Ash Wednesday: Feel so weird keeping ashes on, but feel guilty washing them off!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am an atheist, by the way.

I feel sorry for this poster.

Why? Because she made herself look like an ass misquoting Dawkins? Or because she seems unable to express her own philosophy cogently (c.f. her misunderstanding of Dawkins and agnosticism/atheism), so instead she relies on spittle-flecked invective?

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how Dawkins fits into an Ash Wednesday thread.

I am losing my patience with ranting atheist posters. I also have little patience with religious posters who claim or assume there is no morality without religion.

To the atheist and agnostic posters: isnt free thought just that....free? It's a tad ironic to hijack a thread about a basic religious observation that's not hurting you in any way, just to tell them they should think like you? If you enjoy the ability to be free from religion, you could observe the same principles. I know that this is not something all religious folk offer to us, but most of them do. Know when to speak up and when to STFU. No one is knocking on your door with this thread. No one is trying to legislate Ash Wednesday observance with this thread. It really doesn't affect us in the slightest.

[Anonymous]

I'm the one who first brought up Dawkins. I'm a believer, although not a catholic.

My goal, which may have been a little opaque, was to point out the illogic of the atheist's own position, and that even her hero Dawkins doesn't go as far as she does. Then she misquoted Dawkins and I corrected her by providing the full context for the quote, which was an unfortunate side-show, I admit. But I hope it was instructive to her.

I totally agree with you, that atheists who tell the rest of us "what to believe" are just ludicrous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, but I fail to see how Dawkins fits into an Ash Wednesday thread.

I am losing my patience with ranting atheist posters. I also have little patience with religious posters who claim or assume there is no morality without religion.

To the atheist and agnostic posters: isnt free thought just that....free? It's a tad ironic to hijack a thread about a basic religious observation that's not hurting you in any way, just to tell them they should think like you? If you enjoy the ability to be free from religion, you could observe the same principles. I know that this is not something all religious folk offer to us, but most of them do. Know when to speak up and when to STFU. No one is knocking on your door with this thread. No one is trying to legislate Ash Wednesday observance with this thread. It really doesn't affect us in the slightest.

Best post on this thread. Thank you, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11:38 - LMFAO!!

NP here: I am a practicing Catholic who, as an individual, supports gay marriage, uses birth control, believes in a woman's right to chose, engages in IVF treatments, has had unmarried sex, finds child molestation repulsive, and votes how I choose. And, even though my personal positions may be at odds with the "official" Church positions or practices, I have no plans to ever switch religions. I am was raised going to a Catholic Church and have always felt comfortable there and really don't feel compelled to change the way I worship. I hate it when bigots like this nut job crackpot demand that more progressive Catholics like me must jump ship from the religion and culture I was raised in. I wonder why he/she feels the need to peer inside my mind and heart to judge my sense of morality. Seems a tad intrusive! And arrogant. Go find your own inner peace, dude, and quit judging my mind and heart.

You know what's arrogant? The Catholic church trying to tell me who to live with, who to marry, and how to manage my own body. I don't care at all about what church you go to or what is in your heart and mind. I care about the fact that your church lobbies congress and pressures parisioners to vote for things I find to be discriminatory. I find it arrogant that your church thinks that they should be able to dictate to me who I can and cannot marry, though I am not nor will I ever be Catholic. Of course Catholics don't have a monopoly of this kind of religious arrogance, but they are first class practitioners of it. If it was only about what was in your heart and mind, then what would I care!? I'm not trying to get in the way of other people practicing their religion, but I do not understand why you demand respect for the position your church takes on these matters when it is SO HURTFUL to so many people and discriminatory.

And no, no one on this post has begun to defend the church's position on gay people and how they reconcile that within themselves. I guess because you aren't gay and it doesn't effect you, you just roll with it? Ypu take the good with the bad, I hear that...but how bad does bad have to be before it starts to poison even the good?

[Anonymous]

Back to the original Post . . . I say wear them. People are staring probably b/c they forgot it was Ash Wed. until they see about 10 ppl walking around with "dirt" on their foreheads. Then the lightbulb . . . . aha!

I would only caution those wearing them to remember you're wearing them before you do/say something that contrasts with the day, such as bitch someone out over a very insignificant thing. That happened to me one day (wasn't moving fast enough in the lunch line and that, apparently, warranted a verbal thrashing) by a woman proudly sporting her ashes. Not a very good model for your faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You know what's arrogant? The Catholic church trying to tell me who to live with, who to marry, and how to manage my own body. I don't care at all about what church you go to or what is in your heart and mind. I care about the fact that your church lobbies congress and pressures parisioners to vote for things I find to be discriminatory. I find it arrogant that your church thinks that they should be able to dictate to me who I can and cannot marry, though I am not nor will I ever be Catholic. Of course Catholics don't have a monopoly of this kind of religious arrogance, but they are first class practitioners of it. If it was only about what was in your heart and mind, then what would I care!? I'm not trying to get in the way of other people practicing their religion, but I do not understand why you demand respect for the position your church takes on these matters when it is SO HURTFUL to so many people and discriminatory.

And no, no one on this post has begun to defend the church's position on gay people and how they reconcile that within themselves. I guess because you aren't gay and it doesn't effect you, you just roll with it? Ypu take the good with the bad, I hear that...but how bad does bad have to be before it starts to poison even the good?

How can you miss this basic fact: if you're not a Catholic, the Church isn't telling you who to marry or how to manage your body. The Catholic Church's rules are for Catholics, not for you.

Geez. It's like, in your mind you've created an evil big brother that is persecuting you. Just persecuting you, and you alone. Are you always this paranoid? Because it's not all about you, honey. Obviously you have the same problem on the internet. You come onto a thread that has nothing to do with you (Ash Wednesday) and you start making it all about you.

Also, it's a democracy here in the US, right? Lots of groups lobby for things I disagree with. That doesn't mean I spout vile bigotry every time I see a DCUM thread with the words "tea party" in it.

It's also disturbing that several people here have said that they are trying to change the Church from within - but you ignore their posts. You dismiss what's in their hearts and minds as being irrelevant. But these are exactly the people who are on your side, and instead of mocking them you should be encouraging them.

[Anonymous]

How can you miss this basic fact: if you're not a Catholic, the Church isn't telling you who to marry or how to manage your body. The Catholic Church's rules are for Catholics, not for you.

Geez. It's like, in your mind you've created an evil big brother that is persecuting you. Just persecuting you, and you alone. Are you always this paranoid? Because it's not all about you, honey. Obviously you have the same problem on the internet. You come onto a thread that has nothing to do with you (Ash Wednesday) and you start making it all about you.

Also, it's a democracy here in the US, right? Lots of groups lobby for things I disagree with. That doesn't mean I spout vile bigotry every time I see a DCUM thread with the words "tea party" in it.

It's also disturbing that several people here have said that they are trying to change the Church from within - but you ignore their posts. You dismiss what's in their hearts and minds as being irrelevant. But these are exactly the people who are on your side, and instead of mocking them you should be encouraging them.


So you really think the church's positions on gay marriage (to pick one example) are just for Catholics?


From the Washington Post 2/28/2011 Bishop Wuerl's statement:

The recent decision of a slim majority of Maryland senators to pass legislation that would drastically alter our state's longstanding definition of marriage is regrettable. We believe such a change would lead to the erosion of the family, our society's most valued and important social unit. The measure would dismantle our state's legal recognition of the true procreative nature of marriage, and contains inadequate conscience protections for religious institutions and individuals. As a result, the measure would jeopardize the religious freedom of all those who cannot in good conscience recognize marriages that conflict with their sincerely held religious beliefs.

We must not allow our legislature to redefine marriage. The word marriage describes the commitment of a man and a woman to come together for life with the possibility of generating and educating children. This is not to say that some people over the ages have not come together in a variety of ways, physical, financial and social. But these various unions have always had other names because they are not marriage.

Your efforts must not abate. The time for continued and urgent action is now.

[Anonymous]

"Catholics like myself are increasingly alarmed at how the Vatican is asserting itself into the United States," said Stasek, who also serves as the director of California Catholics for Free Choice.

And it comes in the wake of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops' controversial crackdown against sterilization last month.

Meeting in Atlanta, the bishops voted 209 to 7 to declare sterilization "intrinsically evil" and put tubal ligation and vasectomy on the same footing as abortion and euthanasia, both already condemned by the church.

That vote was prompted by Vatican objections to loopholes in cooperative agreements with non-Catholic hospitals purchased by Catholic health care chains, and could affect millions of non-Catholic patients.

"This is really being driven by the Vatican," Stasek said. "They are reaching into American institutions and trying to bring them into line with very conservative positions that are not representative of American values."

[Anonymous]

For those Catholics who pick and choose:


The public-relations campaigns of the Catholic Church's rivals do not impress Archbishop Cardoso Sobrinho. He told TIME that the Vatican rejects believers who pick and choose their issues. Rome "is not going to open the door to anyone just to get more members," he said after comparing abortion to the Holocaust. "We know that people have other ideas, but if they do, then they are not Catholics. We want people who adhere to God's laws."



Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1883598,00.html#ixzz1FmuGLINo

[Anonymous]

Not to encourage the ranting poster, but the reversal of opinion and promises by Sam Arora is a good example of the church controlling legislation. Arora accepted loads of money from the LGBT community and has now said he will vote against the gay marriage legislation in Maryland due to pressure from his church. But, this doesn't have much to do with Ash Wednesday observances.

[Anonymous]

the Catholic bishops have quietly built a sophisticated legal, public relations and lobbying team that's waded aggressively into the health care fight. At the same time, the Roman Catholic Church, which operates health insurance plans and hospitals all over the country, has a substantial financial stake in the debate.

"The reality is that they have a horse in this race, and it's a financial horse," said Jon O'Brien, president of Catholics for Choice, which backs abortion rights. Indiana alone has 35 Catholic hospitals and 26 other Catholic health care facilities, according to O'Brien. Catholic Charities, the bishops' service arm, gets 67 percent of its income from government funding, he noted, an amount that he said totaled $2.6 billion in 2008.


But the bishops' direct role crafting the House health care bill's abortion language raised eyebrows both on and off Capitol Hill. Following personal calls and visits to Democratic leaders and lawmakers, the bishops won approval for an amendment introduced by Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., and other conservatives that would block the insurance plans under the bill's public option from covering elective abortions.

The Catholic hierarchy has mightily resisted pressure from its laity to open its books as it doles out tens of millions in sexual abuse lawsuit settlements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, but I fail to see how Dawkins fits into an Ash Wednesday thread.

I am losing my patience with ranting atheist posters. I also have little patience with religious posters who claim or assume there is no morality without religion.

To the atheist and agnostic posters: isnt free thought just that....free? It's a tad ironic to hijack a thread about a basic religious observation that's not hurting you in any way, just to tell them they should think like you? If you enjoy the ability to be free from religion, you could observe the same principles. I know that this is not something all religious folk offer to us, but most of them do. Know when to speak up and when to STFU. No one is knocking on your door with this thread. No one is trying to legislate Ash Wednesday observance with this thread. It really doesn't affect us in the slightest.

I'm an atheist who simply posted about noticing people with ashes on their forehead last year, and recognizing it and not thinking of it because of having Catholic family members. No angry ranting involved.

I think one or two atheist or theist trolls isn't enough to paint an entire group.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

It's always interesting to me that people rant and rave that religious groups and people of faith shouldn't lobby according to their beliefs. Never mind that lobbying by non-faith groups and atheists can result in changes in our laws that the rest of us might not like.