The Real Problem With D.C. Public Schools

[Anonymous]

[It's extremely frustrating having to put your hand down "so someone else can have a chance to answer" most of your life. Also, it's prohibitive to one's development to never feel challenged in class. I think that schools like Walls and Banneker provide a sanctuary where a lot of us can do our best to make up for lost time during the last four years before college, although by then, for some, it's already too late.

I'm sorry that you had such a hard time. Can you tell me why Bannker's average SAT scores languish BELOW the national average, in the low 500s, year after year? Too much lost time to make up? Not nearly enough upper-middle-class peers (with whites shunning the school almost to a parent?) pushing the school to up its game? I've interviewed a dozen Banneker students applying to my Ivy as an alum volunteer in the last 5 years and not one has come close to making the grade, and not for lack of ambition, hard work or talent. Same with Walls and Wilson. The prep at these schools seems sadly lacking - too few kids taking more than a handful of AP classes/exams and getting high scores (4s and 5s) on them. I've found it all a bit hearbreaking, these are good kids with big dreams. They just aren't benefitting from ES and MS talented and gifted programs, great teaching, and highly selective admissions like suburban counterparts. Not to suggest that Banneker doesn't offer a better quality education than the other DCPS high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did someone throw a rock into a pack dogs and one got hit? 23:03, do you feel knot coming up on that blockhead of yours.

Nope, sorry. We're not at Mann, we're at a private. And I have no dog in this hunt. In fact, the only dog here appears to be you - I believe the technical term is a bitch?

Of course you "have a dog in this fight" (to repeat your cliche)...surely you're paying significant tuition while also paying taxes that go toward education. You want to feel good that the money you're spending isn't a waste.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It's extremely frustrating having to put your hand down "so someone else can have a chance to answer" most of your life. Also, it's prohibitive to one's development to never feel challenged in class. I think that schools like Walls and Banneker provide a sanctuary where a lot of us can do our best to make up for lost time during the last four years before college, although by then, for some, it's already too late.

I'm sorry that you had such a hard time. Can you tell me why Bannker's average SAT scores languish BELOW the national average, in the low 500s, year after year? Too much lost time to make up? Not nearly enough upper-middle-class peers (with whites shunning the school almost to a parent?) pushing the school to up its game? I've interviewed a dozen Banneker students applying to my Ivy as an alum volunteer in the last 5 years and not one has come close to making the grade, and not for lack of ambition, hard work or talent. Same with Walls and Wilson. The prep at these schools seems sadly lacking - too few kids taking more than a handful of AP classes/exams and getting high scores (4s and 5s) on them. I've found it all a bit hearbreaking, these are good kids with big dreams. They just aren't benefitting from ES and MS talented and gifted programs, great teaching, and highly selective admissions like suburban counterparts. Not to suggest that Banneker doesn't offer a better quality education than the other DCPS high schools.

Pp, I won't argue with the facts as you present them and I appreciate your good intentions but your post comes across as a bit condescending. It almost sounds like you're saying, poor thing, too bad you didn't have more upper middle class students, especially white ones, or you'd have been smarter. Surely you don't mean that, right? Besides, there are thousands upon thousands of students who don't get accepted to Ivy League schools who have worked hard and have gone to excellent K-12 schools. There just isn't room in the Ivy League for everyone who wants to go there. But many of them go on to get good educations and have good careers nevertheless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's extremely frustrating having to put your hand down "so someone else can have a chance to answer" most of your life. Also, it's prohibitive to one's development to never feel challenged in class. I think that schools like Walls and Banneker provide a sanctuary where a lot of us can do our best to make up for lost time during the last four years before college, although by then, for some, it's already too late.

I'm sorry that you had such a hard time. Can you tell me why Bannker's average SAT scores languish BELOW the national average, in the low 500s, year after year? Too much lost time to make up? Not nearly enough upper-middle-class peers (with whites shunning the school almost to a parent?) pushing the school to up its game? I've interviewed a dozen Banneker students applying to my Ivy as an alum volunteer in the last 5 years and not one has come close to making the grade, and not for lack of ambition, hard work or talent. Same with Walls and Wilson. The prep at these schools seems sadly lacking - too few kids taking more than a handful of AP classes/exams and getting high scores (4s and 5s) on them. I've found it all a bit hearbreaking, these are good kids with big dreams. They just aren't benefitting from ES and MS talented and gifted programs, great teaching, and highly selective admissions like suburban counterparts. Not to suggest that Banneker doesn't offer a better quality education than the other DCPS high schools.

Pp, I won't argue with the facts as you present them and I appreciate your good intentions but your post comes across as a bit condescending. It almost sounds like you're saying, poor thing, too bad you didn't have more upper middle class students, especially white ones, or you'd have been smarter. Surely you don't mean that, right? Besides, there are thousands upon thousands of students who don't get accepted to Ivy League schools who have worked hard and have gone to excellent K-12 schools. There just isn't room in the Ivy League for everyone who wants to go there. But many of them go on to get good educations and have good careers nevertheless.

1.) Well..., I don't know about your Ivy, but at least one 2011 graduate I know from Banneker went to one.

2.) The above is anecdotal of of course. What I think the graduate who posted earlier was trying to say, and I think said it quite clearly, is that she was not supported by her peers/community until she got to Banneker. Yes, achievement can happen anywhere. She managed to do that with challenges many of you and your kin have not and will not experience.

[Anonymous]

Pp, I won't argue with the facts as you present them and I appreciate your good intentions but your post comes across as a bit condescending. It almost sounds like you're saying, poor thing, too bad you didn't have more upper middle class students, especially white ones, or you'd have been smarter. Surely you don't mean that, right? Besides, there are thousands upon thousands of students who don't get accepted to Ivy League schools who have worked hard and have gone to excellent K-12 schools. There just isn't room in the Ivy League for everyone who wants to go there. But many of them go on to get good educations and have good careers nevertheless.

Not would have been smarter but probably would have been ready to compete with the Metro area competition applying to Ivies if they wanted (as things stand, not uncommon for Banneker kids to apply, and get shot down). There would be room in the Ivy League for more Banneker kids who were better prepped, and in almost every case they'd come out with little or no student loan debt. I teach Banneker grads (at UMD in College Park) who almost certainly would have made the cut at an Ivy if they'd come up through ES and MS talented and gifted programs alongside upper middle class peers, as low-income suburban SES kids often do. Their debt burden coming out of UMD tends to be terrible. Good careers, sure, but I still don't think that DCPS should get away with serving the brightest low-SES kids so poorly. Hardly anybody seems to care about Ivy League admissions in DCPS, and in DC Charter for that matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did someone throw a rock into a pack dogs and one got hit? 23:03, do you feel knot coming up on that blockhead of yours.

Nope, sorry. We're not at Mann, we're at a private. And I have no dog in this hunt. In fact, the only dog here appears to be you - I believe the technical term is a bitch?

Becareful this bitch will bite sweetie! I am sensing fear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's extremely frustrating having to put your hand down "so someone else can have a chance to answer" most of your life. Also, it's prohibitive to one's development to never feel challenged in class. I think that schools like Walls and Banneker provide a sanctuary where a lot of us can do our best to make up for lost time during the last four years before college, although by then, for some, it's already too late.

I'm sorry that you had such a hard time. Can you tell me why Bannker's average SAT scores languish BELOW the national average, in the low 500s, year after year? Too much lost time to make up? Not nearly enough upper-middle-class peers (with whites shunning the school almost to a parent?) pushing the school to up its game? I've interviewed a dozen Banneker students applying to my Ivy as an alum volunteer in the last 5 years and not one has come close to making the grade, and not for lack of ambition, hard work or talent. Same with Walls and Wilson. The prep at these schools seems sadly lacking - too few kids taking more than a handful of AP classes/exams and getting high scores (4s and 5s) on them. I've found it all a bit hearbreaking, these are good kids with big dreams. They just aren't benefitting from ES and MS talented and gifted programs, great teaching, and highly selective admissions like suburban counterparts. Not to suggest that Banneker doesn't offer a better quality education than the other DCPS high schools.

Pp, I won't argue with the facts as you present them and I appreciate your good intentions but your post comes across as a bit condescending. It almost sounds like you're saying, poor thing, too bad you didn't have more upper middle class students, especially white ones, or you'd have been smarter. Surely you don't mean that, right? Besides, there are thousands upon thousands of students who don't get accepted to Ivy League schools who have worked hard and have gone to excellent K-12 schools. There just isn't room in the Ivy League for everyone who wants to go there. But many of them go on to get good educations and have good careers nevertheless.

And why don't you argue with the facts, or perhaps try to answer PP's good question? That is what matters, not how you perceive the tone to be.

[Anonymous]

It's extremely frustrating having to put your hand down "so someone else can have a chance to answer" most of your life. Also, it's prohibitive to one's development to never feel challenged in class. I think that schools like Walls and Banneker provide a sanctuary where a lot of us can do our best to make up for lost time during the last four years before college, although by then, for some, it's already too late.

While I agree that it's a sad situation to not feel challenged in class, I think your first statement is pretty obnoxious. You *should* learn to control your impulse to answer every question. This teaches you to listen rather than always talk, a problem endemic among so called "very smart kids".

[Anonymous]

Well said, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did someone throw a rock into a pack dogs and one got hit? 23:03, do you feel knot coming up on that blockhead of yours.

Nope, sorry. We're not at Mann, we're at a private. And I have no dog in this hunt. In fact, the only dog here appears to be you - I believe the technical term is a bitch?

Of course you "have a dog in this fight" (to repeat your cliche)...surely you're paying significant tuition while also paying taxes that go toward education. You want to feel good that the money you're spending isn't a waste.

No, we're private school people. Money is a small price to pay.

[Anonymous]

19:09 glad to hear you have so much surplus money. The rest of us have to do as well as we can.

4:33 I wonder if too many of us are thinking of SAT numbers from the old system. From their website it appears that they are ahead of the national average in reading and writing and a bit behind in comparison to Math:


SAT I
Banneker Combined Reading, Math, and Writing = 1499

SAT I Reading Math Writing
DCPS: 405 392 399
Banneker: 502 494 503
National: 496 510 481

[Anonymous]

You're actually giving Banneker credit for logging scores a tad above the national average in reading, and writing? This is an elite academic magnet high school, with an admissions test!

Far more dismal scores than I would have expected for one of several magnets in a major East Coast city (Walls being the 2nd and Ellington being the 3rd, but that's for performing arts). The math score in particular is shameful. All the scores should, at a minimum, be in the 600s, as at dozens of urban magnets around the coutnry. But as long as the city refuses to fund and run ES talented and gifted programs, or an academic magnet middle school program, no surprises here. Jeez, no wonder the affluent stay away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's extremely frustrating having to put your hand down "so someone else can have a chance to answer" most of your life. Also, it's prohibitive to one's development to never feel challenged in class. I think that schools like Walls and Banneker provide a sanctuary where a lot of us can do our best to make up for lost time during the last four years before college, although by then, for some, it's already too late.

I'm sorry that you had such a hard time. Can you tell me why Bannker's average SAT scores languish BELOW the national average, in the low 500s, year after year? Too much lost time to make up? Not nearly enough upper-middle-class peers (with whites shunning the school almost to a parent?) pushing the school to up its game? I've interviewed a dozen Banneker students applying to my Ivy as an alum volunteer in the last 5 years and not one has come close to making the grade, and not for lack of ambition, hard work or talent. Same with Walls and Wilson. The prep at these schools seems sadly lacking - too few kids taking more than a handful of AP classes/exams and getting high scores (4s and 5s) on them. I've found it all a bit hearbreaking, these are good kids with big dreams. They just aren't benefitting from ES and MS talented and gifted programs, great teaching, and highly selective admissions like suburban counterparts. Not to suggest that Banneker doesn't offer a better quality education than the other DCPS high schools.

Pp, I won't argue with the facts as you present them and I appreciate your good intentions but your post comes across as a bit condescending. It almost sounds like you're saying, poor thing, too bad you didn't have more upper middle class students, especially white ones, or you'd have been smarter. Surely you don't mean that, right? Besides, there are thousands upon thousands of students who don't get accepted to Ivy League schools who have worked hard and have gone to excellent K-12 schools. There just isn't room in the Ivy League for everyone who wants to go there. But many of them go on to get good educations and have good careers nevertheless.

And why don't you argue with the facts, or perhaps try to answer PP's good question? That is what matters, not how you perceive the tone to be.

Actually I was trying to be polite in my own tone but I've since thought better of that - the reality is that the tone was quite condescending - and yes, that is important when making an argument, very important. The pp was trying to portray herself as being sympathetic to the Banneker poster but what she was really saying behind that false sympathy is too bad you're just not as good as I am and that you weren't smart enough to go to a school with more white upper middle class people like me. My error was in thinking that a more diplomatic approach might make her think more carefully about how she expresses herself. She might not want to come across as such a superior snob.

[Anonymous]

Actually I was trying to be polite in my own tone but I've since thought better of that - the reality is that the tone was quite condescending - and yes, that is important when making an argument, very important. The pp was trying to portray herself as being sympathetic to the Banneker poster but what she was really saying behind that false sympathy is too bad you're just not as good as I am and that you weren't smart enough to go to a school with more white upper middle class people like me. My error was in thinking that a more diplomatic approach might make her think more carefully about how she expresses herself. She might not want to come across as such a superior snob.

I'm the PP and I was sympathic to the Banneker poster who had such a hard time before HS. What is this, the thin skinned Olympics? I'm not in fact a white person in NW, I'm an Asian person in NE from a working class family who finds the apartheid education on offer at Banneker creepy and unproductive. The whole point of the anonymity of DCUMBD is that you can be honest in your take on situations. I've spent a lot of time at Banneker interviewing kids for my Ivy over the past decade and, in the process, have grown increasingly dissillusioned with how the school runs as compared to TJ in Alexandria and the Blair magnets in Mo. Co.. What I've seen in many suburban schools is that bright minority kids are identified as talented and gifted, and tapped to participate in advanced learning programs with middle-class peers, very young. Without TAG programs of its own, DCPS seems happy not to provide much challenge to such kids until the AP level. Poor suburban kids of exceptional ability tend to land in rigorous magnet MS and HS programs and, thus, as a general rule, soar and make it to national 5-star colleges. At Banneker, good intentions aside, it's catch as catch can and a few honors classes in the hopes of getting such kids to area state schools and small liberal arts colleges. I don't like it, I don't think it's good enough for these kids, but if you do, you're entitled to your views. To each his or her own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did someone throw a rock into a pack dogs and one got hit? 23:03, do you feel knot coming up on that blockhead of yours.

Nope, sorry. We're not at Mann, we're at a private. And I have no dog in this hunt. In fact, the only dog here appears to be you - I believe the technical term is a bitch?

Of course you "have a dog in this fight" (to repeat your cliche)...surely you're paying significant tuition while also paying taxes that go toward education. You want to feel good that the money you're spending isn't a waste.

No, we're private school people. Money is a small price to pay.


And yet spend your time debating the state of public schools on the DCPS board insulting people with dogs in the hunt, many of whom are not as privileged as you and have no other options. What motivates your mean-spiritedness?

In the event that we conclude that DCPS is not workable, which private(s) do your kids attend?