thinking of names to call me? For the record: "moron", "fruitcake", "pleasant", and "confused" have been taken ladies and gentleman.

Again, the house is listed as having 2700 sq ft of living space - 900 per floor. The taxable living space is listed as 1800 sq ft total. Painters estimated it as being around 675 per floor, not 900. I was told by my agent that the taxable living space does NOT include basement. However, given that there is a cert of occupancy, I'm thinking he was wrong and it does. And if the tax living space DOES include the basement, the painters assessment of 675 makes sense.

SO my questions continue to be: does the tax living space take into account the basement when there is a cert of occupancy?
Second question - if we are getting 25% less house, what can we do?

based on this - it sounds like the listing was right and the painters were wrong. the taxable living space is not something the listing agent could have "rigged". In most cases it is for the top two floors which would make total sense here. I wonder if calling the tax office if you could find out more about the "certificate of occupancy" or how that 1800 was calculated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I keep repeating myself but again, why would anyone read what I write when they can instead busy themselves with thinking of names to call me? For the record: "moron", "fruitcake", "pleasant", and "confused" have been taken ladies and gentleman.

Again, the house is listed as having 2700 sq ft of living space - 900 per floor. The taxable living space is listed as 1800 sq ft total. Painters estimated it as being around 675 per floor, not 900. I was told by my agent that the taxable living space does NOT include basement. However, given that there is a cert of occupancy, I'm thinking he was wrong and it does. And if the tax living space DOES include the basement, the painters assessment of 675 makes sense.

SO my questions continue to be: does the tax living space take into account the basement when there is a cert of occupancy?
Second question - if we are getting 25% less house, what can we do?

Sweetheart. Jurisdictions around here DO NOT INCLUDE basements, finished or otherwise, in their square footage. Has nothing to do with a CoI. Please get that into your head.

Why don't you go look up the assessment on the county's real estate website? You can see for yourself what's on there. I will tell you what's on mine: In all caps--ABOVE GRADE LIVING SPACE--XX SQUARE FEET.

GO AND LOOK.

[Anonymous]

another idea - look at any previous listings for homes in your area that are like yours (if there are similar homes) and see what those listings stated. redfin has older listings for sold properties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, unfortunately you aren't liking the answers but they are pretty consistent. There is little you can do.

You didn't get 25% less than the home is worth. You made an offer that apparently was worth it to you, based on your assessment of the house. A house is worth what someone will pay for it.

I'm unclear why you only spent 10min there. Did you go home and write up the contract that afternoon? Typically a realtor will say "We're accepting offers until such & such a time/date", often 5pm the day after the open house which means you had time to see the house, think about, maybe even go back the next day with your realtor.

We did an addition a number of years ago that increased our house from 1100 to 2200 square feet. The difference of 1,000sf when you're talking smaller houses is huge. It appears that perhaps your impressions of sizing are off if you werent visibly aware of the difference between 1800 and 2700sf? What's important, I would think, is not whether it's bigger or smaller than you thought in terms of measurements, but that it's big enough to meet the needs of you and your family. And, since you put in a very aggressive offer, it appears that you believed it was big enough.

I'm sorry you are upset. It always feels bad to be misled or to have miscommunicated. But, I think you have little recourse here.

OP Here. Thank you for a more thoughtful reply.

And yes, it is very easy to not see the difference of 225 square feet per floor if the house is divided up into many rooms. The floorplan isn't open or anything, so it's easy to assume that there is more room in other places, etc.

Yes, there were 5 bids on the house before we put in ours. I think we beat out 10 other bids.

I'm also really disturbed that the LA can say whatever he wants on the listing. Does this not bother anyone else?

No, not at all. Because everyone else understands that it's caveat emptor. Why you did not, I'm not sure. But this isn't the listing agent's fault, it's yours. Moreover, you're basing your entire freakout on estimates given to you by painters, who may very well be wrong (an error that would be in your favor, btw). How much are the painters charging you, btw?

Oh okay. So when you buy something, you should totally disregard the claims touted by the sellers, even with it's deliberately misstated?

1) Pretty much. That's what caveat emptor means. Or, if you prefer: Trust, but verify. This is what intelligent consumers do.
2) You have not established in any way, shape, or form, that deliberate fraud has been perpetrated here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this is really bugging you, you should call a lawyer and ask them. You've received the same answer over and over but if it still doesn't seem right to you, call a lawyer and ask.

I think, however, that you bought the house and if you were in a competitive bid situation, you paid the right price. That's how market works.

I haven't gotten a clear answer yet.

You're looking for an answer you're not going to receive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I keep repeating myself but again, why would anyone read what I write when they can instead busy themselves with thinking of names to call me? For the record: "moron", "fruitcake", "pleasant", and "confused" have been taken ladies and gentleman.

Again, the house is listed as having 2700 sq ft of living space - 900 per floor. The taxable living space is listed as 1800 sq ft total. Painters estimated it as being around 675 per floor, not 900. I was told by my agent that the taxable living space does NOT include basement. However, given that there is a cert of occupancy, I'm thinking he was wrong and it does. And if the tax living space DOES include the basement, the painters assessment of 675 makes sense.

SO my questions continue to be: does the tax living space take into account the basement when there is a cert of occupancy?
Second question - if we are getting 25% less house, what can we do?

based on this - it sounds like the listing was right and the painters were wrong. the taxable living space is not something the listing agent could have "rigged". In most cases it is for the top two floors which would make total sense here. I wonder if calling the tax office if you could find out more about the "certificate of occupancy" or how that 1800 was calculated.

OP - you should sue the painters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I keep repeating myself but again, why would anyone read what I write when they can instead busy themselves with thinking of names to call me? For the record: "moron", "fruitcake", "pleasant", and "confused" have been taken ladies and gentleman.

Again, the house is listed as having 2700 sq ft of living space - 900 per floor. The taxable living space is listed as 1800 sq ft total. Painters estimated it as being around 675 per floor, not 900. I was told by my agent that the taxable living space does NOT include basement. However, given that there is a cert of occupancy, I'm thinking he was wrong and it does. And if the tax living space DOES include the basement, the painters assessment of 675 makes sense.

SO my questions continue to be: does the tax living space take into account the basement when there is a cert of occupancy?
Second question - if we are getting 25% less house, what can we do?

Sweetheart. Jurisdictions around here DO NOT INCLUDE basements, finished or otherwise, in their square footage. Has nothing to do with a CoI. Please get that into your head.

Why don't you go look up the assessment on the county's real estate website? You can see for yourself what's on there. I will tell you what's on mine: In all caps--ABOVE GRADE LIVING SPACE--XX SQUARE FEET.

GO AND LOOK.

Don't make me vomit. I am not your sweetheart. I understand the local rednecks think that is some sort of insult. Trust me when I tell you I actually gagged reading that. Please, stick to the 1920s names you were calling me earlier. My favorite was fruitcake.

Here is what I found, for those who aren't just sitting around name-calling anonymously.

A major exception to taxable living area is the basement in single-family detached houses, rowhouses and townhouses. Anything that is below grade isn't something an appraiser will count as part of the living area. However, this says for SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOUSES. The one I'm buying is a MULTIFAMILY.
http://dc.curbed.com/archives/2013/03/9-important-things-to-know-about-appraisals-and-comps.php

I can't find anything on DC's website.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, unfortunately you aren't liking the answers but they are pretty consistent. There is little you can do.

You didn't get 25% less than the home is worth. You made an offer that apparently was worth it to you, based on your assessment of the house. A house is worth what someone will pay for it.

I'm unclear why you only spent 10min there. Did you go home and write up the contract that afternoon? Typically a realtor will say "We're accepting offers until such & such a time/date", often 5pm the day after the open house which means you had time to see the house, think about, maybe even go back the next day with your realtor.

We did an addition a number of years ago that increased our house from 1100 to 2200 square feet. The difference of 1,000sf when you're talking smaller houses is huge. It appears that perhaps your impressions of sizing are off if you werent visibly aware of the difference between 1800 and 2700sf? What's important, I would think, is not whether it's bigger or smaller than you thought in terms of measurements, but that it's big enough to meet the needs of you and your family. And, since you put in a very aggressive offer, it appears that you believed it was big enough.

I'm sorry you are upset. It always feels bad to be misled or to have miscommunicated. But, I think you have little recourse here.

OP Here. Thank you for a more thoughtful reply.

And yes, it is very easy to not see the difference of 225 square feet per floor if the house is divided up into many rooms. The floorplan isn't open or anything, so it's easy to assume that there is more room in other places, etc.

Yes, there were 5 bids on the house before we put in ours. I think we beat out 10 other bids.

I'm also really disturbed that the LA can say whatever he wants on the listing. Does this not bother anyone else?

No, not at all. Because everyone else understands that it's caveat emptor. Why you did not, I'm not sure. But this isn't the listing agent's fault, it's yours. Moreover, you're basing your entire freakout on estimates given to you by painters, who may very well be wrong (an error that would be in your favor, btw). How much are the painters charging you, btw?

Oh okay. So when you buy something, you should totally disregard the claims touted by the sellers, even with it's deliberately misstated?

1) Pretty much. That's what caveat emptor means. Or, if you prefer: Trust, but verify. This is what intelligent consumers do.
2) You have not established in any way, shape, or form, that deliberate fraud has been perpetrated here.

Oh okay. I hope you find a cockroach in your soda. Remember - you're an intelligent consumer! So intelligent, you spend all your time on the computer on an anonymous forum.........

but hey, I guess I'm doing the same thing!

[Anonymous]

Hahaha cockroach in your soda.

Remember you have to evaluate from the outside of the can that there isn't anything in that soda.

[Anonymous]

Anyone up for a game of Boggle? I'm sure the OP can be counted on to ensure the dice are in pristine condition.

[Anonymous]

So real estate listing included the basement and everything in honkey dory?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I keep repeating myself but again, why would anyone read what I write when they can instead busy themselves with thinking of names to call me? For the record: "moron", "fruitcake", "pleasant", and "confused" have been taken ladies and gentleman.

Again, the house is listed as having 2700 sq ft of living space - 900 per floor. The taxable living space is listed as 1800 sq ft total. Painters estimated it as being around 675 per floor, not 900. I was told by my agent that the taxable living space does NOT include basement. However, given that there is a cert of occupancy, I'm thinking he was wrong and it does. And if the tax living space DOES include the basement, the painters assessment of 675 makes sense.

SO my questions continue to be: does the tax living space take into account the basement when there is a cert of occupancy?
Second question - if we are getting 25% less house, what can we do?

Okay, this is my first time chiming in here....and I am going to try and be polite and constructive: lets start from the back: you are NOT getting 25% less house. There is no missing rooms from when you first looked at the house, correct? No one stole the garage, or tore off an entire floor since you put in your bid.
As one poster put it, caveat emptor. OP, are you happy with this house, yes or no? Remember, you entered into this contract under free will, under no duress. At this stage, whether the house is 2700 sq ft or 1800 sq ft, does it matter? You seem more hung up on the wording in a listing vs the cert of occ vs the legal definition of livable space. Finally, if you chose to NOT paint anything, it seems you can live in peace forever. Skip the painting.

[Anonymous]

So you think the painters are experts. Maybe they are stupid and you are getting a discount for painting services.

I am going to have my painters do the home inspection, repair my car and provide marriage counseling.