Charter School Impact on Public & Private School Enrollments

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:13:40, sounds like you should go and start an Ivy prep charter that's geared toward athletics and having 10 AP exams. Good luck with that ;^)

Meanwhile, consider that some of the rest of us are perfectly fine with Taekwando, Soccer, Running, Tennis et cetera.

New poster. Don't be snarky. It's a fair point - why can't DC have the sort of public schools the suburbs have had forever and a day, where 10 AP classes/tests and varsity sports go hand in hand, where elite test-in programs and competitive sports (or drama, music, yearbook, whatever) on the side are seen as a good thing? Oh right, the political equation won't support it. Well, then parents should press pols for answers on how to end this nonsense. No kid has to play varsity sports, but should have the option if they have the talent/drive. Like in any normal, high-performing school system.

[Anonymous]

@13:58: Basis DC does, in addition to the aforementioned soccer, running, taekwando, tennis et cetera - offer drama, music, robotics, science bowl, debate team and many other things as well - you should become more familiar with their extracurricular programs.

But to the point,

a.) You are conflating expensive and unaffordable privates with with public schools, and are trying to present a fictitious perfect public school option that doesn't really even exist, whether in the burbs, or in DC. A lofty goal, but it doesn't actually exist anywhere yet.

b.) Ask DCPS why we can't have those schools. They are the ones receiving the lion's share of money for each student. The charters are doing the best they can, and are offering as much as they can - on half the money per student as DCPS. But that's the mechanics.

c.) Ask the politicos about why we can't have those schools, and why everyone has to be dragged down to the lowest common denominator, as opposed to allowing kids to reach their fullest potential in life? How long do we go on with interminable handwringing over the fact that kids are going all the way though to graduation with minimal literacy and math proficiency, and how long are we going to pretend the problem doesn't exist or shift the blame everywhere rather than doing something more sensible to allow kids to succeed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/impact-charter-schools-public-private-school-enrollments?utm_source=Government+Affairs+%28Capitol+Hill+emails%29&utm_campaign=0b42d1701e-New_Cato_Paper&utm_medium=email&mc_cid=0b42d1701e&mc_eid=edfe964fc2

www.cato.org/pubs/pas/Charter-School-Paradox.pdf

One section that I found particularly interesting - though charters spend less per student than most public and privates, they can paradoxically cost taxpayers more money by moving kids from private schools into public schools:

“Buddin found that charters serving primary students in highly urban districts take almost one third of their students from private schools, on average. Urban charters draw nearly one quarter of their middle school students and over 15 percent of their high school students from the private sector. Even in non-urban districts, charters pull between 7 and 11 percent of all their students from private schools.”

Of course Cato would be up in arms about this. Heaven forbid we actually fulfill the promise of a free public education for everyone regardless of income. Terrible. BTW, those parents who would've put their kids in private are still paying taxes for the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why the word "paradox" appears in the title.

It seemed obvious to me that increasing the caliber of public education would attract private schools families back to public schools.

It seemed obvious to me when last year DC charter enrollment increased by 8% but DCPS enrollment barely budged.

In fact, wasn't attracting private school families back part of the plan for improving public schools? If 70% of DC kids are low SES, but no school with more that 30% low SES performs well, don't we have to attract a large number of middle and high SES families back to drive the percentage from 70% down to 30% on average?[/quote]

The answer to your question is yes, of course. But you know the right-wingers at CATO can't stand tax dollars being used for anything that qualifies as a public good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If not for charter, we would move, not go private.

What the urban charters actually do is to make urban living possible for families.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, is Cato's position that charter schools should be privatized? Should all public schools be privatized and run on vouchers?

I would like the Cato employee who posted on this board to come back and answer this question. It deserves a serious answer, because if the answer is yes (the assumption based on his attack of any and all "public" options, then how would he propose that we educate the poor and middle classes of this country? Or perhaps he would like to see American turned into a third world banana republic?

[Anonymous]

I think the Cato poster hasn't come back because he would be pilloried by the realities and truths being stated here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who's talking about making it big in sports? It's not like Dunbar is in competition with Sidwell for athletics. This is about learning all kinds of skills - academics is a given, but for some of us it isn't enough. Teamwork, sportsmanship, working towards a common goal, knowing how to be the best and still have the admiration and support of your peers - these are all valuable skills. Fitness, athletic skills, and general attractiveness are also major advantages (in some cases, necessary ones). Not everything of value can be taught in the classroom, even at a good academic school. Again, that's why some families are focused on schools that offer excellence nurturing the whole child. Our children don't all need to be Tiger Woods, but they do need to perform well in a wide variety of situations.

+100. There's a reason that upscale American prep schools have emphasized, and generally required, participation in extra curricular sports for more than a century (and British ones for much longer,the Battle of Waterloo was of course won on the playing fields of Eton), along with Ivy League admissions. Hint: it's not because athletics are a waste of time for adolescents with no hope of "making it big" via sporting endeavors.

I went to public school in a rural New England town, where I played two varsity sports a year, and, improbably, went on to an Ivy on a Pell grant, my team sports days behind me. Even nerdy Singapore is trying hard to get the Tiger Mothers to back off so that kids have time for sports. Public schools shouldn't be cram schools. My kids are too young for Basis, but we're not feeling enthusiastic, grim as our IB MS is....

This!

There are apparently some ambitious but under-informed Basis boosters who either can't understand this point, or refuse to. Well-rounded children are multi-faceted. Yes, that means even sports. The same sports aren't great for everyone, that's why there are choices - but it is a broad array of choices. A certain class of parent understands this, without needing to consider - much less stoop to - some sort of "dumb jock" stereotype that someone here wants to proprose. Healthy and fit lifestyles are idealized - even among those who never bother to actually try to achieve them. We're thinking Kate Middleton and you're thinking Washington Redskins Linebacker washout.

Frame of reference?

[Anonymous]

Basis currently is only a middle school, grades 5-8. Does every private or "good well-rounded" school offer a plethora of sports options for that age range? Lord knows my IB elementary school doesn't offer debate or robotics or soccer for its fifth graders. Shouldn't we wait and see what they are able to come up with in the future regarding sports?

[Anonymous]

Ya know, people are really starting to get bored with this uninformed or not-wanting-to-be-informed nonsense about "oh, Basis doesn't have any sports and they aren't doing anything toward developing well rounded students" when one poster after another has talked about how Basis has lots of diverse sports, extracurriculars and activities like Tae Kwan Do, Soccer, Tennis, Running, Debate, Robotics, Drama and others. And yes, that's plenty for any public middle school - and in fact is more than lots of public middle schools offer.

[Anonymous]

+1, but I do wonder how a school can have zero playground for a bit of fresh air sometimes.

[Anonymous]

When you were growing up did your middle school have a playground or recess? Mine definitely did not. Of course no one ever thought that middle schoolers needed aftercare either so maybe different time, different place? We did still have recess in 5th grade but the boys mainly fought and the girls mainly stood around forming cliques and excludIng each other do maybe no recess is for the best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We did still have recess in 5th grade but the boys mainly fought and the girls mainly stood around forming cliques and excludIng each other do maybe no recess is for the best.

Haha so true

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1, but I do wonder how a school can have zero playground for a bit of fresh air sometimes.

I went to a top NYC prep school. We had a gym, but we didn't have a field either. Real estate in NYC is expensive. Instead, we jogged around the Upper West Side and at Riverside Park and used the fields there after school.

I think BASIS has a similar setup. There is a large multi-purpose room that serves as gym. When fields are needed, they will use the National Mall.

My guess is that in a few years, if there is enough interest, BASIS might well have a baseball or basketball team that competes with other area high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you were growing up did your middle school have a playground or recess? Mine definitely did not. Of course no one ever thought that middle schoolers needed aftercare either so maybe different time, different place? We did still have recess in 5th grade but the boys mainly fought and the girls mainly stood around forming cliques and excludIng each other do maybe no recess is for the best.

+1... 5th grade recess? That's how and when kids started picking up bad habits like smoking back in the day.