Ward/neighborhood preferences for Charter School admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Who, by name, is blocking the creation of exam schools like Stuyvestant in Washington, D.C.?

Good question, anyone? Technically, as politicians are quick to point out, we already have several high school exams schools - Banneker, Ellington and Walls. What we don't have are highly competitive admissions for these schools, like Stuyvesant, or great rigor at them, mainly because we don't have test-in elementary or middle-school G/T programs feeding said exam high schools. All evidence suggests that you can't create "exam schools like Stuyvesant" without first creating well-run (meaning broad-based efforts to draw in and nurture low-SES talent) and well-funded G/T programs, and running them for at least a decade.

Let us confront directly those who on these boards say that real exam schools such as Bronx Science and Stuyvesant are a political "non starter" in DC. Who made that call? Tommy Wells? I would like to hear real names from the current political life of DC.

Population of NYC that draws into Bronx Sci and Stuy: 8 million
Population of DC: 600,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Who, by name, is blocking the creation of exam schools like Stuyvestant in Washington, D.C.?

Good question, anyone? Technically, as politicians are quick to point out, we already have several high school exams schools - Banneker, Ellington and Walls. What we don't have are highly competitive admissions for these schools, like Stuyvesant, or great rigor at them, mainly because we don't have test-in elementary or middle-school G/T programs feeding said exam high schools. All evidence suggests that you can't create "exam schools like Stuyvesant" without first creating well-run (meaning broad-based efforts to draw in and nurture low-SES talent) and well-funded G/T programs, and running them for at least a decade.

Let us confront directly those who on these boards say that real exam schools such as Bronx Science and Stuyvesant are a political "non starter" in DC. Who made that call? Tommy Wells? I would like to hear real names from the current political life of DC.

Population of NYC that draws into Bronx Sci and Stuy: 8 million
Population of DC: 600,000

Stuy is huge. Ours can br smaller. We do not need as many exam schools as New York but we need a new exam school to get peoplr to stay in DC.

[Anonymous]

I buy that it has to start in middle school to be most effective. High school too late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I buy that it has to start in middle school to be most effective. High school too late.

Starting in 3rd grade like MoCo and Fairfax would be better. Give all the kids the Stanford-Binet only or make it application with grades, recommendations, etc like our neighbors. Even if it was more than straight IQ testing based admission, it'll never fly in DC... or it'll get so watered down in terms of PC and "diversity" that it'll be like the Walls, Bannecker, etc. - a sorry approximation of a G&T program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[

I was with you until you revealed yourself to be an idiot in the second paragraph.

This isn't about YY families; you're fruitlessly complaining about one of the most diverse public schools in the entire city. Furthermore, even if pigs flew and you were correct, who in Chinatown do you suppose is going to give up a gorgeous 40,000 sq. ft. facility + 3 acre lot for an outdoor nature center and classrooms?

Neighborhood preference sounds good only if it's an opt-in situation.

Not idiotic to think in terms of neighborhood charter preferences benefitting Hill families in particular -just talk to parents IB for Ludlow-Taylor, Payne and Miner but landed waaay down the waiting lists for YY, SWS, Logan Montesorri, 2 Rivers etc.

An opt-in situation meaning what? Charter school boards decide if they want the neighorhood preference? Surely that's how Wells will frame the law. He's among the pols who doen't want to fix neighborhood schools the only way you can outside a few high-SES enclaves (Brent District, north Lincoln Park area zoned for Maury). That is to stay stop busing in Ward 8 kids in droves, stop letting in PG County kids and add GT test-in programs. Schools could also be allowed to decide admissions policies, e.g. preferential admissions for native speakers of target languages like DCPS uses. But no, all that would work too well.

Meaning the individual school makes the decision whether or not to offer neighborhood preference (along with sibling preference, employee's child preference, language preference, etc.). Different schools already have different preferences, this would be one more option they could legally offer (but are under no obligation to). LAMB currently has different lotteries for English vs. Spanish speakers. If they had to factor in neighborhood preferences, it could make a dent in the language balance. Yu Ying has students from all over the city. Neighborhood preference would significantly favor stable, middle and upper-middle class families in Brookland, at the expense of less-advantaged students in Anacostia. If Latin were forced to have neighborhood preference, then some students who are already inbounds for Deal would now, be at the top of the pile for Latin too. Not exactly the results Wells or anyone else wants to design the law. So, LAMB, Yu Ying, Latin, and other schools that draw from all over the city have no reason to want to opt-in to that situation. Law of unintended consequences. But, there are schools, like KIPP which locates in lower SES neighborhoods but takes all comers might want to consider opting-in, as it suits their mission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some charters---such as Latin---have an express mission to serve all areas of the City. And by the maps contained in the link posted on the prior page, Latin seems to be doing a good job at doing just that. So who is Tommy Wells to declare that a charter should no longer be allowed to have that goal?

Is that what Tommy Wells is proposing?

Why is everyone so quick to assume that what is being proposed is a duplication of the in-boundary system that DCPS has? Upthread there have been at least two proposals for forms of modified in-boundary preference that wouldn't be like what DCPS does. One is to allow charter schools to declare whether they are neighborhood schools or all-areas schools. The other is simply to set aside a portion of the seats for neighborhood kids, but still have some available by city-wide lottery.

All other things equal, it's good for schools to have their kids geographically concentrated. It makes the logistics easier for parents, takes strain off of the transportation system, and makes it easier to build community.

Why is everyone so quick to assume that there will only be losers in this?

But all other things are not equal. Certain charters and future charters have significant appeal across the city, and that kind of diversity is a very good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some charters---such as Latin---have an express mission to serve all areas of the City. And by the maps contained in the link posted on the prior page, Latin seems to be doing a good job at doing just that. So who is Tommy Wells to declare that a charter should no longer be allowed to have that goal?

Is that what Tommy Wells is proposing?

Why is everyone so quick to assume that what is being proposed is a duplication of the in-boundary system that DCPS has? Upthread there have been at least two proposals for forms of modified in-boundary preference that wouldn't be like what DCPS does. One is to allow charter schools to declare whether they are neighborhood schools or all-areas schools. The other is simply to set aside a portion of the seats for neighborhood kids, but still have some available by city-wide lottery.

All other things equal, it's good for schools to have their kids geographically concentrated. It makes the logistics easier for parents, takes strain off of the transportation system, and makes it easier to build community.

Why is everyone so quick to assume that there will only be losers in this?

But all other things are not equal. Certain charters and future charters have significant appeal across the city, and that kind of diversity is a very good thing.

Sorry, I hit send too soon. Meant to add that certain high-profile schools serve a function similar to magnet schools. That is a good thing for everyone, let's not "fix" schools that are not broken.

[Anonymous]

I went to Bronx Science and the other part of the story is that these days, most of the kids who get into Stuyvesant and Science have taken expensive test-prep courses and done all sorts of other priming that means that both schools are not even close to as diverse (racially or economically) as they were when I went there.

When I went there, hardly anyone took test prep courses (don't even know if they had them for our schools back then), and also the possibility that a smart kid could get what they needed out of NYC public schools was still there. A lot of schools completely sucked and no, even the smart kids would not be ready for the entrance test, but a lot of the schools did turn out folks who passed with no prep.

Today, even the conservative estimates have it at like 70% took a prep course (and they are EXPENSIVE!!!).

[Anonymous]

So what. They take prep courses. The only person I know who never took a prep course and went Ivy for college, grad schools, law, etc is my DH and that's b/c he's in his fifties. Prep courses are pretty much standard nowadays for everyone. I'm sure kids take prep courses for TJ.

The valedictorian for my class at Stuy had to take the summer remedial course that Stuy offers because his score on the entrance exam made it mandatory if he wanted to attend. Did not keep him graduating #1 and attending Harvard. Hard work counts more at this level.

[Anonymous]

Stupid idea, how would you weight this. A charter school will just become a run down neighborhood school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So what. They take prep courses. The only person I know who never took a prep course and went Ivy for college, grad schools, law, etc is my DH and that's b/c he's in his fifties. Prep courses are pretty much standard nowadays for everyone. I'm sure kids take prep courses for TJ.
.

PPs are generalizing here. I taught math in a NYC middle school G/T program a few years ago. The bad news is that the city has indeed seen diversity taper off in most of the exam school/magnet programs in the last decade. The good news is that politicians, education reformers and school administrators have learned from mistakes made in the G/T domain. As evidence, NYC public schools have begun handing out substantive free exam prep materials, including to families of rising kindergarteners hoping to test into K-5 G/T programs. And test scores alone have never determined who is admitted to G/T programs in New York. For example, before applying to the high school magnets, 8th graders take the SSAT test, but that's not the sole criterion for admissions. Far from it. If DC dared to develop highly competitive test-in magnets, NYC could offer a wealth of experience to draw on. No need to reinvent the wheel. DC charters will never serve gifted students well because they rely on open admissions or lottery luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meridian is on U. Inspired Teaching is near U. DC Bilingual, Mundo Verde, Creative Minds - all Ward 1.

And? I don't want my kid going to any of those schools, and someone else out of ward 1 may want their kid to go there. Why should either of us be forced to stay in our neighborhood?

Wow. That's amazing! You don't want your kids going to the large number of quality PCSs in your own neighborhood, and you don't want anyone else to be able to go to a quality PCS in their own neighborhood. How incredibly selfish. The reality is that the IFF report details a large service gap in Wards 4, 5, 7, and 8. No such gap in Wards 1-3, 6. So.....we need to encourage new charters to open up in their areas with the service gaps -not Ward 1-3. If the high-performing charters in your neighborhood are not good enough for Jasper and Zoe, send them to privates. Having a ward preference will allow new charters to serve the underserved (which doesn't mean FARMs per se - only means aren't enough schools in neighborhood clusters) because it gives them a built-in list of student candidates. Reducing commute time helps families and children spend more quality time with each other. Go Tommy!

I want my kids to learn French, which is not possible at any of those schools. Someone else may want their kid to go to one of those other schools, and by your rationale, because they can't afford to live in ward 1, they should have less of a chance of going to the quality ward 1 charters. And I'm the selfish one???

Don't you worry your pretty little head about commute times (across DC, no less--not exactly like trying to cross NYC) in my or anyone else's family; if we don't have a problem with it, who are you to dictate what is right for someone else's family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stupid idea, how would you weight this. A charter school will just become a run down neighborhood school

+1000